Emma Miloyo — transcript

Design Source

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:05 Greetings, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to episode 45 of the African Do podcast. Today, we're very privileged to have with us uh Emma Miloyo. Emma Miloyo wears many hats, multiple hats. She's an architect, she's an educator, and we'll delve into all those various things that she does and see how they they affect us all in an entrepreneurial context. Emma, welcome to the African. Thank you so much, Leonard, for having me. A pleasure.
So, Emma, we let's start with the architecture because it's the beginning and you told me earlier before we started recording the episode that Design [clears throat] Source
is celebrating 20 years.
Yes.
Um,
and Design Source is an architectural firm.

0:49
So, let's speak about your life post graduating from Jakinata University of Agriculture and Technology with your architecture degree.
Where do we go from there? Yeah. So, first of all, architecture and how I got into it. Um, sort of creative and, uh,
also speaks a little bit to the education conversation that we're going to have, how a teacher can, you know, speak to you and, you know, sort of shape your thinking. So, I got I'm a creative, got into architecture.
Uh, I will say this funny story of where I was
raised in very female environments. I went to you know convent school all girls high school was all girls taught for gap year in a all girls school as well and then I land in Jquat

1:32
uh where it's the total reverse
yes and uh had to sort of navigate my way around that very maledominated field having grown up in even my home environment was very very much a femaleled female uh space get to that uh the shock of jquat which is a good shock because prepares me for the world of architecture uh which 20 years ago was very different. I'm happy to see that right now it's it's it's very different even on a site but 20 years ago you'd walk into rooms, walk into a site and you're the only female. So that was very very interesting, very challenging, but also stretched me uh from a very shy sort of um soft uh uh girl.
Yeah. now getting into my 20s and uh being forced to be on this stage where as an architect you're a leader like it or not you're a creative but really you're a you're a coordinator you're a conductor you're conducting this symphony

2:29
and and so post that get into employment and and did a stunt I met you there a couple of years ago when we were looking at uh you know a restaurant that you were putting up and um uh we were looking at that then uh I had interested ly in my Jquat experience of course uh that's where I met my spouse from first year
and uh we decided to start design source together because we were both architects we were classmates okay
got into that it's a funny story uh how he used to take very very good notes
so in our class I I went to sit next to him because I couldn't hear the lecturer so I went to sit next to him because he took good notes I would copy from him yes and they say it was an architectural history class but they say the rest is history now.

3:18
Uh got together,
started this practice at his design source and really looking to
to sort of grow and create a space where
um you know we we're professional firm listening to our clients uh creating a space where others can also thrive and uh uh and and contributing to the architecture space. So that's where ended up and it's been 20 years of of the ride. Yeah.
Let me ask you this.
Yeah. because I I I I think about this a lot when when it's a service um industry like yours, you're providing an architectural service and I think about the the same about the law.
Mhm.
So, how do you when you're deciding to to start your own farm? How do you differentiate yourself? Because architecture is architecture, you know.

4:07
Yes.
The law is the law, you know, and you're all in a class, many of you graduating. Mhm.
You'll come out into a market that already has established architectural firms.
So, how do you then when you go out on your own, how do you differentiate and innovate around that or how did you do it at Design Source?
And it's very interesting that you're asking that because sometimes in the naivity of being in your 20s because we started it very very young almost immediately off university. You've not thought through a lot of that. You're just saying I want to define my path. I want to I want to be bold. I want to I want to be in a space where as a creative it's almost you know as a creative I want to be able to express myself uh 10 years later uh where we

4:51 we've now had to you know rethink and think through that a bit more scientifically the way you're putting it more intentionally as you also mature as a business person and start understanding it's not just about every cookie cutter practice what distinguishes you some of it you learned accidentally because in a sense you you're bold you
you may not uh in these service industries like law and architecture, you've not been built with the business acumen in school. You're not taught that. You're purely taught how to draw, how to design, how to run contracts and and supervise. You're not even taught how to supervise people. Then you learned in this space and uh you don't necessarily have the the business skill set. So, some of it was learned um on the job. Yeah. And then later becoming

