Alan Kang'ethe — transcript

Westlands Florists & Garden Centre

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:05 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 66 of the African Do podcast. It's a privilege to have you with us today. I'm very happy to have an old friend been friends for a while. He's been part of my career for a very long time from the very beginning. Alan K of Westland Florists and Garden Center. Alan, welcome to the African Do podcast.
Thank you very much, Leonard. It's a pleasure to be with you again.
Excellent. Alan, you're our first florist. We have not had anyone and I think it's it's a great um it's I consider it a great privilege to have you on the podcast. One because Kenya is has such a rich history with flowers. Yeah.
Probably greater than the average Kenyan knows, you know, in terms of what flowers mean to the Kenyan economy, what means to the Kenyan uh people. So it would be a great privilege to talk to you about uh running a flower business in a Kenyan context. So Karibana,

1:04
thank you so much.
Good. Allan, let's maybe let's start with your background, you know,
uh who are you, where were you born, what was your early life uh like and as we transition into into the business.
Thank you. Um I am now 62, married uh with uh three daughters. Mhm.
Two adult daughters, one teenager. And um my line has been ever since I came into my education line. I always had a passion for agriculture for flowers.
But I can say I'm not the beginner. I'm the third generation of a family where my grandfather was a horiculturist in the 1950s. Mhm.
He used to grow his vegetables and he used to from Kambu and take them to Nairobi in the evening and in the morning he would buy bread and bring it back to Kiamu on a bicycle and sell it when people are waking up. And he then he saw that the mongus the that time it was the colonial ones who were there that time. He noticed that they were they were buying flowers and everything and he had a passion for flowers. So he started

2:15 growing flowers for them. So most of the time you take flowers to city market before independence, sell them. I think there was only one bakery in Nairobi at that time, buy the bread and go up with it back to Kimu. Then he had 11 kids and out of 11 kids, two of them happened to have picked up on the business and liked it. And my dad was the one who was the eldest. He's the one who took most of their passion in it. much as he was a civil servant all his life. He started growing flowers and um started selling them and together with my mom in 1969 they were able to open their first shop and you know my mom was running it because obviously my dad was working for government and uh I also out we have uh se six siblings out of my six siblings um we start the we all enter three of us entered the family business. I have a sister who does flowers at a different

3:10 company and me and my brother work together now in the family business which my mom and dad my late mom and dad had started and uh basically that's why I'm here so I don't want to take the credit for what people know it's a family thing.
So le let's maybe drill back maybe let's spend some time discussing your grandfather you know because that
clearly is the entrepreneurial seed in the family. Yeah, because he was not just doing flowers,
but he was doing flowers and ve vegetables first, then flowers, and then he would pick
uh bread and go back and sell.
Yes. Yes.
But maybe um from your interaction with with with him, maybe you can give us a bit of a glimpse into that time, you know, how was it, you know, for him? Where did he he grew some of the flowers, but where was he selling them? Where would he bring them from? what you what you discussed with him.

4:03
Now I was born in 1964. So I was rather too young to to have known my my to come to my senses to really know my grandfather in that line. This is the history that I was given by my dad.
Okay.
And u my dad had to help my grandfather bring up the 11 kids.
Mhm.
He
cuz your dad is a firstborn.
He's a firstborn.
Yes. And uh so when he saw what uh they were all forced all 11 of them before they went to school they would have to go down to the river and bring get water and bring it and fill up the tanks for for my grandfather so that when they in school you know that's the water that would be used for getting his tomatoes his flowers and everything.
But in the process he developed the interest.

4:47
Yes.
Yeah. And that that so my dad is the one who has given me most of the story about my grandfather.
Okay.
Yeah. But he was one of those people you you'd call a progressive farmer at that time.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay. Cuz he was irrigating at a time when there were few people irrigating because if you are filling tanks and irrigating at that time.
Yeah. So you said that your your your dad then and and mom then set up a shop. Where was this shop? This shop for the older generation would know it was just next to City Market in in Nairobi in town
in 1969 opposite the post bank building.
There was a a a building there. That's where we started. Okay.
The shop was before was owned by a European lady

5:32
and she was going back
and my dad just went to her and said that I would like to buy you out and you know
it was a florist shop. The European lady was running a shop. So he bought it.
He bought it.
Okay. He told me he bought it for about 200 shillings which was a lot of money that time.
Yes.
1969 he had to take bank loans and you know really stretch himself to gather that 200 B but he managed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
So your mom and dad um your dad is working as a civil servant and of course helping uh with the flourish shop but your mom is full-time running the shop.
My mom was not really fulltime. Yes,
they had to employ some people. She was on and off because she was also a teacher.

