Dr. Boit Kiptolo — transcript

NextGen Sports Academy

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:05 Greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 57 of the African Do Podcast. Today we are very privileged to have with us Dr. Boyt Kipchoge, our first sports-related guest. We're going to talk a bit about sports entrepreneurship. Dr. Boyt is the founder of Next Gen Sports Academy and Next Gen Foundation. And we're going to discuss things sports. Dr. Boyt, welcome to the African Do Podcast.
me. I'm glad to be here. I love speaking all things sports.
Excellent. So So Dr. Boyt, um Uh you look younger than me. Let me start there. Uh but that said, sports is not really Yes, it's now emerging as a as a mainstream career, but it's not been the case. Um at least not in a Kenyan context. So let's start back with you and your history, yeah? How did you get into sports? Uh where where were you raised? And how did you find yourself in in this sports environment? Or how did you What

1:09 inspired you to pursue sports as a career that you wanted to?
Uh okay. So maybe I'll start with where I was raised and cuz that's going to change the story heavily.
Mhm.
So I went to Strathmore School for my primary. So just here in Lavington.
Mhm.
So the thing I loved about Strathmore was that we were allowed to play and sample as many sports as possible. So PE was my favorite lesson. Favorite lesson. So we used to do different sports every time. Like term one we would do football and volleyball. Term two we would do basketball. I mean we'd do rugby and football. Term three we'd do something else. So I loved it. I I I got exposed to so many sports and I just love sports with all my heart and soul. But at that point, I was more intrigued about how electricity and how machines work. So, I always thought I would be an engineer.

2:06
Okay.
Yeah, that was initially my my plan. So, in fact, I used to in like class four, class five, my parents had to buy me a physics book for secondary so that I can actually just cuz I had reached a limit. Yeah, reached a limit. I was trying to play around with magnets and all that. So, yeah. So, I didn't really think there was anything in sports. Um fast forward sec- So, fast forward um towards class seven, class eight, my favorite sports were football, basketball, rugby.
Mhm.
But for some reason, I was really good at swimming.
Mhm.
So, over time, uh I went to a school in secondary school in form one where we had nothing other than just a good swimming pool that was around.

2:47
Okay.
So, that forced me to explore my love for swimming and I had a coach there who really encouraged me. And I raised the ranks in swimming. So, basketball was my main sport going into form one.
Mhm.
But that year when I worked with that coach, my swimming really improved till I was able to qualify for the highest level of swimming in the country.
Mhm.
So, I qualified for that and then after the discussion we were having with my parents was A H 4 4 was heavy. Should I switch to uh cuz I was really getting good. And I just told my folks, "Look, this is I want to take this swimming to the next level. I just don't have the time. Evening preps, morning preps, I it's too much."

3:24
It's heavy.
My parents are progressive so they're like, "Fine. If you promise to sign this performance contract,
Mhm.
we'll switch you to a Cambridge school."
Okay.
Luckily at that school, they offered me like a 40% or 50% scholarship at the time.
Mhm.
So, it was a bit more affordable. So, I moved to Aga Khan Academy and I was able to pursue sports at a high level. So, I joined a very good the best club at the time. It was called Otters. And trained at a high level. So, at that time I was still struggling a bit with my with my swimming. So, she was able now to get me to the next level. Yeah, my new coach. Yeah, she took me to the next level. Still played other sports. I can't lie

4:05 to you. Football, basketball was still my love, my first love. Still sort of even today if you were to ask me, I I I still sort of love football and basketball. Yeah, so was able to qualify for the junior national team. The I think I was 16 or 17. So, I I rose the ranks from being one of the weakest in the best performing uh competitions to now one of the strongest. So, when I got to about 17, my I had reached I think I was ranked number one in Kenya. One or two depending on those again close to was quite good. So, the competition had really I was competing against myself basically in Kenya. So, my coach convinced my parents, let's try to look for opportunities in South Africa. So, I actually finished year 11, did year 12 the first term, and then I went to South Africa. So, when I went to South Africa, I was able to join a high the high performance

4:58 program there. So, it was very intense. We're training 11 times a week.
Okay.
So, morning, afternoon, there was gym sometimes in the middle of the day. So, then I finished my high school there. So, now it's when I was deciding, what do I do with my life?
Where are we from a timeline perspective?
That's now I'm finishing high school, so trust more than went to high school, switched to Aga Khan, and then after Aga Khan when I finished uh year 11, I went temporarily to another school called Premier Schools for just one term to do year 12. Then I went to South Africa to finish year 12 secondary there.
And what year is this?
That was to gosh, I was 17. That must have been 2006 or 7. Yeah, 2006 or 7.

5:39
Mhm.
So, that point I was deciding, am I going to go do engineering? I'd actually done my applications to a few schools to do electrical engineering. I had looked at medicine also. I had looked at quite a number of programs I was looking at. But I actually met a guidance counselor who changed my life there in the high school I was in.
In South Africa?
Yeah, so we went through we went through a something where she just walked me through like what do you enjoy doing? What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? So of course biology was always my my top ranking subject since she checked my historical grades.
Yes.
And geography but geography didn't play in and sports was always my what I spoke about mostly. So how do you combine those two? So that's how she told me, I think you need to follow a career in sports science and sports medicine cuz it combines the human body and combines uh sports. So that's how I landed onto that career and it was lucky enough there's a university in South Africa which also had a high performance center

6:36 that was there. So basically that's how I entered sports. So maybe that answers your question of how did I end up in a career
undergraduate?
So I did sports science and also combined it with medical bioscience or just the the biological aspect of it. And then for my masters now I went to Hong Kong. I studied sports medicine and health science. Then I finished my PhD here at KE U in sports science.
Let's start with your undergrad and and just for the layman like myself. What is that degree? What What is it? What do you do?
Ah, okay.
Yeah.
80% of it is biology, chemistry, biology chem and biochem.
Mhm.
So looking at how the human body works. That's what we did for the first like two years.

