Carol Kariuki — transcript

Ichiban

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:00 Greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 32 of the African Do podcast. Today we're very privileged to have with us Carol Karuki, CEO of Ichiban Tax and Business Advisory Limited. Um, and we'll speak more about Ichiban, but we'll also speak about Carol and her journey in entrepreneurship and what she does. Carol, welcome to the African Do podcast.
Thank you very much, Leonard. Glad to be here. Okay. So, Carol, um let's start with the fact that you're a lawyer.
Yeah. Uh you're a lawyer who's running a tax advisory firm. So, let's go a bit back into your history because I think it would be quite interesting for many to hear the transitions you've had. So, who is Carol and where do you begin your journey? You know, you what took you to study the law and what were your early days like?

0:54
All right. So the law was not actually in my cards. That was nowhere near what I wanted to do. I started off wanting to be a doctor and then moved on to wanting to be an aeronautical engineer
and then an interior designer, which is really where my passion was.
Yes.
But when I told that to my mom, she's like, you want to go and paint houses?
No.
And uh that was nipped in the bud. So I had to figure out, so now what? And when I looked at the options, I wanted something quote unquote easy
to do. Uh and I figured I liked reading. Law is all about reading. I I'll manage.
Okay.
Which thankfully I did.
Uh so having completed that, got into a bit of practice, but very quickly discovered that indeed the law was not for me.

1:44
Okay.
I hated it.
Yes.
I really did not like it.
Um I tried my best, but I really did not like it. But I was fortunate enough to get into a firm that allowed me to dabble in a bit of management and I really loved it. I thrived
and uh very shortly left started my own practice called totally sorted
and um practiced that for a number of years ran it for possibly about 15 years before now getting into
but you didn't like it yet you go yet you go and start a practice. So what's the thinking behind that?
The practice behind so let's start with totally sorted. So, Totally Sorted was geared towards assisting law firms,
yes,
uh, manage better. So, really tighten up their operations, professionalize their systems.

2:30
A lot of professionals really start out as what I'd call kiosks. So, it's a guy who's passionate about the law, says, you know, I can do this,
uh, does it very well, gets clients, gets money, and is like, you know, great, let's do this thing,
and kind of succeeds and manages around it.
Okay. Uh so Totally Sorted was coming in to help law firms tighten that up and introduce systems and processes so that uh we don't have people dying of burnout which a lot of them are to this day.
We don't have people losing clients uh for you know silly reasons like you know you miss a court date or you can't find the file and stuff like that.
So that's what I did for a really long time before now getting into Ichiban which is a tax and business advisory practice. Before we get to Ichiban, let's talk a bit about that sorting out lawyers.

3:21
Yes.
Um because my personal experience, I guess in life, um if you've had a career like mine, you do get to deal with lawyers quite a bit. And um my experience has been the craft of the lawyers are of high repute. Yeah. But um I think it's sad to say but I'm yet to have a wow customer experience from a law firm
and and I want to be clear because I have many lawyer friends so that I want them to be clear what I am saying.
I do not at any point question their technical expertise.
Absolutely.
And their courtroom ability or negotiating ability.
But there's a bit more to customer service than that. So maybe as you were talking about totally sorted that piqued my interest because what did you see? What did you learn? Uh because I feel that many law firms what my pet peeves with them tends to be communication or lack thereof uh lack of flow of information and expectation that

4:29
I should be fine because they are the sharp lawyers and they've got this. So you just chill there in the corner. will tell you when and that's not the way I operate. So I've had some rather loud exchanges with lawyers who have been serving me because what of what I feel is a failure for them to either communicate effectively not questioning their legal ability
and some of those have been very successful in terms of the outcome. But I'm like what's this? You know I I I I think yes we have won the case but I'll never come to you again because of the customer experience. Absolutely.
So what did you see and what did you do or what was totally sorted uh doing to sort that out?
All right. So I started off in a very good law firm that had systems uh in place and uh was very wellrun