6:12
Okay.
But on her off days and everything, she should be there. But after some time when the shop was going well,
she returned now. And she's the one who has been in the shops.
Mhm.
Yeah. Till till her the time she rested 20 years ago.
Okay. Yeah. Okay.
And of their six children,
Yeah.
three of you, you said,
Yes.
went into into um
the florist business.
Yes. Yes.
So when does Westlands florist and garden center come into being?
Well, my dad was also doing landscaping on the side and uh he had a passion for it. So in the morning he would wake us up uh take us to school primary school which which was in town.
He would drop us to school at 6:00, go with the guys he was working with and see he had several sites he was doing landscaping and by 8:00 he had to be in the office. Yes. And then in the evening uh he would collect us uh from school. I think we used to school used to go up to around 3:00 those days 3:30

7:13
and we would go around his sites. He would see how the work was done and then we would all go back to Kiamu.
So he it was he was juggling a lot.
Yes.
Because he still had to help my grandfather also bring up the 11 kids. No, the 10 kids because he was the 11.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay.
And and when is Westlands? When the Westlands florist and garden center
in 1983 when sit center was being opened my father happened to have done landscaping for the owner of sit center and they became very good
at his home.
At his home yes
the late Mr. Bachubai Sha
yes
they became very close friends and when he told him about the idea that he's opening a mall in Westlands and everything

7:55
my dad said uh I would like a shop in that place. So he was shown the plans and he he he he showed you know he chose off plan that shop where we are up to today.
Wow.
That is how it started. So
and that that I guess that's a great time to introduce the shop because
like you so you have been a tenant in Sid Center from 1983.
Oh yes.
And that's now the beginning of that was the shop that became Westlands Flores and Garden Center.
Yes.
And it's right there. I mean I've I've seen that from the very beginning because I have memories of going to sed center as a child
okay
and walking around this place theumi used to be downstairs in the basement and then uh my dad took us there for the first time I think in early 1984

8:41
and so we're there and I remember the shop the florist shop because it was right at one of the entrances
and still is there today.
Yes.
Okay.
So that opens in 1983.
Yes. By that time, are you still in school?
Yes. Um I my dad told me he after I saw I really developed a passion for flowers and growing things. He told me there's no way you're going to make money unless you're going to go into this full force. You now you're not going to do it at my level. You have to take it up to um to become an expert in farming and you know flower growing and all that. So he encouraged me and I went and did my degree in horiculture and in 1990 I graduated.
So where did you do the degree?

9:28
In Egaton University at Sorro.
Mhm.
Uh and I was very lucky also. I also when I graduated I also graduated with a wife from there who who was doing animal production.
Yes.
Who now is a florist.
Yes.
Although her specialty is in animal production.
Yes. But we work together as as as as once you start growing all these things,
you'll find that you need the animals, you need the animal manure.
Yes.
To put in the flowers and he also needs flowers because she's the one who runs one of the branches.
So we work together in in that kind of line.
Okay.
So um also my dad told me that I need to go and see the world and really understand the bigger perspective of what his vision is about the company. Now Westland Forest is owned by a bigger company called Garden Center Limited. Mhm.

10:14
Now, garden center grows, we also grow a lot of our own stuff, the flowers, the the potted plants,
and that was he wanted me to go and see how it's done in Holland. I've been to Holland three times.
I've been to America. I've been to Germany. And all these times I was just trying to dig in and know more about how how how far we can take this business. He wanted me to have a bigger picture
so that I don't come with just a a small closed up mind. He says, "We have reached our limit, but you're the one to push it to the next level."
So 1990, you now graduate. Yeah.
And how what how do you end up in Holland or how do you go to Holland? Do you just go for uh or do you go and work there a bit or how what maybe just to help us understand what you went to see in Holland and how it inspired you to come and set up your outfit in Kenya?

11:08
Yeah. Along the line I I I came to realize that the the number of the varieties of plants that we have in this in our country is very little is very low
and we needed to up and increase the varieties. You know customers kept on coming who are international customers. I need this kind of plant. I need this kind of plant.
So I had to go and look. I had been told that the Dutch are number one in um the growing of everything.
So I had to go I went there to housem and I was able to start importing. I imported for quite a number of years. Yes.
And we were able to bring in the the quite a lot of varieties which were not available in this country.
You know, you follow the standard procedure where you need to get an invoice of what you're bringing in. You go to the government regulatory board kees

11:54
they would give you the license, the permits to bring them in. Once the plants come in, they inspect them for diseases because there are certain plants you can't bring into the country. And that way I was able to build in a very big collection. Now we have over 200 types of plants which we grow.
Okay.
And that is where more you know me more from the shop but
behind the scenes I'm more of a farmer which you don't know. Okay.
So today I can introduce another hat.
Yes.
So I have to produce a lot of plants for the shop and flowers for the shops.
Okay.
And that's where that's the part you don't see. That's why you say sometimes you don't see me at the shop.
I'm busy at the background.

12:27
Okay. Then let's maybe delve a bit into the garden center and speak about that a bit. Yeah.
So, the garden center is basically um what would I call it? It's like a plant and landscaping company. Is that correct?
Exactly.
Yes.
And let's speak about that a bit. What goes into setting up a business like that? You you told us about your foray into Holland
and uh bringing in plants on demand.
So, what's the nature of the market? Who are your customers? Apart from the individual people who like plants,
what does maybe the corporate side of that look like? what does the landscaping side of that look like so that we can understand the nature of the business a bit better.
Okay. Wow. Um I can just start by saying unfortunately none I was not I did I started a bit of landscaping

13:14
but then I realized you cannot be growing and selling and doing landscaping. Okay. So at a point
the landscaping business was taking too much of my time away that one that one died.
Uh so I focused more on growing. Now growing requires you to understand the plants you're growing. Most of the plants which we grow in are from Europe. So some of them want to be in a very cool uh environment which you don't get in Nairobi not even in Kambu. So we as a family we invested in land in Kinangop that is near the next to the Abadas
where the weather is nice and cool and lovely and most of the flowers which have come from Europe grow very well there. things like hydrangeas and most of the stuff we sell now they feel like the plants feel like they're in Europe there because each plant has its own requirement