7:20
Yeah.
Then the remainder you apply that into a sports setting. So how is that applied in a sports setting? Oh sorry, plus physics.
Okay.
So all the sciences applied in sports. So the first two years generally in fact you were with pharmacists, dentists doing the general like first two years in anatomy, physiology, all that. And then now How do in applying it into a sport setting?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then you go to Hong Kong.
Then I went to Hong Kong. So by that time I was in the national team, sorry. So actually swam world championships in 2010.
Okay.
Swam all African games 20, I've forgotten the year, but I won two bronze medals there. So I was I was an averagely good swimmer. It's not I can't say I was the best in Africa, but in terms of Kenya, I was within the top five.

8:07
Yes.
I always used to be able to make it to the national team.
Okay.
So what training heavily at that time?
Okay.
But I quit in second year.
Okay.
I quit I quit swimming.
Quit swimming?
Quit swimming third year, sorry, third year.
For national or just competitively?
I completely cuz the experience I had swimming for the country was just terrible.
Mhm. Tell tell us a bit more about that.
So again, you know, you train quite hard and they don't they don't value.
Mhm.
So so you go for trips you're supposed to be paid an allowance, you're not paid. You're supposed to sleep in specific accommodations, you don't sleep. You're supposed to be paid for your ticket, sometimes they tell you to pay for your ticket, they refund you, they don't refund you. I won two bronze medals at all African games, I was supposed to get prize money, you don't get. I was just like, why? It's exhausting.

8:59
Oh, really?
Yeah, I did it for myself for a long time, but now I was at a place I was deciding studies versus academics. I mean studies versus sports. So where will I So I wasn't seeing no future in swimming. I saw no future. So I was just like
And so you got a front row seat to you know, you're told to work hard at something, you did.
Yes.
But then now based on what you're telling us, it's the system that let you down. Yeah? You think you Do you feel you would have had a longer career as a professional swimmer if you had the support?
For sure.
Yeah.
I for sure would have continued. In fact, just that situation cuz I started swimming at an elite level later, so I would have peaked late. I didn't even reach my peak. I was at like 50% or 60%. But yeah, I would have had a longer career, but there was no incentive.

9:47
Okay.
There was like I I couldn't see the bigger picture after that.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, ultimately, you were starting to to build a career, right?
Yeah.
So, as you're going through this, like what's what did you go to employment-wise or or business-wise uh post undergrad and later on as you develop your your your learning?
So, the thing I loved about the guidance counselor, she told me start with your passion, which is Okay, don't let me say this in It's not an African thing. It's quite a white thing, and she was a white guidance counselor. So, she was just like, "Look, follow your passion, and you'll find a way."
Yes.
You'll find a way. So, I didn't have a plan.
Mhm.

10:29
So, in undergrad, I used to conjure up these uh ideas in terms of having a high-performance center that I was going to come and set up
in Kenya.
Yeah. That was my idea, and also working with the federations, cuz I wanted impact. I used to see, "How can I impact as many athletes as possible?" Also, for me, was working with the federations or working with the National Olympic Committee.
Yes.
That's what I had envisioned, and that's what I used to dream and breathe.
Okay.
Yeah. So, that was what I thought was available for me. Thought
And what was the reality?
The reality is
when you finished your undergrad
So, when I finished my undergrad, I went straight to masters, so I decided let me just finish this thing, these papers

11:04
Mhm.
and do people keep talking about, and just come and start working. So, after masters is when I came back and started working. So, when I came back, I tried it all. I I tried it all. I went to all federations you can think of in Kenya, including cricket.
Mhm.
I never played cricket in my life.
Mhm.
But I actually went to all federations. I went to National Olympic Committee. I think I wrote almost 10 letters to them. I went to
you
them? What are you doing to them and asking?
So, basically, I was telling them, "These are my qualifications. This is what I've seen cuz luckily, when I was I've been an elite athlete. I worked temporarily and undergrad I was assisting with running coaching cuz you know, I was from Kenya, so guess what? Ah, this guy must know and he's a colleague. He must know how to coach runners. I was helping coach some young runners. In Hong Kong, I used to help out with injuries with athletes.

11:59 So, I had a bit of hands-on experience. I was young, granted, but I had worked. And then also, luckily for my masters, we worked at a hospital, so I got to do some hands-on experience. So, yeah, so I was just asking I was just telling them, "These are my qualifications. Can I come and help you guys implement sports science and sports medicine practices within your federations?"
Okay.
Data analytics, technology, sports medicine, sports science. Tried it all. Wrote many letters, but luckily, so the only federation that actually absorbed me was Kenya Rugby.
Okay.
Yeah. The cur- the the current CEO, Thomas Odondo, is quite forward-thinking. So, at the time, he was the director of rugby.

12:41
Yes.
If I'm not wrong.
Mhm.
So, he he saw he saw the viability of this. So, he was like, "Come on and we can see how we can work with you."
Okay.
So, I brought I came on and I used to do statistics analysis. I used to help them with nutrition, help them with injuries. You know, just general just help them with support, overall sports science support. But again, uh months went and I was never paid.
Okay.
So, that reached a point where I think eight months or nine months I'd reached and hadn't paid me. The bill had reached 1.3 million.
Mhm.
I was just like, "Whoa. This will be tough."
Mhm.
So, I just told Luckily, at the time that they had Thomas uh had Uh he told me, "Hey, I think you need to take a break. I've really chased this money, but I'm not being able to pay you. So, take a break and we see how we can work it out." So, you know, politics of federations, huh? He were trying to do the right thing, but didn't work out. So, they didn't pay me. So, that's how Next Gen was born, out of frustration.