5:19
and then moved into a different law firm which was now heading in that direction and was really looking to streamline their operations
and uh we were able to connect on that front. So my eyes were already open to management. I like things that work well and I like to do something about it. So when I started to volunteer around little policy issues that I could see, they were receptive to it which then allowed me to experiment and really get things moving right
and some of the things that I was seeing was say for example people when it comes to people management. Um, a lot of lawyers, you know, you're a young upcoming lawyer. You've joined a guy who's been in business for a while. Yes. And as a pup, a lot of lawyers will tell you that they spent their pupilage years, you know, running errands. Yes. You know, just, you know, delivering laundry, you know, going to buy meat and

6:10 stuff like that
and there was a sense in which the younger lawyers were not being well utilized.
So, that's something that I had seen and started to figure out what what can we do about this. Fortunately, the law firm was receptive.
So, we started to put in place policies. How do we ensure that we're utilizing people?
Yes.
Then there was an element of disorganization.
So, how do I ensure that when Leonard comes in and wants to speak to a lawyer that we can actually find his file
because usually, I don't know if you saw the older law firms, your files are just stacked
all over the place.
And if you come in impromptu, it'll probably take, you know, 2 hours to find your file. Sometimes not at all. What to you? If it's a much older matter, it might be in the garage. Usually, it was in a partner's garage somewhere. You'd never be able to trace it. So, I started tightening some of those things up, creating filing systems. Yes. Uh figuring out how do we ensure when Leonard comes in, it'll just take a couple of minutes to find his matter and

7:07 then it can be placed before the lawyer. Lawyer can peruse it quickly. By the time Leonard is coming to see the lawyer, the lawyer is well appraised of what's going on and you're not having hiccups.
Um, so those are some of the things. And then when you move beyond the people and the the files and now start thinking about the actual practice of the law.
Yes.
Then you start to see gaps where yesterday I handled a matter. Maybe in another two or three months I'll handle a similar matter.
Yes.
But I'll have forgotten.
So now I'm doing this other matter as if I'd never done it ever before.
And sometimes a pool is in the law firm or someone else in the law firm has handled a similar amount.

7:45
Absolutely. So how then do we start to uh leverage off this knowledge that is already within the practice
and now we start creating knowledge management databases and those then now start to ensure that even when you have a new lawyer coming into the practice yes
you're not then they're not starting from zero you know they they've come in and rather than starting at the very bottom they have a sense in which I can actually meet a client very soon after I join because I have a system to guide me so start creating those systems around knowledge management. So it was really a a revolving door of so many different things that needed to be tightened up and as you tighten one you discover

8:24 something else and tighten that and it just keeps keeps going
including including admin.
Including admin. Okay.
Including admin. Yes.
Okay. So you took everything else but the law.
Absolutely.
Yeah. And you said let me house skip this and and you actually built so totally sorted was an advisory firm that did. So what would an engagement with a law firm look like where we are or how do you monetize that service? You we're coming you a law firm comes to you and say listen we need you to what clean us up or sort out our systems or what?
Absolutely. And what would happen? So when we first started I started off by doing policy documentation.
Okay.
But very quickly realized that it wasn't the documentation that was the problem. It was the doing

9:09
execution.
Exactly. sits on somebody's shelf and then change it where are you
where do you want to go and how do we help you get there
and what the engagement looked like was usually one to two years so it was a it was a
long term it was long term
it was a deep dive
it was a deep dive and I said I wouldn't take on a client unless you are willing to give me at least one year
but my request was usually for 2 years Because then what would happen is then you go in and you start talking about these things. They're foreign. There's a lot of resistance and you know you're trying to get buy in. You're trying to understand and people need to see things working before they will accept to change other things and that takes time.