14:03
and you can't force it. There are some plants which
are like the ones that grow in hot places, tropical places will not grow again now in Ginagop. So we had to get more land now in Kambu.
Mhm.
And uh so we farm in Kamu and we also farm in Kinagop but there we only try to keep plants according to what the environments which they they like.
Okay. So in corporates uh yes we do a lot of corporates and that is now more at the shop and um we do have many offices we service we do lots of weddings and functions but I would say uh my main business and which I love very much is uh one-on-one with customers and right now uh the way the things have moved and all the competition that has grown up most of the business is working with a one-on-one customer the guys who come in

14:56 who are dating We have a very big population of genesis alphas who are now reached a point of where they cing and everything
and they need their flowers they want a small bouquet now that's what really keeps us going and I think even if you look at industry and everything started coming to smaller packaging and everything because that's where the money is
I think we met when I was doing a lot of corporates and everything and big events
yes
I think the the competition became too fierce and too many people under cutting So I decided now let me focus into a place where I have to get known
build up a big customer base and really see how the market is
try and and and bring in products that will suit the market that we have. I not work from my my listen to the customer

15:43
and give the customer
what they want
what they want and especially go for the middle class and the younger ones don't go for the very rich big corporates that's that's not where the money is.
The money is with the masses. It's in the masses. Exactly. You've gotten my point.
So that's where I am now at.
Okay.
Yeah.
Now maybe you by virtue of being in this industry for as long as you've you've had
and being a third generation florist, let me say that or in the floric culture space.
Mhm.
You you must have a very good pulse on Kenya and flowers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And Kenya is a large exporter. probably one of the largest in the world
exporter of flowers. Yeah. Now having a front row seat to this as both a consumer I'm sure you don't grow 100% of all your flowers. There must be some that you buy you know.

16:37
So maybe you can tell us about
the floor the flower space in a Kenyan context
because you have greater visibility of it than me for example who just occasionally buys flowers. Um though I must say my wife loves flowers. In fact the other day I was accused of not of not giving enough flowers. Maybe something I need to work on. But you you you have also seen uh the diversity of what is growing increase. You know even the roses now I see some very fancy different colors of roses. It's not just red, white and pink. You know there there's a lot. So maybe tell us about what is the state of the flower h industry in Kenya as maybe where it has come from and where it is now.
Yeah. Uh initially when we started most of our customers were really when I joined them I joined the business in 1990. We were relying a lot on corporates and a lot of foreigners. Those were the main people who used to buy flowers because

17:44
they had come from a culture where people um knew flowers.
Yes. Here at that time we were really using doing flowers more for weddings and for funerals. Yes.
But people giving each other flowers started coming up slowly. But now people our fellow Kenyans have traveled a lot and I think the internet has done its things. Now most our most biggest clientele now are Kenyan Africans.
Mhm.
Followed now the the actually the expertise now and the foreigners take a very small margin. So Kenyans I can say have become very aware.
Yes.
In terms of export Kenya is indeed a very big exporter of flowers. Where we come in is that these exporters have a lot of excess. Whenever they export

18:34
they always have an so what we came
to decide is there are things that they can't give us because they get a better
better price abroad.
Yes.
So at times we would get a very big order and you need to do a wedding you need to do a function and they tell you sorry we exporting all this type of variety you wanted we can't get it and you know we found that is not doing justice to our customers. So we decided we're going to grow about 40% of what we need
on flowers
and about reduce on importing on plants and buying and so 80% of our own potted plants um we started growing decide to grow on those. So we do buy 60% uh because they all the farms will always have an excess but like at times like Valentine's that's a crazy time because everybody wants flowers at that time the hotels the the everybody so we reach a point where if you're going to rely on only buying from um the farms you might

19:34 not get any flowers to sell and the orders are there since now we have a big clientele base so that's why we come in we still buy what they are not able to export but we always able to buffer and know that we have enough fillers and all the other kinds of flowers which
in case was came to the worst you would still open your shop.
Yes.
Yeah. So that's that it was actually more of buffering.
Yeah.
Cuz there are times when at times you had to return the money to the customer and tell them I can't I can't get
then the customer will change their design. But it's not good when you start having that. Yeah.
Okay.
What about varieties? Varieties have now become quite diverse. You know we see um Even in the flower growing space,

20:18
you're seeing I've encountered niche growers.
The other day I was surprised to come across uh the Kenya Orchid Society, I think it is, you know, and and I was like, "Oh, wow. There's there's enough growers of orchids uh to for there to be a Kenya orchid society. So maybe let's speak about the the the diversity of the space both from a plant space that you're in which you told us where you get them and also from a flower space. How has the market in a Kenyan context evolved in that way? Yes, as I was telling you, many people have traveled and people we have especially during covid time that's a time we really saw an explosion of people really starting to understand plants and flowers
uh because most people are working from home and they realize they realized their spaces were very dry.