13:36
Okay.
Yeah. Oh, sorry. I also tried Kenya Academy of Sports. Same thing. I even got an official letter from the outgoing CEO at that time who told the new CEO, "This guy has many skills. Utilize him." And me, I told them I'll do it for free.
Mhm.
Cuz luckily, sorry, I forgot to tell you at that time I was already pursuing my PhD and I'd luckily gotten a assistant lecturer job. So, that's fine. I was sorted. Salo was sorted. So, now let me give back to Kenya. So, all these things I wanted to do a lot of the time were for free other than Kenya Rugby because there I invested in some equipment.
Okay.
Which I needed to make a return on investment on. But, the other ones in terms of setting up policies and structures, I was willing to do it for free.

14:15
Okay.
So, that's how Next Gen was born out of frustration.
And what is What does What at that time what was Next Gen?
So, actually, sorry, the first Next Gen was the one we were doing statistics and analysis and sports and support for teams.
Okay.
That died out. So, the new Next Gen that was born was I realized if we were to develop talent in Kenya, we need to start with the kids.
Yes.
Cuz that's the challenge you're having. When I was at Kenya Rugby, I identified something very unique. Our athletes are doing basic things when they're adults. So, that's what I used to wonder. They're being taught how to pass. They're being taught how to do a scrum and a ruck. They're being taught how to do a lineout technique. These are things that I should have been taught when they were 10 years. So, that's when I realized this is where

15:02 the gap is. Is that a lot of these guys are not being taught these proper technical skills when they're young. So, let me open up something that's private, something that has no influence with the federations, with the ministry,
Okay.
and just see what I can do.
Okay.
Even though even though the numbers are few, let me just start somewhere. That's how Next Gen Multi Sports Academy
Okay.
was born.
Mhm.
Yeah.
And so, what do you start with?
So my concept was very different from other academies. My concept was expose the kids to as many sports when they're young and then slowly reduce cuz that's the best talent development pathway. We always hear about our Serena and Venus they always play tennis from they're four. Tiger Woods played tennis when he was four. Those are the outliers.

15:42
Yes.
Majority of the best athletes in the world have been in a multi-sport environment or if not explored a few things when they were young.
Yeah.
Except a few exceptional athletes that you hear here and there. 90% of them are from multi-sport backgrounds and yeah, so that was my concept.
Mhm.
So I started off with six sports. We were stationed in Upper Hill. Just started in the heat of No, no, in COVID. I mean at Public Service Club in Upper Hill.
Public Service Club.
We started just in the heat of COVID. So we actually had to close multiple times. Kept opening, closing. You remember how there was lockdown?
Yes, yes.
Yeah, so that's when we started.
Okay. And what are the six sports you were offering?

16:22
Football, basketball, rugby, swimming, athletics, and tennis.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
kids who are eight and under do all the sports. When you get to eight you drop you do three sports.
Mhm.
At 12 you would then decide are you going to do one or two sports?
When when do they get to do this?
Like what do you mean?
What day of the week do they
Okay, okay. We started off with
I assume they're in school and well
We started off with Friday, Saturday Saturday, Sunday.
Mhm.
Then included Monday.
Mhm.
And then it was a hard sell to parents but finally I convinced them Wednesday and Monday.
Okay.
So we're doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and then Sunday is optional for the guys who would miss.

16:57
And I'll assume Monday and Wednesday after school.
the afternoons.
Yes.
So the younger ones sometimes would get there 3:30, the older ones would get there 4:30.
Okay.
So that's a huge sacrifice on the
And getting what? A couple of hours?
We used to start at 3:30 and end at 6:30 so three hours.
Okay.
For the younger ones. For the older ones two and a half.
Okay.
Which
Okay.
For the younger ones they would a bit so we are not so strict to the babies. Yeah, so about let's say 2 and 1/2 hours of solid training.
Okay. So that's about 2 and 1/2 hours per session. 3 4 sessions a week.
Yeah.
You are getting in about 10 hours 10 odd hours of training weekly.

17:34
Yeah, weekly for the kids.
Okay, what what was the result?
So
you see in those early kids that you are doing that running that program with?
First of all they loved it so you could tell the kids can't even tell what they love. Like once you expose them to many sports
Yeah.
Like today they'll tell you like tennis no tomorrow I like football. And then later you see a parent has brought a child and said this child is going to be the next football star. But you find that they are one of the best tennis players you've ever seen. So you know giving them that range actually opened up and I just realized that our kids are so different. So we shouldn't lock them and put them in a box and say my child is going to be an

18:10 X.
Yeah.
Allow them to explore a bit more when they are younger so the results were fantastic.
Okay.
Growth was a bit slower and I'll tell you why it's cuz when we go for tournaments and matches we would get beaten because my kids have not specialized yet in one sport.
Yes.
While the other kids are getting 8 hours Yes, doing one sport.
Yes.
So the parents used to come and ask me oh Boito our kids are not winning I told them guys be patient. This is the long game. These kids are eight. Who cares what they do when they are eight? But it was a hard sell. It was a hard sell cuz parents want results. So that was the challenge I had.
Okay.
Yeah.
Let me take you back we'll come back to the sports academy but I got a I got I got a sense of quite a bit of frustration and maybe because you you were in South Africa. South Africa is an African country. Um the environment you you learned in you know you trained in yeah. Um was was quite sports focused you know elite training centers. Yet when you come and interact with the Kenyan system, you you I sense a strong