5:34 and knowing, oh, we have something here. And a lot of it as in all things is about the relationships you have. How are you treating people
that distinguishes you? You could be the best designer and you know building the best building but
what what's how do you treat your clients and do they trust you? We what we realize in the service industry especially like law and less hospitality is you're in the business of selling trust.
Yes.
Do people trust you?
Yeah. do they know that you're not going to, you know, cut corners or do something with a contractor that then puts the client at a disadvantage. So more and more we started realizing that integrity and trust are so important and then how you treat people. So going back to the soft skills, you could have the technical skills, but

6:19
Ubuntu, are you a good person? Are you treating your clients well? Do they feel valued? Are you skipping your word? Are you saying you're going to do what you're going to do when you said you you'd do it? And are you communicating well? So it became very interesting later to realize
yeah what we had been taught in university uh was technical but out here it's really about the small the soft skills the EQ the relationships you have even to get a client is really about people like to work with people they like so you know are you a likable character people feel connected to you more your your profile might be great but you know are you a likable
you find that that paid off in your case

6:55
absolutely absolutely and and
through the years then even as I went into architecture the architectural association um where I got into that almost looking at the environment and we we've been in those spaces with you as well where we're like is this the Nairobi we want
am I going to sit back and complain or am I going to get into uh doing something about this and that's how I got into the AK thing I want to be part of change I want to see how I can influence the industry to be what I wanted to be it's It's it's almost utopian but that was the little thing and then there finding that as much as I was giving I was also learning a lot in terms of leadership soft skills influencing people and that pays back

7:41 into your practice in the sense of you're learning things. You're learning how organizations run. You're learning how people operate. It's almost a human science and that pays back
into the practice. Absolutely. By all uh by all means. Okay.
How you treat people is so important. It's it's what your your even in hospitality I guess how you treat people is everything. Yeah.
Agreed.
Yeah.
So what um
in the audience they might be a student of architecture now who harbors dreams of maybe setting up their own practice.
What is a couple of things that you wish you knew when you are starting your practice that you would say to them
to consider if they want to go down the route of working for themselves and setting up their own practice?

8:23
Yeah. I I think like I said the the business acumen um you're not really taught you know target audience customer segmentation understanding who are your customers that you're what's my USB my unique value proposition and what am I coming into so some of this was accidental then came to crystallize later but perhaps if we had known it from the word go we' have defined ourselves better and probably been maybe on a faster trajectory some things you have to learn but if you have the skill set from the word go that would really help so there's so much out there in terms of opportunities to learn about business uh you know in this age of the digital era a lot of um um uh whether it's courses and the like but just build building your business acumen which is a lot about soft skills also um beyond money beyond how are you investing in in even in other people in terms of passion and and

9:15 service to others and I find that if you detach yes we're in business but if you detach a little bit and um your your drive is not goal is financial.
Yes.
Somehow um financial together with passion together with being able to deliver people's dreams and deliver your service well if that's your drive the money comes
the business will do well but your driver must be thinking of the client first thinking beyond self whether it's even in service. So a tip, business acumen. Another thing, serve others. Find opportunities where you're serving others. Because in those opportunities, you're learning maybe not in a less stressful environment than a business. How people operate, what people want to hear, how people feel valued, how you

9:55 create environments where people feel valued. So that soft skills would be something else. So the business acumen and the soft skills would be certainly things that um I've seen out here. It's not so much how much of a great architect you are that you're drawing. That's that's important. But what's a differentiator is these other things. How are you setting up the business? Um what fundamentals are you putting in from day one? Yeah.
And then the people skills.
Okay.
You brought in the topic about serving others and you have heard quite a bit. Is it that you don't have enough to do or or what drives you to to because um I've um been with you or seen you serve I just found out today that you served as the chair of the architectural

10:38
architectural first first female president of the architectural association of Kenya.
Okay.
Yes.
And then you've also been very uh active in Kilimani project Foundation in various capacities. M
what is it that drives you to do that? Because this is um I have a friend who with a light touch says that managing professionals or or volunteer management of professionals is akin to having cats. [laughter]
True. because they are all very intelligent people in their own right and getting them to align into one course when everyone sees that they have the answer is is way more difficult
than than than many. So what drove you there or what is it that that makes you say okay I have this design source practice that I'm trying to build but I'll still give off my time to go to the architectural association of Kenya but also to go to my community in Kilimani and and try to do stuff there.