9:55
So if I come in for 3 months
doesn't make a difference cuz then you'll start to do something just cuz Carol is around. But the moment she's out the door you're back to factory settings. Okay.
But then if we do it over a period of a year, then by the time I'm exiting, then there are quite a number of things that have already become practice. So even when I exit, then there are things that will still continue running. Okay.
So generally one to two years.
That makes a lot of sense.
Yes. So the engagement would start with of course finding out this would look like if I was to take it down a practical route. It would be an engagement maybe a kickoff meeting and then you you would spend some time in the business finding for yourself finding out for yourself what is wrong or the lawyer would tell you or the law firm would tell you.

10:39
So we'd uh start off with a lawyer telling so generally an interview with all partners and say so what what are you guys looking for? You know where are your what are your pet peeves? What are your pain points? What do you want? What do I want to get out of this?
And then we'd move on into a discussion with every staff member.
Yes.
So, we'd actually go around and we would interview every staff member.
Everyone.
Everyone. Okay.
Yes. Everyone. And find out, okay, how are you doing? What's going on? What's not working for you? Because what would happen is if you only listen to the lawyer, you'll get a very high level view of what's going on. Even worse, if you're talking to the partner, because when the partner asks for a file, Yes. the file is availed very quickly. But if a junior associate asks for a file,

11:22
it's not the same.
It's not the same. So if you don't speak to everybody, you don't get to hear where the real problems are. So then we really get to hear that.
Then once we've gotten that, we then pinpoint where are we starting. So we have a list like an index of all the policies that we think are important. Yes.
And then we'd start to work our way through them. And what we'd request is to have a meeting with all staff members or at least a very good representation of all staff members. It would be a weekly meeting
so that then we have an a cadence of uh accountability, a cadence of improvement that every single week we're discussing something and we're reporting on what has been happening.

11:59
Okay.
So we tighten up the policies week by week by week by week. And you can imagine within the course of a year if you factor in the Christmas breaks it means we are doing at least 45 meetings.
Yes.
So by the end of that it'll be very difficult for you not to have changed.
Yes. True.
Yes. Yeah.
True.
Yeah.
But but it doesn't uh exist anymore as a business.
No, it doesn't. And I was just about to say before we get on to why it doesn't exist, I was just about to say that um that sounds like a service that doctors need, not just not just lawyers because
professionals actually just generally generally professionals sounds like a service that is quite required I dare say not only in Kenya but in the continent

12:45
because that service or those systems that improve the user experience and the customer experience are are still an emerging trend in our market because another pet peeve of mine is doctors. You know, why why can't the good doctors have appointments with times and and keep them, you know, you go there for a 10:00 and you're seeing the doctor at at 1 p.m. And it's like, listen,
just bow down and be grateful that you're seeing the the mighty doctor so and so. And I'm just like, come on, guys. It can be done better.
Yes. Absolutely.
So why doesn't it exist anymore?
It's an expensive venture.
It is not doesn't come cheap. As you can imagine, if I'm going to be there every week, so whether me or a member of my team, if we're going to be there every single week, and remember the work isn't only in the meeting,

13:39
even beyond the meeting, there's work that needs to go on. So we'll be there for the meeting, but then it also we also need to be there to check, you know, are you actually doing what you said you're going to do?
And how are you doing it? Are you doing it in a way that makes sense? Do we need to panel beat what you're doing a little bit before we get to the next meeting? There are documents that need to be done. So, you need to do the policies. So, somebody needs to be writing the policies and making sure that they're being followed. So, we have policy audits that are going on. We have trainings that need to be done so that then everybody in the firm knows exactly how things are supposed to happen. So, it's an intense it's a very intense um operation. So, it is quite expensive. When you say expensive, you mean expensive um from the perspective of the firm seeking the service and hence traction to get return business is tough or expensive from what perspective? So expensive in the sense that um for majority of professionals when presented