19:16 sense of frustration. Yeah, you even said you quit well before your prime
Yeah.
in sports.
Yeah.
Maybe let's speak about our sports and my one of the challenges I have with us as a country is I feel there's a big disconnect between what we say and what we do.
Yeah.
You know, and Kenya is extremely fortunate to have a natural base of sports talent. Um I've had friends who've played elite rugby, who've elite athletes. And almost all of them can have a story like yours in some shape or form.
Everyone. I tell you everyone has.
Um and you wonder yet we we we are producing uh year on year Kenya is the top African country at the Olympics, you know. Um So, I I sometimes tend to wonder what does Kenya look like if we're doing it right? Because we do get a lot of it it it it it's painful to hear you say yeah, all federations are like that. You know, there there may be one or two who are generally trying or or change for some season when leadership changes, but

20:32 generally it's it's frustrating. So, what does sports look like to you? Or maybe let me rephrase that. What would you do for sports in Kenya if you were to start us on a journey of building more robust structures from a policy perspective?
Okay, so I'll tell you the challenge. So, the number one, the reason Kenya is challenged, we don't deserve like rugby, I have no idea how we are winning at sevens. I can't explain it other than just God and genetics and talent. There's no reason. Even our runners in eternal like it was I think it's just right timing, right genetics as in it's it's a one it's a marvel. Cuz there are no systems. Even in athletics by the way, we think that the systems are quite many, but majority of the systems have been brought by Europeans and Americans and those have brought a bit of structure in athletics, but within our own systems there's nothing. But I think sports is just a symptom of the global issues in in Kenya. So until we address the underlying cause of majority of these cuz you know in recently I was just listening to on about you know my wife works at I mean she's she's just

21:49 finished her residency at Kenyatta Hospital and she's working in the pediatric department. There's no food in hospitals. There's no saline normal saline. You know what is a basic drug. So it's not just sports. It's it's everywhere and I think we need to fix the general systems in Kenya cuz even if I try to come and introduce specific policies and specific structures, it doesn't work unless we're all on the same path as a country. So that's the challenge I've had. Like even after I try to bring in sports and technology within federations and it's fantastic, but doesn't move forward because it's a global problem and I don't know what
What is that global problem in your by your assessment and experience?

22:37
It's just lack of ethics, lack of values, lack of morals. I think that's what's plaguing us completely as an African nation. The complete utter disregard for others.
Yes.
Yeah, I don't know. I keep saying we are cursed. I don't know. I don't know if from the biblical times there's a curse that was that was was here in Africa due to the Egyptians that has left us in this state. I don't know. I can't explain it.
Yeah.
But for some reason we still survive.
Yeah.
Like financially, I don't know even how in Kenya we are surviving cuz just I think we just I don't know.
Okay.
I can't explain it.
We'll come back to that, but let's now go to Next Gen. So, you start with this um in the pandemic, so I'd say that was around 2020, right? Um what has Next Gen now evolved into today?

23:28
Okay. So, first forward, my financial model did not work.
Okay, that was multi-sport multi-sport yeah.
Because the numbers, cuz you know I have six sports, so I need six coaches. Of course, there are some girls the both there's girls and boys, so some parents will be like why isn't there a female coach? So, I need 12 coaches now for each sport. And I need to pay for different facilities. Where I was, I was paying for the field differently, I was paying for the swimming pool differently, and I'm paying for the tennis court. So, the numbers I would require for each be financially viable were not working. So, it's just the numbers that now I just had to focus on the two most uh the the two best sports.

24:11
Okay.
I'm not two best, sorry, the ones that are bringing in the most money, just swimming and football.
Okay.
And which but which broke my heart when I broke that with that model of mine stopped. It broke my heart. I still believe in it.
Mhm.
I still believe wholeheartedly in that model, but financially it was not working. And then you remember there was elections.
Yeah.
And then you remember the economy took a downturn.
Yeah.
So, I really had to lean it down. So, now it's football swimming. Children pick one or the other or they can try combine both if possible if they but they pay for them separately.
Okay.
So, that's a new model. Two different sports, but the way I've structured it is a bit different.

24:44
Okay.
Like in swimming for my younger kids, I usually tell the parents if your child is six and under, do not bring them here more than three days a week. One or two is ideal. Enroll them in other academies or enroll them in music, enroll them in other things. So, I'm still trying to implement the multi-sport. So, So, I'm educating the kids the parents of the younger kids. Even though you've come here for swimming,
Yes.
this cannot be all they're doing.
Yes.
Yeah. So, that's basically what has changed. And financially, it has worked better cuz I have fewer coaches now. It's in a more controlled environment. I'm paying for fewer fields. I pray maybe one day I can go back to the initial model.

25:18
Mhm.
That would require funding. So, I did the financial I did the business case and it needs external funding.
Okay.
Yeah.
And where do you where do where do you you where do sports is related to land, right? Because you have to have So, where do you train?
So, we train at St. Nicholas Senior School in on Gong Road.
Yes.
They've been lucky enough to where they've been gracious enough to lease it out to us in the afternoons and the evenings when they're not using it. So, we're we're able to have an agreement. So, most of us just have to
for the swimming pool and the
Yeah, both for swimming and football.
Okay.
So, for most of us who run sports programs, we just have to figure out how to

25:54
Okay.
Yeah.
So, what has stood now with the two sports that you're maybe let's get a bit technical and into the how, right? So, what does Next Gen Sport Academy swimming program look like?
Okay, so my swimming program is quite different from others.
Mhm.
I try utilize a scientific approach so that Cuz okay, let me just trail back.
Mhm.
Swimming has a huge drop-off rate.
Yes.
At about 13, about 90%
I can relate my my children are swimmer.
Ah, okay.
And that drop-off rate, I can relate to it, yeah.
About 90% of the kids are just like, "What What is this? We're training all day every day, morning, afternoons." So, the training is quite heavy. So, I'm trying to implement a scientific approach that can then reduce the sessions just slightly. Even of course the time the time has to be put in. There's there's no running away from hard work.