11:40
Yeah. And and I think Wangari Madai sort of put that analogy so well with the hummingbird
and seeing um what little can I do
to make you know this world a better place my community one building at a time one community at a time and I think that was a that's always a drive that
if I see something that's wrong what what's the tendency with Kenyans is you know uh to complain or to blame somebody but what can I who in one way or another that can contribute to this
uh making this better and and I found
that it is actually possible even one letter and it's not sometimes big gestures of
yes
going on Mandamano and streets we've we've done a couple of that as well yes
but sometimes just that a voice and a letter can make a difference I'll give an example once of um uh KICC um they decided to have an ad around uh KICC that for architects was you know it's KC is a bit sacred in that sense of an icon and they put an ad around the the shape of and changed the shape of um of KICC we said KC had MS because it was an ad that was around that and all it took was for I wrote we wrote a letter as as AK

12:59 to national museums because it is um protected building in that sense and to the KCC management and they were like oh my god we we didn't realize that this was an icon and we didn't realize by putting this had we had changed the silhouette of Nairobi. We're taking it down. We are in a contract with these people. Once it ends this ex date, we're going to pull it down. I didn't have to scream. I didn't have to whatever. It just took intention. So, I realized
very early on that all it took was intention sometimes and you can have a ripple effect.
So, I think you kind of get a almost addicted to that in the sense of I can I can be the change I want to see
and that
it doesn't hurt to try. Okay.

13:39
Yeah. Sometimes it looks like something so big, but one hummingbird, big fire,
one drop at a time, you never know. You never know what difference you can make. And when you actually do make that difference with one small step, you're like, "Oh my gosh,
all it took was a mindset shift for me."
And and and I think in service also, um,
I've I've I've learned a lot of I've horned my soft skills like you said, her being professionals. So you had to almost become an influencer rather than a director saying ABCD and then you find and building loyalty and you find that is even that soft power is so much more powerful than brawn in a sense that if people believe in your cause or believe in you

14:22
you can get them to to to come with you along wherever you're going. If
they believe that you're a good person, if they believe that you you're what you're you're invested
and that you're treating them well,
they will go the mile with you. They will be ready like, "Oh, what what do you say we do? We're going to do it." And I found that was very interesting because I was first female president. Therefore, there had been 50 years of male presidents. And I and I wondered the association is 90% ma male membership. Yes. And therefore I thought, oh, do I have to be that I I showed up as my authentic self. I did not try to imitate or be something that I wasn't. And I found actually it was a soft power is the most powerful kind of power. When you're quiet

15:07
but steady and people can believe in you and you build loyalty,
it it goes a long way. Okay.
Let's speak a bit about the the the craft of architecture and the technical side of it because like you say, it is a technical undertaking. Yeah. Um but we also operate in a market that has had its own challenges with maintaining standards. Yeah.
Um I would say there still remains a challenge designwise with authenticity and our Africanness in the sense that
a lot of um standards whether
are drawn from international markets and they kind of maybe pushed down our throats. Um, so how does you as [clears throat] a practicing uh architect in uh first emerging African metropolis
like Nairobi or Kenya is and many other urban centers in Kenya? How do you then grow, develop, stamp your identity, um, authority,

16:12
your Africanness, your Kenyaness
in your design, in your work, in the way your farm runs.
Yeah.
Um, and and it's interesting you bring that because maybe sometimes where I I I see differently. Yes. I can celebrate my Africanness, but what is Africanness now versus Africanness
20 years ago versus Africanness 100 years ago? I'm not going to design a heart
uh now.
So, yes, we're becoming very much a homogeneous society across the world.
Yes, there are trends that we're picking up on. Um, is there a place for authenticity and African? Yes. Yes. that African defined by now which may very much be different from what would be traditionally perceived as as African. So I I um what I perceive maybe as in our practice as because our big vision is to actually bring change in Africa in that sense of one building at a time

17:08
is not so much in the technical built uh form but what kind of impact is our building having on the environment. what I focusing a little bit on even on that environmental aspect that in a sense we have a whole green design movement uh but when we look at how we built it was very very very green so in in in some aspects not focusing too much on the aesthetic because that's a fashion you can't
it's also driven by the client sometimes so I can't come and give you something that I think is authentically African in the sense of this is what African aesthetic looks like and you're you're you're now you're a global citizen now. You're like, "No, I want to have a little bit of my New York feel or Dubai feel or Singapore feel