14:39 with the bill
or presented with this is the proposal and they're like oh fantastic you know we really need this stuff
then when they get
how much it going to cost
really
but do you feel then um that we are losing out because that is it's it's it's what I call either the bitter pill or the necessary pain in in order to transition to what can grow into a national uh or an international or a regional player. Is that in your opinion the reason why we're not seeing that kind of growth?
Absolutely.
And scaling up of of of our Kenyan businesses.
Absolutely. And I can tell you that the clients that I have worked with Yes.
have won awards.
Okay.
Yes. They've won awards. They've scaled up. they've uh managed to have partnerships because if you're thinking about partnerships, nobody wants to partner with something that they don't understand

15:36
and if you don't have systems, you don't have policies, you don't have a way of doing things, then there's nothing to understand cuz then I'll come today and I'll be oh this looks good, but when I come next time it looks different. So who are you exactly? So partners don't like that. They want transparency. They want accountability. They want predictability. And unless you have systems and policies in place that you're actually following, then you don't have those things. So Carl, do you think then we as a nation have a a disdain for intellect?
Because what you're saying is something that is necessary from some very very intelligent people
who need this service. Yeah. And um I dare say that would not be more than the your services would not cost more than the partner's latest car.

16:28
Definitely not.
Yeah. So yet yet few are able. Do you feel that that's a stumbling block for us as a nation or as a people?
I'm not sure that it would be intellect and I'll just I'll take it from the admin perspective.
Okay. People do not value admin. They don't value the invisible work.
And this is so in business. It is so also in the home.
Yes.
So invisible work is not appreciated. And that's what admin really is.
I like that phrase, invisible work.
Yes. Uhhuh.
And if you think about it, it's very much like your backbone.
Yes.
When's the last time you thought about your backbone?
You you'd never think about it unless it pains. But if you don't give it the necessary love and care and strengthen it and ensure you're doing your core work and you're sitting well and you have good posture, you're taking your calcium,

17:19
you know, it won't keep you upright.
Then it will pain. So admin and operations is a lot like that. It is the thing that you need to take care of before it starts to pain.
Yes.
Because then when it does then it becomes a terrible thing. But how many of us listen to our backbone? How many of us bother with posture? you know people you see people hunched over people are sitting for long hours people aren't doing their exercises all because you know it's not paining right now
yeah so I think that's that's the biggest problem that we have in that area that nobody sees that invisible work
they're more concerned with the if I'm a lawyer I'm concerned with the lawyering if I'm a doctor I'm concerned with the doctoring if I'm an engineer I'm concerned with my you know my engineering all these other things you know are not that important because who sees it M

18:05
yeah I I I think that I I really hope that's something that we can we can change because I feel that you're right and I like the the the statement invisible work but I also like the backbone analogy
because it does paint the picture quite accurately in terms of the magnitude of the opportunity that we are losing
um the number of big big ticket firms we see be they doctors be they lawyer be they other professionals
that lack that backbone you know to help them become global, continental, regional players. I think that's the missing link is understanding the importance of not just the admin but the admin, the people, the customer experience that and and so on.
Um but now we end up at Ichiban and what happens that how do we end up at Ichiban?

18:57
So Ichiban started we are just we're in our fourth year now.
Yes. So started off when uh my husband and I decided to get together and put uh this practice on the table. Yes.
And get to running. So my husband is a tax practitioner.
Mh.
And when we started off, I initially started just you know dabbling and helping out a little bit. I wasn't too certain that this was going to be my thing.
Yes.
But then I very quickly realized that because he is a tax professional, a very good one,
he wants to deal with a tax.
He doesn't want this done. Oh no.
Yeah.
And I realized again that the doubling is not going to cut it. That it needs a more focused kind of attention. And so jumped in and said, "You know what? You continue doing the tax stuff. I'll do the CEO. I'll do all the other stuff.