26:45
Mhm.
But we use science to try and bring that a bit. So, making sure our coaching is scientific. We do a lot of video analysis, we do psychology, so just small tricks here and there to try and see how we can reduce the amount of hours the kids are swimming. Uh piloting that to see how that works. So, that has been our swimming program. So, we train a lot in less than most clubs and our results have been equal if not sometimes better
Yeah.
than some of the best clubs in in Kenya, which has validated the model.
Mhm.
Yeah.
Okay. Okay. And football, what does the football program look like?
So, I'll give you We'll have to go back now to 2011 about the foundation. So, let's go back to the foundation.

27:26
Okay.
So, I established the foundation in 2022 or 2023. 2022, yes. So, what had happened is that anything I do, I like giving back to the community. So, I decided to come up with a program where I support kids from Kibera to come and play in our multi-sport program.
Mhm.
So, they came and for honestly, we used to just be marveled at the kind of talent that some of these kids have. And they used to push themselves. You know, while our kids from the suburbs are complaining, "Oh, it's hot. Oh, my knee is paining. Oh, I have a cold." These kids are putting their life on the line to play sports. That's when something came up. I was just like, "Maybe there's something here. These might be the kids

28:07 who deserve." Of course, we're not taking away our suburban kids do need sports, but these kids need it more. This is their lifeline for some of them. That's how Next Gen Foundation was born to see how we can support more of these kids to get them to if sports can be a way out. So, fast forward. So, when I migrated, so I moved from public service club where we were to St. Nicholas Senior School. So, when we migrated, a lot of people dropped off from the academy.
Yeah.
But the people who stuck were the swimmers. So, the swimming program was thriving, but the football program struggled a bit. So, I had to put a pause on the football program. In fact, I decided I was just doing swimming only.

28:44
Yeah.
That was my plan. I was like, "Ah, let me swim. Swimming is the thing I know. Let me focus on swimming.
Mhm. But I couldn't sleep at night because I'm remembering these 50 We had actually grown to about 50 kids who were supporting from Kibera. I couldn't sleep cuz I was wondering like where are these kids now?
What became of them, yeah.
So I reached out to our liaison in Kibera and I told him, "Boss, I don't have the money, but just bring the kids back twice a week. And let's see how what we can do with them." So I uh they they came back. So the kids from Kibera came back. We just started with them. I had no financial model for that. But luckily some paying clients started coming in, so it became financially viable again.

29:27
Paying clients started coming in to support you?
No, no, to to pay to enroll in the academy. So luckily the field now is sorted and all that. But what I've done, I partnered with my with my cousin to help me run the football side cuz running different sports requires a lot of So he's the one who's managing football, but I oversee, of course, the entire academy, but he manages mostly football. And it's growing.
Yes.
It's now growing. We enrolled in a league this year. So the kids are getting And then for the first time this year now we are paying school fees for the kids. And I've been able to move some of the kids from public schools to private schools. So the foundation is growing in terms of funding also. So the football program is 70% scholarship kids, 30% paying clients, but of course I can even out at 50/50 once the business grows.

30:13 And we continue to see how we can impact these kids. Make sure they stay in school and play sports. And also we mentor them.
So when you talk about sponsorship for the foundation, I know sponsorship for any foundation is quite important. So where are you getting sponsorship from? Who's sponsoring and and what does your ideal sponsor at Next Gen Foundation look like?
So luckily God has been good to us and maybe I didn't tell you about this, but I I got saved maybe a year or two years ago. One of the things that God tells us we have to It's It's It's not a request, but it's something a command. We have to give back.
Yes.
So, I use So, 90% of the money is funded through the profits that we make.

30:54
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, every month even though the financial model is not making sense, I just deposit money into the foundation account. And that's what has survived has helped us survive. Luckily, Mayfair Insurance came on board to support 16 kids
Okay.
fully. Okay, the school fees fully. So, that has taken away Now, we have us You don't have to support school fees twice the other 30 something. So, yeah, it has mostly been us. My deal sponsor would be Yeah, people like Mayfair Insurance who would
Corporate sponsors.
Corporate sponsors who would come on board and if they don't trust me, I give you the school fees account and I'm like, pay here.
Mhm.
Let me not touch my account if you do not trust me.

31:36
Mhm.
Uh food, pay to this rest the Ziziki Banda that she eats good. Pay directly to this lady.
Mhm.
Pay her and don't come and pay us. So, those are the kind of sponsorships we're looking at. It's been a struggle. We have tried applying for grants, but we have a challenge. Every grant keeps saying, you must have been in existence for 5 years. You must have a track record of fundraising. You must have We don't have all that. So, we are just slowly building our portfolio. So, we'll be hitting 5 years maybe next year or I don't know when. Like I need to go back check the trust deed.
Yeah.
So, once that grant funding is opened But, also I'm very particular with who I accept money from.