21:07
The most of Nairobi now is a concrete jungle and uh you have no you need the green space next to you. M
so after that time people really developed a big passion of having their houses and their spaces their offices filled up with plants. It was a way of also helping people through that depression and therapy and all that.
Yes.
Um you talked of the orchid society. Yes. Uh we do because of our very good climate. There are people who have come together and uh they collect orchids from all over the world. But uh they don't most of them don't do it as a business. They do it as um a hobby.
As a hobby. Yeah, but uh once in a while you will they will have flower shoes and they will sell orchids. We also have a Kenya horiculture society

21:51
uh which I was a member of for many years and they are now more into general um you know horicultural growing and all that and we have them all over the country. These are very big organization also. So I can say uh we have really grown as a country in the use of flowers nowadays. Before I remember in our times when our parents used to go and visit each other, they used to carry sugar, bread, una and all that.
Nowadays, you don't do that. People have complex people carry flowers. So
that has also very helped us very much
because you don't know what oil anybody uses. You don't know whether they take sugar.
So that has really boosted our business. So whenever the weekend comes or people have a function,

22:32
it's now just flower stocking. So I can say Kenya has really grown in the consumption. Local consumption is excellent.
Yeah. And we have very many players in the field.
Yes.
But funny enough, everybody takes home his bread. If check on the roadside, there are very many people who are also growing plants
all over the roadides.
And all of them are taking their they're getting a bread and butter from that. So I can say we have grown incredibly.
Okay.
Yeah.
So while while you you mentioned to us that you you closed the landscape side of the business. Yeah. Yeah.
Are landscapers your customers on the plant side? Do you have that as a a business line? Are there people who come to buy plants to you either on order or or just

23:17
Well, I I decided to take a a different niche.
Yes.
I decided to specialize in rare plants.
Wow. because there's a lot of common plants on the roadside
and uh so very difficult to propagate plants
things that people are looking for.
They know they can get them from me.
Okay.
Because I have the they know how I have I have done a lot of experiments.
Okay.
I've done collections from all over.
Yes.
But uh the basic stuff I don't grow that.
Okay.
And as I told you I'm trying to really aim more for apartments, offices and all that.
Yes. I don't want to do.
So you're a niche player.
I'm a niche player. You know, you realize that with time you need to focus.

23:58
Yes.
There enough players on the outside landscaping kind of thing.
You don't want to compete with guys who are not paying rent. Okay.
And you know, you're not paying the licenses.
Yeah.
Yeah. And
so for for the sake of for the sake maybe of me like a lane man who's not a who's not into floric culture,
maybe you can tell us a bit about these rare plants. What would sit in your niche? what what kind of plans are these that that you and and how is the journey of maybe that R&D that research that trial and error how has that journey been because when you pick rare
it also goes in in hand inhand with your technical ability and of course your patience and your time so for anyone who's in this business and wants to understand the business better maybe we can speak a bit about that journey uh you're sourcing you said you source from all over the world so how do you source plants. How do you come and propagate them just for a layman's understanding of what that segment looks like?

24:58
Well, I think one of the best businesses to do is actually working with plants because as long as you have one, most of them will always plants have the ability to reproduce.
We can either allow them to produce seeds and then we regrow the seeds or we can take cutings. We can do things called grafting where you take certain parts of that plant and you graft with a local one which we have here
and you get it growing.
So by listening to what the customers are I will always you know look out on there are very many nurseries in this country and other people who collect also. So when I find people are looking for a certain plant I will check on the internet who has it and I have green houses. I have um people I have trained how to propagate. We propagate with them. We give them the right temperature with the right humidity, the right uh

25:52 growing rooting hormones and we try and understand the soil mixtures which this plant requires. First of all, whenever you grow in a plant, you need to know where the origin is. If this plant is from Thailand definitely you have to try and study what is a thand climate like what medias do they use and we in our country we have a beautiful country where the weather doesn't vary too much so I am able to look at this plant it's comes from here it wants this and you build your greenhouse according to the climate that you want for example if you want a very warm greenhouse you use a special uh yellow pepperish is yellowish and then if If you want a cooler greenhouse with more light there there's a polyin pepper we use called nectarine and all these plants they all spec it's the like all plants speak their language like if I look at all these plants here

26:47 the first thing I came here is I commented about the plants and I was very happy because of the environment
but I can tell you by looking at a plant exactly this one needs magnesium this needs phosphorus this one is suffering the watering is too much this oneh needs a more brighter place. So once you start understanding to on how to listen to what the plants are telling you,
you find you can grow almost anything in this country.
And actually when I went to America and into many of the European places, they were even growing coconuts in green houses. They were growing anything. And that's what that that's what made me realize you can grow anything. You just need to create the climate. And that is possible with what we have.

27:29
In Europe, they have to have heaters for their green houses. But here we don't need all that technology.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Wow. Um the demand side. Yeah. Yeah.
So um what what tend to be you you know your customers you interact with them.
Yeah.
What what tend to be the triggers of the demand?
Uh what happens when someone comes and asks you do you have something that you don't have and you have to now start go looking for it to propagate or to grow. What does it where are the trends? uh like in the restaurant uh in in the restaurant space I can tell you about trends you know um
uh 20 years ago or 25 years ago there was no there was hardly any
consumption of lattes and cappuccinos and now those have become mainstream you know now everywhere you go that's what's happening