19:49
Everything else but tax." Yes. So please, I'm not I don't I understand tax. I can have a good tax discussion, but I'm not going to go and give tax advice. But then I'll come in and one of the first things that I wanted to do was to set a culture.
Yes.
And I said, you know, if we don't set a culture right from the beginning,
the culture will be set anyway.
Yes.
So let's decide what do we want this practice to be and let's start building it in a way that it can actually become that thing.
And one of the things that has been a great delight for me is when we meet up with people and they say, you know, you guys don't behave like a three-year-old business. You know, you behave like a 10-year-old business. And for me, I think it's really because of the systems. It's because of the deliberateness that has gone into what do we want this to become? How do we set in place structures and systems that will then allow us to realize this?

20:40
And another thing that people also struggle with is we're a small practice.
Yes.
We are 12 in total including him and I.
Yes.
But our operations team
Yes.
is a team of five.
Yes. And guys are like, "Are you guys crazy?" You know, what are you doing?
And the reality is that if you think about the team of five, this team of five would probably be able to support maybe even 20 or 30 people.
Yes.
But if you don't have the team of five
at the beginning when they're 12.
Yes. Exactly. You're still struggling. The reality is because then if you don't have let's say cuz we have somebody in HR.
Yes.
And they're like, "You guys are 12. Why do you have a full-time HR person?" M

21:20
you're like if you don't have a HR person then who is actually doing the HR work
it's going to be either him or I
so is that what we really should be doing is that what our time should be occupied by
if you don't have an accountant the accounting still has to get done
so who's doing that? So a couple of questions. Um the first one being maybe you can give us an example of the behavior that you spoke about that if you want to see a certain type of behavior in your organization, you need to start working um on it early. Yeah. And then um my interaction with your firm actually comes from that one HR person who you mentioned. Yes. And what I found to be interesting
is you took you you onboarded into your organization a relatively junior HR person at the time. Yeah. Uh literally straight out of school.

22:16
Yes.
Was that intentional in the sense that you didn't want someone who was crowded by different thoughts and and ways of and you wanted to build that culture from scratch. Maybe you can walk us through those two two things. Yeah.
So let me start with the latter and say when it came to hiring I can't say that we have had one systematic way of uh saying you know this is our hiring that we hire experience or we hire young and build up.
We've done both
and we've done it based on the need as well as just our own interaction.
So for example with HR because of my background I have had a lot of exposure to HR. I might not be a HR professional but I have a lot of exposure to HR and dealing with people.

22:59
You know what good HR looks like.
Exactly. So I figured this I can mold
this I can train up
and get to a place where then now my expectation is be better than me know more than me and now you pour into me. But from the beginning I can hold your hand and show you what exactly it is and I can communicate my expectations. But there are other positions where what we needed was somebody you say you know what I have a bit of expertise here but the assistance I need is of a caliber that I can't hold your hand for so I need you to be more experienced than I am and then now we can walk the journey together.
That's clear.
But regardless of which side it is our hiring has been very much valuesoriented.

23:41
So in fact when you come in for our first interview we don't ask you a single technical question.
Yes. So we get into who are you? What are you? What's important to you? Do we vibe well together? Because if we're going to work together, we need to vibe well together.
Do we are we able to have a conversation? Can you push back when I say something?
Those are the things that we look for.
Then once we narrow down and say cuz we received the CVs, we said, "Okay, you have the basic education that we require, so let's check out your values."
Once we're okay with the values, then now we come into the technical and then now we interview for the technical and then we're able to make a decision. By and large it has worked very well. Um I mean we have lost a couple of people along the way but I would say quite well so far.

24:24
So that's where the people conversation has been
when it comes to the creating of the culture. What we had wanted to do was to create a place where people love to work.
And reason is we work a lot.
I mean the reality of work is you spend majority of your waking hours.
Yes. working whether you're working from home or you're working from an office that's just the reality of where we are.
So if you're not working in a place you love
then where are you working? You're working in a place that's stressing you out
that is not appreciating your genius that is not appreciating you know what you're capable of that isn't giving you opportunities to grow yourself. So that is what we wanted to create and what we did was think about so what are some of the things that we want to see and we don't want to see. M

25:10
so one thing we wanted to see was of course high level performance
but if you're getting if you want high level performance from a person then you need to facilitate them in the sense then have you given them good equipment
are you giving them opportunities
a lot of professionals start their beginner if say they're youngsters they start them off on very rudimentary work you know you're doing clucking you're doing errands you don't really get into the yummy the yummy work
be be great be be grateful that you have a job work.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
What are you doing asking for work? Who cares?
Be grateful that you have a job and a salary at the end of the month.
Absolutely.