32:12
Yeah.
We have to be aligned in terms of faith, philosophically. I'm not going to take money from people who are doing illegal things and coming to whitewash their money. So, yeah. So, right now it's a struggle. It's just We've been blessed cuz I think the more I support the kids, the more God blesses me.
Okay. Okay. Wow. Um I want us to I want I want us to talk to I want us to speak to that corporate sponsorship a bit more, yeah? Um but speak to it from the perspective of if you if you on the foundation on the foundation side maybe your your potential sponsor corporate sponsor is listening to the podcast now. So if you could um what do you do if if funding was not an issue with NextGen Foundation. Let's say you you you have access to the funding that

33:07 you require at this time. What what emerges out of that?
So number one would be to just fix the livelihood of the kids to school. So I would set up a small learning center for the kids. So that they can be able to get the same level of education. Of course cuz I can't take them to our big schools. It's so expensive.
Mhm.
So be able to give them already have a structure in place where if I was be able to get them in front of a tutor and a computer give them the same level of education. Number one. Number two was was so basically sort out the schooling. And then uh number two would be to sort out their food issues. Cuz some of them I'm telling you they go even two or three days. They come their stomach is paining. You cannot feed them. So feed

33:51 them fully cuz right now I'm I can only feed them like once a day. So what happens to the other meals? Cuz at schools they don't have food. Some of the schools they they were going to they don't have food.
Yeah.
And then um get a facility that would be ideally our own schools. Majority of these places when they see my scholarship kids they feel a bit you know they they they they're
uncomfortable.
Yeah. So if we could have our own facility that would be fantastic so that we are fully supporting them. And then those would be the three pillars. So education, nutrition and food and uh health. Sorry. So a lot of them have many health issues. So even recently I was sorting out a medical bill for quite a number of them. Ringworms, fungal infections. Another one had even been cut jumping and I'm a bit he was going

34:40 to get us a serious infection, so we had to rush him to hospital. So, medical is another thing they're really struggling with. So, that support would be ideal and also coaching. So, again, you know, my coaches are volunteering their time cuz one of my coaches even goes into their houses in Kibera and finds out are these kids okay? So, being able to support my coaches would also be fantastic. So, that that that would be a great start.
Let's let's speak a bit about this facility, yeah? What does it look like in your head, you know, from a vision perspective? What size is it? What does it have? And and yeah. In order to achieve exactly what you've just told us, what does this facility look like?

35:21
So, the facility would need football field and a swimming pool. Eight lanes and a standard football field with a track. And it would require also a place where the kids could also learn and do some academics. And then of course have a gym plus a rehab facility. So, when when I did the model initially about a year or 2 years ago, it would be it would be sitting on about 4 acres. Getting 4 acres in Nairobi is hard, so you know, you'd have to go out of town. But I came across a very interesting business concept called an asset light model of business. And it's something that has just been stuck in my brain cuz in Kenya we have fantastic infrastructure, but the challenge is we are not leveraging it properly. Schools. Have you ever been to Lenana? Have you ever been to Saint Mary's? The fields.

36:09
Yes.
The facilities that these colonialists built.
Yes.
There's a school at What's this place near Makuyu called? A teacher college. I passed the other day and I saw they have maybe six or seven fields. I could not believe it.
Muranga Technical.
Yeah. With plush grass and I was just like, my goodness, what is all this? So, the asset-light model that I was looking at was possibly leveraging the current infrastructure
that exists
that exists and utilizing it fully. So, for the facilities, look for public facilities that just need to be slightly renovated. Schools, Kilimani Primary, for example. Facilities for classrooms, we have all these empty apartments, empty facilities that are not being utilized. Number three, um and then of course yes, so that's where where the classrooms can be boarding facilities, we can always get places. So, we can also if we don't have

37:04 if we don't have that 200 million we can even start right now with the current infrastructure we have. KCB Leadership Foundation, for example, is a perfect place to set up such uh such a place cuz they have the fields, they have the facilities, they have the rooms that you can use for classes. Those places exist. Absa Sports Club. There are quite a number of of places that exist. So, that's the asset-light model I talked about because it's something we can start right now
Mhm.
without waiting for the 400 or the 300 million to invest. And then usually you know when you invest a lot of money like 2-300 million, you need to make a return on investment for whichever whatever goes in the money, which becomes very hard. So, you're you most of the time you're working towards repaying that money while you should be working towards improving the program. So, that's why that asset-light model has really

37:53 resonated with me.
Yeah. Interesting. Let's come back now having covered the foundation and I understood your vision for it. Let's come back now to the to the academy, yeah? So, you you said you have not abandoned your multi-sports um model. Right now you're doing swimming and and football. Football. But same question, now not for the foundation but for the academy, what does it look like if capital is not a constraint for you?
Go back to the original plan of the multi-sport
And and still leverage your asset light thinking?
Yes, cuz the asset light model allows us to scale dramatically across counties with minimal capital.
Yes.
So yes, the asset light model is cuz sometimes I see I'll see someone set up this wonderful facility and before I used to be so jealous. I was like, "Oh my goodness. I wish I had that." But after being in business for long enough, I do understand a balance sheet.

38:52
Yes.
I do understand invest what investors are looking for. So sometimes when I see that, I cringe cuz I'm like, "I do not know how you're going to make money off of this program." So yeah, the asset light model can scale to a dollar as of today in Nanyuki.
Yes.
So all these facilities
Yeah.
Yeah, um it would work, but the problem the reason I would struggle to go back to the multi-sport model is because it has to be funded. So the question is how is it being funded? If it's grant funding, then it's easy. But if it's being funded by parents, it's hard cuz you'd need now a lot of numbers. I'll tell you another challenge we're having in sports from a financial perspective. In Kenya, we have not yet appreciated the value of sports.