17:54
and I'm responding to you. I'm I'm a service to you. I'm not It's your project. It's your dream that I'm actualizing." But are there things in African architecture in the African thinking that are very important to bring? Absolutely. And a big one for us is around environment and green materials. And the whole trend internationally has come now to Kenya. But we've always built with natural lighting. We've always built with natural ventilation. We are lucky in Nairobi to have very good climate. We've always built with materials that are locally available. So how do we apply that in a modern context? And maybe that's been the inter interpretation where we we we try to focus on from that from that aspect of what are some good things that are not essentially aesthetic but good things of how Africans were building that we can still apply.

18:40
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. and on on you know pushing in terms of the community sense as well having seen what you know how how our city is looking like and that's been part of the drive of design source whether it's me whether it's uh my partner um saying we're going to be part of the change so we've been totally involved in community with we've been totally involved in the associations which is in a sense an African way of doing things like community must be involved yeah
okay
great now um that would be enough.
Uh one one farm, one architectural firm. But you then decide 12 years ago
that uh education is another path to pursue not abandoning the architecture but in addition to the architecture.

19:30
Yes.
So I guess now is the right time to introduce you as director at Kyota School.
Yes.
And let's talk about Kyota School. What is it? How does it come into this picture after um I would say this at that time if my math is right you must be about 8 years in to running your design source farm
and then you decide you want to start a school what informs it
how does it come about and what is it today
yeah and people always ask architect education which is very interesting um so funny enough some things are subconscious as well because I'm My mother was a teacher. I come from a very educationheavy uh family in a in a sense of people who are impacting young children.
So I always wonder whether at some level there was always something uh at a subconscious level operating but I've always loved children.

20:24
Um I taught in my gap year taught for two years. I was a swimming coach.
Okay. Okay. [laughter] Okay.
And uh then um and and and also taught in the classroom a little bit. And I've always loved children in terms of, you know, that canvas or that, you know, as Maria Montisori would say, a light, a spark that you're ready to, you know, ignite and and and set to the world.
Um, and at that point also, we were parents as well, and we were looking around like, okay, um, there were two sets of types of education. You either went to the pure international curriculum or a very pure local curriculum. And we were struggling with both. um ends of that spectrum in the sense of uh the local curriculum at that time 844 was very rot learning uh you know marks different not necessarily focusing on the whole child h and

21:18
the international curriculum we we felt at that point that has shifted a little bit but at that point a lot of them would remove a child from the context of their Kenyaness in a sense they'd be you know little international citizens running around but with a very different mindset and not speaking their local language kiswahili very disconnected and we're like we don't want our children to be disconnected from their local context and we don't feel that so we had an idea of the kind of school we wanted to put up but we were not seeing that
interestingly my study in architecture was around schools as well so
I studied you know uh it's called environmental design in a sense of how uh human behavior how it's impacted by your environment so I did school as my thesis.

22:05
How um spaces influence learning um and
uh my partner did prisons. So how prison architecture can I either harden a prison or a prisoner or or or how that can set up and help in reforming somebody in the space you're in, how your space impacts you. So we always joke and said, "Okay, we couldn't put up a prison." The next best thing, of course, uh was putting up uh being able to put up a school. So those two worlds came together in that sense of what we wanted to see the architecture that we had learned um and wanting to see a new way of thinking about local education delivery and we set up this school and uh focusing on the whole person learning the local curriculum thinking about the kind of child we wanted out of this and saying oh again hummingbird what if the adults already were done and dusted with them how do we change the mindset of children to be leaders and innovators. And now it's become very trendy but at that point it

23:08 was very different that you were either
you know children were being whatever to pass exams not to impact their environment and to be change agents. So how do we
you know light up the spark of change agents and people who want to make the world a better place from a very very young age. Okay. uh and that was like the drive like creating the next generation of leaders who who are completely invested in Kenya, completely invested in Africa uh and have the global mindset to be able to change. So we have a little joke in in Kyota of how 2050 that's our KPI the president of Kenya must come from from ecos. Yes, from our ecosystem. Excellent. a president who's empathetic, a president who will be able to you know really drive with uh you know the the people at heart. Yeah. So that's our