28:23
but what what triggered what triggers those trends in the plant world plant and flowers world
well I can speak on the h my wife and my sister are very much into doing weddings.
Yes.
And uh for them I've seen the market evolve so much. Some of the flower stands she had created for her the weddings they were doing,
they go out of fashion because most of the brides now want their their wedding to have the latest
kind of trend that is trending in the whole world.
Okay.
So when they approach you, they have got their stuff from the internet.
Yes.
I want it this way. I want this kind of flowers. And funny enough, every year the colors they sometimes you see this year the weddings are more like peach

29:05
then another year it's more like burgundy
another time comes everybody just wants white
so I think uh the it's something like a movement in the whole world
which triggers uh the fashions
because even uh when you look at different generations the older generation who are 60s7s the flowers that they wanted the they want their flowers done is not the way the 40s and the 30s want. And then when you come now to the the below 20s, they want flowers which are packed in a certain way. They want things like glitter, the kind of paper they want, they want black papers. Some even ask us for black ribbons and these flowers they want to cut somebody with. Yes.
And you can't understand but that's just them.

29:49
Yes.
When you come to the older people, there's those old traditional ones. You give them anything modern and it's war. Yes. and they are the people who actually have the money and they are paying you and they have paid you over the years. You have to listen to your customer what they want because it depends on which age group you are you you are looking at.
Yes.
But there are some very simple uh triggers which make us know what how to sell in the shop.
Yes. If a lady comes
and says she wants very beautiful flowers, she's going to see a very good friend of hers and he wants you to suggest which kind of flowers are the best.
Just look at the way she's dressed.
Ladies work on colors. The way she wakes up and she feels on colors and wears

30:34
make her a bouquet that looks exactly like what she's wearing.
Okay.
You win her heart 100%. That has always worked. It has never failed even once.
Okay.
So, you've learned very many business tricks.
Yes. and and they help you get along.
Yes.
So that that's in the flower side.
Okay.
In the plant side, as I told you, many people are reading about most people are working now from offices, not from offices, in homes and everything. And
you want to have your air clean. So when you go into the internet, they tell these are the kind of plants that clean the air. They purify.
They purify. And actually when they say it purifies, it doesn't mean that they remove dust. They never you have to clean the plants off dust. M

31:11
but there are those harmful gases that are in the air especially in towns like benzene and all those cancer causing
plants are able to assimilate those harmful chemicals and use them for their things.
So you find you might be here and these plants are really keeping you alive because
apart from giving you oxygen
they are removing lots of other harmful gases which are not good for you.
Yeah.
So people don't understand they think cleaning is keeping the house clean without dust.
Okay.
But it's actually removing very harmful chemicals and it has been proven they do that. Okay.
Yeah, it's real.
It's so interesting how I I love studying businesses. Yeah.
And it's so interesting how um I can now see a direct link

31:50
to Kenya's internet connectivity and your business
because uh the trends are clearly coming from the fact that we have become one we have great internet connectivity. So the young people are in tune with global trends almost real time, you know,
and and that is now informing the decisions that you're making. But it's also been great to now I can understand quite clearly what you were saying earlier about your business
is
you really have to be close to the customer because it's a very personal decisions. what flowers I like and that decision will change. You know, it's not like I'll permanently be in that. It'll be influenced by
and then you're dealing with multiple demographics. So, it's great

32:37
to to to see that evolve.
Maybe let's now speak about um multi-unit operations because we spoke about um the the store in sit which opened
but I'm aware that you don't just run one store. Yeah. You run multiple stores. Yeah. Where are the other stores? And what is your experience? Yeah.
With in the restaurant business, we say running a single restaurant and running multiple restaurants. Those are two different businesses. The way you treat them, the way you control them, the way you work in them.
Um what has your where are your other locations and how has it been uh being a multi-unit operator in the floral space? Well um before COVID we had three branches
um one is what the one which is still on is ataya

33:33
but once one we had to close it was in a big mall but that mall was just starting to come up. Yes.
So we tried our to try and come up but it took long for so the four first four years
were extremely difficult. We realized we were burning a lot of money there. So we closed that one.
So what we have decided to do and what we doing right now is we do have other people who are in the flower business.
So instead of opening a third, a fourth and a fifth one, we work together with our competitors.
Okay.
What they don't have, we sell to them at very, you know, reasonable prices.
So now they become like the the third, the fourth and the fifth
outlets.
Outlets. Okay. So we do we try and have a wholesale section more of a retail.

34:21
Yes.
Even if it's not that big, it is there.
And I think that that that also helps a lot especially in plants.
I have people who want these plants for their shops
or they have orders and you give them a wholesale price and they go and sell. So instead of fighting, you use your competitors to make it a win-win kind of thing. Okay.
So we do a lot of that. Okay.
Yeah. So you
and so the two stores at the moment are in sid center the original one from 1983 and in center
center and for now at my age I don't feel likefortable not that you know now I also want to make it easier for me
and since the people will buy from me any I mean if we can get those ones running and sell wholesaler why not

35:08
okay
yeah why okay
let's speak about the uh double aetting in the commercials and the financials around the flower business. Yeah.
Um where are the inherent risks, you know,
what could go wrong? Because being an entrepreneurial podcast, a lot of the young people, even the older people who listen to us want to understand the business even from the numbers side
and you I can't think of someone better to speak about it because you've been through multiple cycles, multiple years. you you saw your father do it and your mother and so on.
So maybe let's speak a bit about the commercials and financials around the flower business. How is that side of the business? Um how what are the risks you know financials risk? what where the you've touched on one briefly where you could open a location and uh the time it takes to take off is is is quite long and significant but what what has your other experience been from a commercial perspective in that business? Well, um