39:29
Yes.
So what people are willing to pay for sports is not commensurate to the value of the program. Like right now, I have priced majority of my programs at about 60% of the value of the program because I cannot price higher than that because parents or people do not see the value in this product. So you'll end up having no one come to it. So sports hasn't reached a place where people are willing to pay top dollar to invest in. It's getting there. I can't lie to you. It's getting there slowly. So that's why I'm stuck having to push numbers. I would have wished for my academy to be smaller, but I have I need a minimum volume for me to make a return on investment cuz I need to build a business also.

40:09
Okay.
Yeah. So as as much as I'm a sports person, I have found nowadays I've become more of entrepreneur stroke finance stroke Look at the all all I do. I look at financial models all day. I look at business strategy all day. In fact, my sports involvement has become a lot less cuz this business side has to work.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yet, we have the sports fund as a nation. Yeah? And betting companies we know. I mean, sports fund is huge in our Kenyan context. And I think I find it a bit oxymoronic what we're discussing because we're talking on one hand about underutilized facilities in public institutions which need funds for innovation. We have a sports fund. Yet, we don't have an overarching strategy. What I'm itching to hear your thoughts on

40:59 that.
So, again, it goes back to the initial challenge I told you about how we are as a nation. So, if you look at majority of the funds that have come up over the past couple of years, I can list all of them. I don't list them cuz I I try to make this as least political I just want to make this as least political as possible. So, if you look at all the funds, they're always mismanaged. So, sports fund again is a symptom of a global problem we're having in the nation. But, if the sports fund was implemented to the letter, the impact would be massive. And utilization So, I I again, I don't get political, but we have this massive stadium we have built. And that money, I believe, would have been put somewhere else. I don't I don't want to seem like I'm going against maendeleo.

41:44
Yes.
But, there's so much infrastructure like the fields that lay idle. The swimming pools that lay idle in East Kenya like cuz you know, these public schools that were there before have fantastic swimming pools, fields. There's a lot of renovation that can happen in KU has fantastic facilities. I I Sorry, I didn't tell tell you this, but I'm a lecturer at KU. I think I I Yeah. At KU, we have fantastic fields. Museum Hill as you're going up, can you look at Nairobi UN? Are you seeing those facilities? We just need to renovate. And
and utilize whatever we we you know Go go In the Bible it normally says what who can be trusted with little can be trusted with much.
Mhm.
So now we haven't yet been trusted with the little we have and we're already going for these big

42:27
Mhm.
gigantic things and we need to first set up base for the things we have.
Yes.
So the sports fund would first increase or renovate these facilities that are already existing.
The sports fund needs to build trust with little.
Okay. You need to build trust.
You need to build trust with little before going to do great things.
Exactly. I love that.
I love that. I think I think you you've hit it spot on.
Yeah.
But um one of the things that we have established this podcast is that I think um you are the you are our 57th guest. And uh if there's one uniform trait with entrepreneurs it's dreaming.
Yeah.
And I can hear the dreams that you have. Yeah. And I think you're in a unique situation because you have been an elite athlete. You have been exposed to multiple jurisdictions. So you have the Kenyan experience. You have the South African experience. You have the the Hong Kong experience. Yeah. Um I wish we would see more. But I don't also want to negate what is happening and there is some good that is happening. Yeah. Um I've been

43:43 pleasantly surprised in the last 2 years to see the can I say it the reemergence of local football?
Yes.
In the sense that I'm now seeing a lot more teams. Um I grew up with two main teams.
You know the Leopards and Gor Mahia.
But now I'm seeing you know even some infrastructural plays being made. You know I was looking at Police Sacco.
Yeah. There's What is it? Is it Muranga United? You know, Muranga is doing well and they have infrastructure. But I'm also seeing individuals and corporate entities starting to take their their sports a bit more seriously even from an investment perspective, you know, we have to mention I think KCB who have quite a robust program. I think Tusker are still in the league. But it would be great to see a lot more of that. Let's speak a bit about the

44:39 business of sport, yeah, because Kenya, I don't think it's unrealistic to say is a bit of a Premier League mad nation, yeah. We we Who are you? You know, who who do you support? But that's the business of sport. It has been It has been intentionally branded like that, you know? And when you see Arsenal sending condolences on the demise of Raila, it's because they know they have a fan base, you know, here. So what do you see as the opportunity if we can speak to sports as a business, you know, and say Is there a business case in your opinion? And what is that business case?
There's a massive business opportunity in sports, but in Kenya we have invited we have we have mixed up the So we are looking for We are now trying to monetize the finished product when we have not focused on the foundation. So there's about five or six steps we have we have missed. So usually step number one is increasing sports participation. But I can't lie to you. Not I'm not a prophet of doom. It's fantastic. I've

45:50 seen Kenya Academy of Sports is trying something. Some schools are trying something. So there is hope in there. But number one, a lot of the money needs to be invested in increasing sports participation for the kids everywhere. Even adults, believe it, but just increasing base of sports participation. And then number two, we need to invest in talent identification, but not at the level we're doing it. We're identifying as a talent too early. A bit later, once once kids have explored and played as many sports, we we identify the right time. The next step is talent development. This is where we struggle. Taking this child who is showing potential and really making something out of them. That's step number three. And then the next step is where we love investing, which is competitions. I'm on group chats for sports, and everything that's being posted is tournaments this week.