25:51
But for us, we throw our people into the deep end. And in fact, one of the jocular things that goes on in the office is the guy say when you come in at Ichiban day one, you have an inbox that has work waiting for you.
So you don't come out, you don't come in and hang out.
No, no, no, no. We'll do the tour. We'll let you know what the policies are. But when you sit down with your laptop, you have work
because that is what we hired you for and we have an expectation of what we want from that.
So it's a deep end. Yes. But you will be supported through it. Yes.
So that's a culture we wanted to create.
Uh we also wanted to ensure that people are comfortable. So our offices are done in such a way that there's quite a lot of ergonomics that goes into it. So the interior design does come to play. So we have standing desks. We have, you know, screens that allow you to sit upright. So you don't have to be, you know, typing away furiously. You can actually sit upright. Make sure that the backbone is well protected. Cuz then if that

26:51 happens, then you work better. You're not there rubbing your neck and trying to figure out, you know, when am I getting out of this? Absolutely. And you deliver better work.
We care about you. We care about your family. And you know, it might sound very cliche, but the reality is if I care about you, chances are you'll care more about my business than if I didn't. So that's what we've really been trying to create.
Yeah.
Okay.
And um it's been a 4-year journey. So where do you think you are now in that journey?
Do you have the the firm that you desire or or is there still work to be done? speaking as today
there's definitely work to be done in the sense that we are in an industry that is very rigid.

27:36
Yes.
So we're talking this is this is the confluence of tax of uh tax law and tax accounting.
So two very rigid businesses coming together
to try and create something that is you know beautiful
not easy. And for me the thing that really can I say is really up my alley right now is how do we innovate in this space
that is so regulated because tax law is tax law. You can't change the tax law to suit yourself. Yes.
You know the accounting principles are the accounting principles. You can't change them to suit yourself.
So where does innovation come into this question?
And that's a question that for me is really the thing right now. How are we innovating? And for me, innovation isn't just about creating, let's say, an app or, you know, some funky, snazzy technical thing. That would be great, but that's not the only way.

28:28
So, innovation could also be in terms of how we work.
Innovation could be in terms of how we deliver. Yes.
So, those are things that for me are important and also because a lot of the older tax practices have remained very stoic in their way of doing things. It's been the same way it's being done today.
Question is, is it still going to be the same way it's being done in 10 or 15 years?
If we think about it, in 10 or 15 years, the people who will be the CEOs and the tax managers are the guys who are 25 years old today.
Yes.
So, will they be happy with that level of service that has been there for the last 40 years? I don't think so. So how do we ensure we're ahead of that game by the time that guy is getting to the top and you know we having that CFO how can we ensure that she is being served in a way that she is happy with and is getting the results that she desires.

29:19
Interesting.
So let's then double in the future. Let's dream a bit and see where what the f so what does the future hold for Ichibang? What do you see it morphing into?
How how far do you want to push it?
All right.
Yeah. So first of all, we are not very keen to grow in terms of number very much. We don't want to have a massive, you know, 2,000 advisor practice. So what's the number? That's not that's not the that's possibly 30 30 to 50 maximum. Yes, that would be so 18 plus where you are now.
Exactly. So that would probably be it. But then in terms of reach, then we would want to be able to reach as far as we possibly can.
So starting off with uh Eastern Africa and then moving beyond that. And that doesn't necessarily mean having physical presence, but it does mean having expertise, having connections, and having the ability to maneuver almost seamlessly within those different environments.