36:13 you need to we tend to do our studies about um different months, different uh days of the week, what moves when and we have come now we are able to order flowers or make sure that we have flowers according to the demand because once you have a flower shop you must be ready to throw away at least minimum of 20%.
Okay,
that one is a must. I don't know whether the food industry is the same but
there'll be an element of wisdom.
There has to be an element. So you have to incorporate that in your costs.
So the shop has to always be full looking good and full. You can't not refuse to stock because you'll only wait for people to come then you off buy the flowers. People want to have come and have a good selection. Enjoy you know selecting. And this is why it come becomes very important to be also a grower so that you can you can you know it's easier to buffer and lose flowers which you have grown because you didn't

37:12 pay as much
as flowers which you bought from a farm or a broker who had bought from a farm
cuz that's that's basically that that's what happens
and and you know but uh uh study your market and always make sure you're equipped. Um people don't want you to show them photos. They want to come and find all the flowers there. So make sure all the time you are stocked up with this not big quantities. So if they come and give you a very big order and they want this now you talk to the farms or your suppliers and you and you get that bigger thing and also work with a good bank that will be able to understand uh understand you and where you at. when we need to expand our businesses, we have a good bank who we talk with the manager and they're able to advance money and that helped us a lot during co I

38:02
I remember it was very tough at that time and we didn't want to let go of our staff. We did not want to you know cut on their salaries and I I for one or the other God was very gracious. We did get a lot of orders that could sustain us but at times it was difficult to pay the rent or even pay salaries and I went and talked to the manager of the bank and I told him this is what I need and the bank you need to have a bank that really wants to support you and I've had a good bank along the years that
have really supported us well.
Excellent.
Yeah. So there always be times when for one reason or the other maybe when we go to the election year you know you realize all businesses tend to become a bit shaky and especially during elections and results and all that.

38:50
So you need to have a place where you can run to for extra financing.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
You spoke about uh that that you anticipate at least a 20% loss in in terms of your flowers and you need to be ready for that. you who then has backward integrated your business in the sense that you have now a place where you grow the plants and the flowers.
Do you practice any kind of composting or is that is that a side of your business that
Wow, you're brilliant. I think I'll call you in to work with me.
No.
Yes. That that is something my father used to tell me when we started the business that we need to be taking the all that trash and putting it back
into the farm.

39:35
And I really felt like it was a waste of money carrying all this stuff back to the farm.
But when I started doing it,
which unfortunately it's not many years ago,
I realized it was exactly what he meant.
When we started composting,
carrying carrying all the waste, we don't throw away any plant waste.
Yes. We take it back and yes we do compost it
and from that time our production became better. We had we could reduce on buying fertilizers and all that.
The soil is a living organism and the more organic fertilizers you put you tend to kill your soil.
Yes.
But once you incorporate this manure back
the life the soil comes back to life and the soil will give you much better quality flowers. So, I'm amazed that you you

40:21
No, I have a I have a little I have a little herb garden at home. I I grow I'm a food person. So, I I stopped buying herbs and to teach my kids how food is grown. So, I have in the corner of my house, I have a little herb garden.
And on the strength of that hub garden, we're saying we carried out an experiment about
around actually co time. Uh what if we stopped what if we we stopped throwing out our organic waste into the dust bin?
Yeah.
And the the first saving was in the cost of garbage disposal because I think it went down.
Our garbage went down by almost 60%. Because we now were moving into the compost
and then that has worked very well. One, the kids have learned about how to compost. But also my little hub garden benefits from having this uh compost available. So I thought

41:15
well done.
Yeah. Yeah. Even in my place because I I do collect also other type I have about a quarter acre garden.
Yes.
Which have landscape where I stay
and all the waste that comes from the kitchen. That's exactly where it goes.
Even the eggshells are very good for with calcium and all that. So we have we never the only thing we throw away are the papers and you know that kind of stuff
but we take back everything into the garden and and I don't need to fertilize my garden or add anything. And then there's also something very interesting I learned when I was farming in most of the farmers there are now using rabbit urine
as a folia for a folia feed to you spray on your plants. They use it a lot on the vegetables there. Most of the cabbage you eat you eat so tell you

42:05
has been grown using arabit urine even the potatoes.
Yes.
And there it's an excellent source of inorganic fertilizers.
So we tried that with the flowers up in Yandara
and we realized the flowers are thriving and very happy with it. So it has cut down um a lot on fertilizers and
we realized that
we had started spoiling some parts of the our soil with those inorganic fertiliz with organic inorgan
inorganic fertilizers. Yeah.
So the fact that you talked of compost I thought I'll bring in rabbit urine and I always tell people if you can get rabbit urine
it's fantastic. The workers at the farm will be able to eat the rabbits. They always have enough meat
and the urine will also improve your production. But it doesn't smell interesting enough.

42:53
You will never feel the smell of it.
Yeah. And also the rabbit urine cures h it protects plants against certain fungicides, funguses
and also insects. You'll find once you spray that those aids and all those small things that eat your vegetables,
they can't stand rabbit urine.
Interesting. And when I also Googled and researched more on it before I did it on the flowers, I realized that the forest, the natural forest do so well because they have rabbits.
It's like the creator had known that if I have rabbits in the forest
and that's why the forest just seem to be flourishing and growing and becoming better and if man does not touch
a certain um patch
it becomes a forest without any fertilizers. So rabbit turine now all over the world is is becoming a priceless thing. A 20 lit jug of rabbit turine is selling at 2,000 B.