23:56
but starting a school is not yes I I get the inspiration I get the drive
but it it is quite an undertaking because if there's a similarity that schools
share with uh my world of hospitality is you first have to make the investment you know you cannot go and tell people a good story about what you would like to see in the society you have to find the space you have to build or
refit out the space to suit whatever needs. So, how was that journey for you in a Kyota context?
Yeah. So, it was almost an act of faith and looking through the 12 year journey. It's been a lot of bold moves sometimes uh without that you know like I said earlier without with a naivity
but almost you know say currency is faith that we we have this thought we have this um drive and at each point we have found partners uh from the onset we got a wonderful set of partners who was sold on the dream and invested in in in this in this dream and said let's go for it without too much of a hustle in that sense saying uh we believe in this dream let's go. So we've been also it's been an act of faith in every way along the

25:10 way it's it's a testament of that of uh and this is not every everyone's story but I think for us it's it's that that we're we're grateful for that because uh we've had partners who've been able to um share in the dream help in driving that and shareholders who help us to drive the dream. uh but it was almost from a point of not even understanding the pure like you had asked earlier with actually the pure complexity of uh of of what school enterprise would end up being perhaps I always say if maybe sometimes God doesn't show you the big vision he tells you just take this small act of faith
and you think ah just uh kindergarten yeah let's just start this kindergarten there's a space it was interesting because it was from the architecture world our client had wanted to refit or change or build apartments in a space that had been

26:01
a school and the school was leaving and we were like no there was something in our heart that said no no no we cannot put up we have enough apartments a school so we are she said okay you find me a client I'm I'm ready not to put up apartments but you find me somebody and we sat and said we've always had this dream of starting a school we're not ready now uh it had been something that we're saying 5 years 10 years but here has something that's been placed in us And that act of faith of saying we'll commit.
We're going to
we're going to do it. Partner partners come on board. We're able to do it to taking that first step.
But probably if you're shown the whole vision you wouldn't. So it was an act of faith a first step and slowly the scroll being unveiled and the path being taken and 12 years later you can look and say okay fantastic. But

26:47
h it was a one one step at a time venture. Yeah. Yeah. So you've mentioned that you have shareholders and um
one thing that's underestimated about having shareholders is you have to find people one who align with your vision
and two who are willing to dedicate their resources
to fulfilling your vision.
Yes.
How was that journey for you
in the setting up of the school?
And again I say that that's been sort of a providence in itself. uh and and interesting because you also always need a diversity. Sometimes if you were alone probably would have had more missteps but that broadening of diversity of views, diversity of um of visions as well in the sense of okay maybe let's shape it like this then comes to something that that that is probably more palatable than you running with one

27:40 way. So it's been very very good. It's been iron sharpening ion in that sense of why don't we try it this way? Why don't we move things through things like I think that's the time we really you know problem shared a problem haved so through seasons of difficulty that has been like really really powerful to be able to have a a board um that is able to you know whether the seasons with you rather than a one-man show or a two-man show where we're we're having to carry the whole load on our own.
Are your shareholders happy?
Yes, they are. I think the school is thriving. the brand is I get surprised even how the brand and the the name of the school um thanks to our parents uh the word is is out there thanks to things that little things that we do see uh that were part of the vision that that but have come to life 12 years later an environment where children are kind

28:34
that's not always given a workplace because I always say it starts with your teachers it starts with your are they happy to come an environment where people are happy to come a family that our value system, seeing it bubble to life, seeing people repeated that the the kids are kind, the kids are warm, finding it easy to settle in even when people are new and saying, "Oh, this is interesting." Um that people ask, "Oh, what school does this child go to?" Because they're confident,
they're able to express themselves. Uh has been a wonderful wonderful sort of journey to see almost the end product from something that was probably placed in us from the onset. Yeah. So let's speak a bit about support infrastructure and particularly infrastructure around extracurricular activities. Yeah.