30:15
Is there anything this innovation that you speak about the number that you're talking about? 30 is not too far from 12, you know, it's just 18 away. But is that innovation is that tools like because the thing about routine work? Yeah. or or regimented work. It's uh the one that AI is coming from. Absolutely.
So in your innovation journey, has AI featured in your conversations? Does that is that why you feel you'll be able to still grow regionally yet maintain your numbers at at at 30?
I think so. And um I once listened to a lady giving a talk and about AI and how we should navigate AI. And I thought she did a brilliant piece because she said, you know, the reality is AI is here. Yes.

31:00
Fact.
It's going nowhere.
It's going nowhere. In fact, it's getting better.
In fact, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was reading an article about Chad GPT5 and apparently it's coming out this month and it'll really shock us.
Absolutely. So, we can't run away from AI.
But then the question is what value do we have to add to what AI is able to give us? Yes. and she was a lecturer and what she did is when she was giving her exams instead of saying you know here's your assignment you know don't use any AI or whatever she gives a question and says here feed this into whatever AI you want to this is the question
the assignment from you is what is your value ad to what AI spits out
okay

31:39
wow and that for me is the question
what value are we then able to bring to what AI spits out okay
because then there's some certain nuances that AI I can't navigate. It can't navigate personality.
It can't navigate, you know, a random occurrence, you know, uh the president wakes ups and decides, you know, there's a certain tax. It hasn't seen it before. So, it doesn't know how to navigate it yet. So, how are you able to navigate that?
Nice.
Yeah. So, that's that's that's a value that we would want to bring.
Oh, that's that's quite something. I mean, you speak to things several things that I hold very dear. Uh first the the the systems piece is is one that's very personal to me and I feel is a huge opportunity in our market.

32:22
The user experience both for from a staff perspective and correspondingly from the customer perspective.
Um but um also this just this culture of innovation and change and how important culture is in organization.
Um so it's very interesting to see and and I've learned a lot. Maybe we'll be talking about other matters in in the future,
but that's not the only thing you do as
one would think that that was it. But now randomly we you you still have taken some of your passions and uh um out of pure self-interest you still double in them. So maybe you can tell us a bit about that and the work that you do. Um because I think one of the greatest way to get a passion to thrive is if you're able to monetize it.

33:11
Absolutely.
So tell us about your your work in design. The one which your mom refused you to go and study. Yeah.
And it's been such an interesting journey because I started off when I worked in one of the law firms when I was doing a shift between working as a lawyer and getting into management.
Yes. Then I got to dabble in a bit of project management for a construction.
Yes.
And
in the law firm.
At the law firm. Yeah. So they were building up their their building and they're like, you know, here, you know, do a few things, you know, help us out and uh let's get this show on the road.
And I was very excited by that and I learned a lot. And beyond that, then I started now to assist on projects. So if you needed to do us um a partitioning, you know, I would then be the one managing that. And it got to a point where over the last few years I've been able to project manage interior design projects for various offices. Uh some of them I must say look absolutely fantastic. Okay.

34:07
Yes. Very world class.
Yes.
And um I've done a kindergarten. I've done a kinderg I've done a home.
And one of the things that brings me great joy is that when you look at that home a lot of people are like this looks like a lord you know based somewhere in LA. and you're like wow that's that's my word that's so it's absolutely fantastic so I I really enjoy the design element and I think one of the things for me with design is just how user friendly it needs to be
so beauty is important but if the beauty is not practical
agreed
then there's a problem because if I have to you know suck in my tummy to pass between stuff then there's a problem if I'm constantly needing to and I'll give you an example of a kitchen cuz I know you're in the restaurant space I love to cook

34:51
and u my I I like my kitchen nice and large. I like people in the kitchen.
So, when we were building our home, our kitchen is very much user oriented.
And one of the things that is very annoying about kitchens, it's storage space. Yes.
Because we have all these cabinets that you open out like this.
And then you put your stuff in.
And then when you need to get the bowl that is at the back,
you have to take everything out.
Yes.
To access the bowl.
Yes.
And now you have to put everything back in again. M.
And a lot of the times what happens is you don't put it back in the way it was.
So now it's a mess.
So next time you're looking for a bowl, you can't find it cuz it's not in its place.