43:48
What?
Yes. It's that serious.
Oh wow.
Yes.
Okay. So do you keep rabbits or do you buy?
Yes. All our farms we we do I do keep rabbits.
Yes.
I'm not my kids will not allow me to eat them. They they consider them pets.
Yes.
So all we do is get the rabbit urine. And
I think the people we work with are the ones who eat them.
Okay.
Yeah. What an interesting story.
Now you you did mention that you and your wife are not your only uh you have other siblings. Maybe we can talk a bit about them.
H the ones who went also and became florists in their own right because I know it's not only you in your family.
So you are a very unique family. first of all unique from the fact that you're third generation florists and and and and then you are multiple siblings in multiple not necessarily the same business.

44:44
Maybe we can speak about that. Uh
the impact I I see as an outsider looking in I see the impact of your parents must have been very strong
for three of you to come into that space.
Yeah.
Yes. Um okay if at sit center where I work I'm not able to handle weddings because we have enough of these other walk-in customers and corporate customers.
Yes.
So my sister and my wife started their own line where they do corporate events and they do weddings.
Okay. Now why I stopped doing weddings and I did quite a number was the fact that you need to go for wedding meetings and uh you also almost become part of the committees or wedding committees every evening you leave your work and you have to go and sit down with them and

45:33
Yes. Yes. It's quite involving.
Yeah. So I decided that's why I dropped on my line at we don't do any weddings but we push them the weddings to them.
Okay.
Uh then my brother who we look alike in fact most people come to the shop and they think it's me they have met. only people who know us really know who is who. So what we do we are able to uh divide the duties. Uh we don't work every day together and uh whenever he's working I'm not there and whenever he's not there I'm there so that we able to now push the farms and the other things we are doing work on them you know if we were both there the the farms would suffer. Okay.
So we make sure we separate. He has his time. He He has his strengths and uh you know all the paperwork, the book work, the accounting, the auditing and all that is on those those lines.

46:23
Uh the the internet orders and all that. I'm very poor with social media.
Yes.
And uh maybe even just to let you know we we we have we try and employ a lot of the younger people because now we have reached a point where most of the customers don't want to talk to me. They want to talk to their age mates. Yes. So I'm only there uh at a distance listening to the to the problems or the issues which are there to try and help them but we have tried to really develop all the workers who we have we don't have anybody who comes trained we we we train our own staff and um that's where that's why um we are able to give our product according to the way we want even at the farm level all the skills that I have learned even my education I'm able to take somebody make him a farm manager and give him the skills work through the problems they are having and you know let them come up with we work together through the solutions

47:24
this way now I'm able to just go to the farms maybe once a week or twice a week and also be in in at the shop and uh be all over
okay
because actually we farm like in four four different locations plus now the shop
and that helps But but having a family member at the shop all the time is important.
Yes.
And now what we are doing right now for the future, we are grooming uh one nephew and one niece who has shown interest. My children uh have their own professions.
Yes.
One is a lawyer who is doing well. She she she she loves flowers and she took care of the shops at some time before she got her jobs. And the other one is a vet working with wild animals and she has a passion for animals in Yanuki.

48:11
Excellent.
And she she doesn't really want to be in the business.
As I told you, my third born who is 17 is working in the media line now.
So on my side, I don't have any successes nieces and nephews now. Those are who I'm grooming and passing over the the the button to.
Okay.
Because we need to think of the future if it will be there.
Okay. But also I do I've also have a passion of growing trees
and upper thereas I have grown we are growing a lot of cypress trees for the future.
Mhm.
Yeah. Because they they love that climate and they're very good for wood. Those are now long-term investments.
Okay.
And you don't need to go and fertilize them and look after them. You just plant them and in 10 12 years you harvest.

48:57
Yeah.
Okay. Excellent. Wow. That's why I we need to have the three of us all have to work together because my wife is also part of us.
So we all work together. As I told you, you need animals to grow. Yeah. You need cow manure.
You need sheep manure is excellent for growing flowers and uh she she specializes in that. I don't know anything about sheep or cows and all that.
So she you keep some sheep.
Yeah. And some that you can get the money. As I told you, she's Yes. Yes. when you met at weddings and she does cows.
Okay. Okay.
Yeah. But now that manure really has boosted.
So you have a full cycle outfit because you are you're getting your manure from yourself. You're composting at the end and so it's a it's a complete loop.

49:43
Yeah. Yes. It works.
Excellent. Excellent. What what a fabulous fabulous story. Maybe just for our understanding as a as a parting shot.
Yeah.
Can we speak a bit about your your linkages international linkages? Like I know there's uh organizations like interfa you know where people from outside can order flowers. Is that a line of your business?
There's a long time when interfa was actually he them and one other person were the main players in the whole world.
Yes.
But now with people Yeah. I have my brother who hasn't who's not part of farming
is very much in uh computers computer programming.
Yes. and uh all that kind of stuff. He has made sure on the social media we are up to date together with my nephew who we work with.