46:39 Competition this week. That's fantastic, but that's not what builds talent. So, we have left out these first three steps. So, we're trying to monetize competitions, and we have forgotten these three steps. After competitions, we have high performance pathways where athletes can actually make a living off of this.
Yes.
And that's where we can really commercialize. That's where the real money is. Because we have broadcasting, we have media, we have something I'm against, but betting. We have all these things that can now expand the the business case for sports. But, you know, these first three steps have been negated. So, when you're trying to monetize sports competitions, and you're trying to monetize elite uh compete elite performance, we don't

47:24 have elite performances other than, of course, our very isolated cases. So, we will never be able to extract the true value of sports until we start with the foundation.
to come back to the base.
We need to come And you know the worst thing here is no It's not fun. Cuz here we're talking about coach education. We're talking about player empowerment and also player development. We're talking about policies and structures for talent development and talent identification. We're looking at increasing the the base of kids who are playing sports. These are things you cannot see. But in Kenya, we always like investing in things you can see. So, I don't know if we will move past it, but I'm happy. I can't like you we have moved There There's one of my friends, she works in events and she has hosted fantastic events in sports that have generated a lot of buzz for sports, which really helps us also cuz the more people know about sports, the better. But they will never be able to derive finances until they focus on these three steps.

48:20
So, it has to start with a base.
It has to start with the base, which is not doesn't sound interesting.
Schools? Schools?
Yeah?
Schools, kids, community.
Yeah.
Schools, kids, community. Start there and these kids will come and shock you later in life and we will fill stadiums beyond what you guys can even imagine.
Yeah.
We will have players being transferred to international clubs abroad. We will have a league in Kenya where someone is maybe the EPL is being viewed today and you're wondering, will I go to Talanta Stadium to watch my favorite team because the level of playing is almost at the same level.
Yes.
This player is earning a million per month, a million Kenya shillings per month. This So, even like me as an athlete, I might be offered like nowadays our athletes are being offered places in let's say Sweden for example to go play football. So, if our our athlete is being offered that, they look at it like, "Yeah, I'd rather play for KCB here where I'm being paid a million a month and I'm here with my family and I'm in

49:20 Kenya."
Yes.
Until we focus on the base, the rest is irrelevant at the top.
Do Do I hear you saying that we need to build our own?
We need to build our own.
Yeah.
And we need to retain our own, which is cuz we are exporting It's just like Africa, Congo for example, DRC. Look, all our minerals go and they make value out. Again here, our little talent we have goes and they it's extracted out there.
Yeah.
So, we need to create a league where even someone is thinking twice, I'm like, "Okay, should I stay in Kenya or should I go?" You know, when someone is making that decision, it means you've actually you've actually made it.
Yeah.
And then when I go watch a match, I'm like, "Okay."

49:58
Yeah.
I would rather watch I'll I'll I'll record EPL. I'll go watch highlights later.
Yes.
Let me go watch this this match of mine.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
The other day I went to visit my nephew in in in um Laiser Hill Academy. And I found them I found them in a game. They were playing a game. And just being there and watching the game school home game you know, it it elicits such nostalgia of school and cuz I'm like you were you're you're based at at Strathmore. I was in Nairobi school. And that was the same when I was there. The exposure to diverse sports, you know, there's rugby here, there's hockey here, there's football, there's swimming, there's basketball, there's tennis, there's cricket, there's a whole host of things. And you do get to immerse yourself in this space before you pick a line that you want to specialize in. But I love what you're saying about us being building for ourselves because it's the same. It's the same drive, it's the same excitement, it's the same push for that. So, I'm really excited to

51:05 to see what you're doing and your contribution. And and you have that at least I can hear that resilience in you.
That that You need the resilience.
That makes me say that, yeah, you're you're in this for the long haul. And I think it's brilliant. Dr. Boyd, this has been a fabulous conversation. I think I'd like to just give you a chance to to to to tell the audience, where can they find Next Gen um where can they find Next Gen Sports Academy uh and also maybe a pitch to the corporate players uh who uh the Next Gen Foundation needs their support. How can they support? Where can they find you? How can they get in touch with you?
Okay, so you can find us on all social media. So, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, just Next Gen Sports Academy. Type it out, you can get us on all socials. Mine personally, if you just type at Dr. Boit, you'll find me on Instagram. Uh on LinkedIn, it's Dr. Kiplagat Boit. And then for corporates, sports is one of the most scalable social investment or social tool available. Cuz one thing that the I have tried I know I'm skewed cuz I'm

52:17 in sports, but I've tried to think of other things that can actually impact children the way you know, nowadays life is a bit comfortable for kids. It's very comfortable for kids, very comfortable for people. Sports is able to build a specific resilience that I don't think there's anything else that can uh can build.
And discipline.
And discipline. Resilience, discipline, character. Both for the kids in the slums and the kids in uh affluent areas. And then the impact that sports has. So, even there's a study that was done where they were looking at uh kids who played sports did better in academics, number one. Kids who played sports in the slum stayed in school even more than the others cuz they had they they were given a purpose in their life. So, for the corporates, it's a

53:07 unique way and you can combine cuz I know corporates are used to paying school fees or to pay school fees to make it under the hospital. But, it can be combined. You can pay school fees for these kids while supporting them to play sports, which is what M-Pesa is doing.
Excellent.
Yeah.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was episode uh 57 of the African Do Podcast with Dr. Boit Kiplagat. What a fabulous story, what passion for sports, what passion for impacting the next generation. I'd invite any corporates who are able to support to reach out to him personally and find out how you can participate support his grand vision grand visions and he has the technical ability and education to back it up. And so he's able to execute to the level

53:51 that we'd like to see. He's passionate about the continent. He's passionate about the country and he'd like to see Kenya play in a different league both in sports, impact, character building and education of our youth. So ladies and gentlemen, episode 57. Thank you very much for joining us. And we look forward to having you in future episodes. Asante sana.