35:29
So what we then did with our kitchen is our kitchen does not have cabinets, has drawers.
And the beauty about drawers is that you can reach every single nook of that drawer. You can arrange your stuff well every single time.
Yeah.
And I love it.
The height is done up to, you know, cuz we people don't think that the height of a counter matters. But depending on your height, there's a height at which the counter doesn't work for you.
Yes. You start getting tired in your shoulders and wonder why don't I like washing dishes? It's cuz you're stooping into the sink.
Agreed.
So our kitchen is very user friendly. Excellent. Yes.
Uh we had Eugene GooGi of planning interiors here and one of the statements that he made he says um good design is good business.

36:13
Yes.
And I can I I agree with that and relate to it very well.
Yeah. But maybe as we as we wind up or give you a chance to just speak to the audience, tell them about Ichiban. I don't know if your interior design services are too are out there or but just give a chance to to to talk about the farm so that anyone who's tuning in and is interested in contacting where can they find you? Where are you? What are your handles on social media and on on websites and the rest?
All right. What a privilege. So I get to do two. So we'll start off with Ichiban uh Ichiban tax and business advisory. So we are very much centered on and I know people like to say this uh that we are very client oriented but we are and one of the things that has given us great joy is when clients come back and tell us you know one of the things we love about you is that you're available and we come in and we get to understand your

37:06 business and because of that we're able to give you solutions that tend to be a little different from what everyone else in the market is able to give you. Where can you find us? If you search Ichiban tax and business advisory, you will find us on Instagram, you'll find us on Twitter, you'll find us on LinkedIn and you are most welcome to just check us out and engage with us at that level. We do have an office situated at Chaka Place. So Karibana there you can come and check out the interior design that was done there as well. And for interior design, I think one of the things that for me is really important is creating beautiful spaces that make sense. And are we up for grabs? Absolutely. As you can imagine, while running a tax practice, I don't get to do enough of this, but I absolutely welcome any opportunity to provide, you know, something in interior design. And um

37:55 finally, in terms of just principles in life, I believe that if you're able to create good order, then a lot of other things fall into place, whether it's in the home or within the business. So, I think that will be it.
Yeah.
Excellent. Um before I wind up, I'll throw a challenge to you which you can choose to ignore or take up.
Wowers. Uhhuh.
I I I dare say that your your your your service you are offering the law firms and let me let me let me say you are offering it to law firms but I think it's a service that is required for professionals generally. Yeah. in the market with the advent of AI and the the shortening of the time for doing the rather rout routine tasks. I I I would encourage you to look at that um model again and see if that business because I

38:51 I believe quite strongly that is a missing link in our market and uh you sound like you enjoy it one and two that you're really good at it. Um and that I think would serve very many businesses well and and in the process convince the doctors to be to be one of the people who who sign up for that service.
I actually did it for one doctor. And we need it's one of the places I say all all we used to have 15minute conversations with my OB/GYN the birth of all my three kids and I sit down and tell him but it doesn't it doesn't have to be this difficult surely you know we can come we can say 10:00 can be 10:00
and and I can come at 10 and I see you for an hour and I go
do my business I can't come at 10 and I'm seeing you at 2 because and and and that's the way it is. It can't be the way it is.

39:49
So Carol, thank you very much for a very fascinating conversation. Very interesting business. So ladies and gentlemen, that was Carol Kayuki of Ichiban Tax and Business Advisory and we made a discovery in the midst of the podcast that she's also uh doubles in interior design. So please feel free to reach out to her and the farm on the handles that she mentions. And thank you very much for joining us on the African Do podcast. Please do subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify and we continue to tell stories of African excellent Africans executing excellently.
So thank you very much and see you in the next episode.