50:31
Yes.
So they keep us uh
out there
out there. Yes.
So we do get international orders that come in through the social the social those different platforms.
Yes. and they handled and uh at first when that thing came up we we really were losing lost a lot of business because everybody in Kenya opened a a social media flower shop they take photos of flowers and say we do that
but over the years people came to realize who are the real players and who are the cons.
Yes. So now after now that we are known after all those number of years in the even we get we get um we get we get very good references even out there. So like on Mother's Day which was in May, we had very many people from America who wanted flowers for their mothers and delivered to them.

51:21
They all came in through the
internet and like at Valentine's time my brother now who is techno serve he knows he he linked us up and we were able to get lots of orders from outside and the orders were being processed online. You know for me it's Greek.
Excellent.
But I saw the money so coming in so I can say it works.
Excellent. It works.
Yeah. But I don't want to sit down and do it. Let let the younger generation do these things.
Excellent.
Man, Alan, what a fabulous, fabulous story. First of all, I'm just blown away. I'd always known that your multigenerational farm florists, but I didn't know it was three, you know, and now I I would even argue four because your niece and nephew are now coming into the business. So you're you're a four generation uh outfit of of Flores and to see that being uh

52:13
in a local entity is for me exactly why this podcast exists.
Thank you.
You know to show long-term African excellence executing in Africa for Africans
because most of your work is like you say for locals, you know, you're not an exporter of flowers. you're growing plants and flowers
for the emerging Kenyan consumer, the older, the younger, all of them
and that's simply amazing to see. So, congratulations. I just want to give you your flowers while you're here
and say, man, it it really is an inspirational story that you have.
Thank you. Maybe just to add something else. We also have a school for teaching flower arranging, okay,
which is run by my wife and my sister.

52:53
Yes. So we believe that all the knowledge and the experiences God has given us,
it's not really for us as a family, it is us to pass over to the next generation.
And I'm I am proud to say that most of the workers, we have a very good retention of the people we work with. And most of the ones who have left us have only left us because they've gone to start their own businesses
and they are doing well. And we also still coexist and work together.
And we have many people who also want to learn. We even have workshops where my wife and my sister get people coming together and they teach them the latest trends off. We even get corporates calling them to come to a I don't know what it's called. There's something about corporates doing something to help.

53:37
Yeah. Team building events and other other
another thing they call it. I don't remember the name but they are called and they and you find in the whole setup or in the bank the executives and where are all called and they they learn how to do flowers how to wrap flowers the meaning of flowers the colors meanings how to treat your flowers and my wife and my sister she's called Lydia and Lilian they're excellent in thating
so so I would have done disservice not to tell you that we also passing over this the best we can do is actually to empower the next generation and I'm So proud when I see you know the people I've employed now they they driving their cars
they now they've now become employers one when I used to do landscaping my manager he now he has his own managing uh business so people come to me and s their own landscaping done because they know my garden I refer them them to him and I tell him this guy I've trained him he knows everything he's worked with my dad also in landscaping and the guy has done also very well so my know I get very many brothers and sisters the family is Not just the the

54:41 ones you're talking about the six.
It's bigger.
It's much bigger and and you know it's it's you really know it's it's family because like when we lost our last year these are the guys who supported us big time. The guys we used to work with who we never left each other because we had squables or what these guys were there every day made sure you know you realize these are now families. The people you work with I have read books which say you should not treat employees like families and I don't believe it. You're working with human beings. M
these are people with needs like you.
How do you expect to be blessed if you use them like machines and just you know kick them out when you feel like

55:17
Agreed.
No, you wouldn't be blessed.
Fabulous.
Yeah, you would.
Wow. Alan. Alan. Amazing. I think as a parting shot maybe I'll allow you to tell uh the audience where they can find you. uh where they can you have said center in yaya but if you do have your your websites or uh internet handles if not um that's fine but uh give you a chance to to tell um the audience about Westlands Flores and Garden Center.
Thank you.
Yeah. Well, um I do tend to be more of a very private person and a person who works behind the scenes and uh landard had to do a lot of looking for me to get me on this show. So, it's not easy to get me. That's what I'm saying. But you still can get me through Westland Florist. You leave a message with them there at the shop. They they will give you my number and you'll be able to contact me. But, uh I'm so busy with

56:14 thousands upon thousands of plants and flowers. So that is at my age now I find a lot of peace and uh but I am very willing to help anybody who really wants to be helped. Before I used to be in the shop from um 8:00 up to 7 in the evening
but when you reach uh when you are passing over the button you really you really have to pull back and check whether the systems are working. So now I'm really more on developing systems and making sure that you know I can fade out and the business continues and grows.
Excellent.
Yeah. So anytime you anybody sit center just write west florist anywhere everything the numbers and everything their websites everything will come up.
Excellent.
Yeah. So thank you.

56:59
Get excellent. So ladies and gentlemen that was Alan Kanged. You can find them just search for Westland Florist and Garden Center. They're at Sarid Center on the ground floor um at the entrance. You can also find them at Yaya Center outside the main entrance on the left hand side as you walk in and they're there and you can order your flowers. Search for them on the internet and look at their handles. And what a fabulous fabulous story of four generations of a family in one space of flowers and flowers in Kenya. Something definitely worthy of celebration. Thank you very much for being with us in episode 66 of the African Do podcast and we look forward to having you in future episodes. Thank you very much.