29:20
Um so Kyota school um has I dare say one of the best if not one of the great designed um swimming pools which is a support facility. So maybe as an architect when when I um experienced that facility as a user
I was like okay this is an exception in that this facility has seems to have been thought through you know from a user experience perspective. So maybe speak to us a bit about your thinking about the design of that and what are the opportunities particularly around extracurricular activities, music, sports
um uh and the rest,
how do they fit in in a school context and what drove the investment in like for example using the swimming pool as an example.
Yeah. And and again we we find the how would I call it the connection and the jigsaw fitting in very well in terms of our architecture experience and how it has been able to lend itself to the educations you know even purely even from a point of where we're easily able to you know roll out infrastructure because it's almost seamless you're client and you're the architect so it becomes very easy and that's

30:40
like I told you we're a family business so uh my husband uh runs a lot with the with the architecture execution. So we say hardware, I deal a lot with the software. It's my passion. It's you know what are we doing? What's the curriculum like? So in terms of thought process that
already that was such a gift that we are the architects but we are also the users. people sometimes this actually our thoughts through thought process through this does have impact um and and the space for extracurricular so fundamental not only with cuz now we have two systems the Cambridge system and the CBE CBC
I think people have come to understand the value of you know growing the whole child beyond ond grades in this world of AI um it's experiential learning that is so important how do you get experiential learning it's through a lot of the sports programs is a lot through outside the classroom experiences I always say sports especially for children who maybe grow up in slightly more privileged environments um middle class uh

31:52 environment sports is a one place where they're learning hard hard lessons that I have to put in effort I have to work hard There is losing and there is winning because very much the millennial parent and the Gen X parent has
raised this Gen Z and Gen Alpha into an a world where they're very protected and uh and the like. So extracurricular is fantastic where they're learning some hard lessons that we learned in a very different way. Uh so I think in terms of growing that whole person, not only in terms of being able to do another sport or music or whatever, but really that um the soft skills I was talking about, they actually learned through sports, teamwork,
um winning, being a gracious winner, being a being a loser, but understanding I have another chance tomorrow. Those are life lessons that

32:44
can only be learned outside the the the the classroom. So I see extracurricular and sports as so fundamental to supporting the academic excellence of a school um and building this whole person. It's it's absolutely important even in terms of soft soft skills confidence um yeah more active it's it's proven the more active children are more confident
even when it comes to academic not to mention the whole physical importance in terms of brain function and everything and how that impacts uh learning in the classroom.
Okay. Yeah. Now from uh getting a kindergarten that was to be pulled down to build apartments and starting this dream of schools to now three campuses you know uh Kyota school Dennis Prit Ki school Kasuku and Kiyota school in Karin

33:37
um in 12 years. Yeah.
Um
some would argue that that's quite aggressive from a growth perspective. Yeah. um maybe speak to us a bit more about Kyota.
What's your total student um population? How are you finding it? M running multilocational institutions because those are three institutions in different places.
How has the journey been of scaling up from one small facility into multiple facility and where do you see it going into the future?
Yeah. And very very interesting in that sense and not only now the three locations because that would have been okay
two curriculums. So with another layer of
complexity
complexity and and
but what I found is the same thing that I go back to in terms of first of all the growth has been parentled that

34:35
I think the focus on on on on certain on a value system. Academics are great but fundamentally to us was a value system Christian ethos uh that creates an environment where children feel cherished and Kyota means nest. So where children feel cherish cherished where staff feel cherished. So back to the things that I said I learned whether it was in the architectural association whether it was in other spaces where I was volunteering and honing uh certain life lessons around culture and and then bringing that back. So so so lessons whether it was in design source that then I was we were already a little bit more sophisticated in our understanding of how businesses operate. Therefore uh also the growth and and being very clear. So lessons learned in different spaces coming and applying them in Kyota. A big one for me was around culture. A big one for me was around

35:30 creating spaces where staff feel valued and once you staff and teachers especially who pour out of themselves in a sense cuz uh teaching is almost like parenting and we all know parenting is not uh easy. So creating a space where people are very comfortable, where they're happy, where they can be themselves and show up as their authentic selves uh was so fundamental in terms of creating then a culture that can be replicated. It's not always easy. I found that that the the it's almost like the word culture comes from bacteria growing, you know. So you've got the the initial one which was kindergarten and now how that grows out into the others. And of course the more we grew the more whatever. Now you have to start becoming very intentional about the code of of that culture. Being intentional about uh mapping out and recording the things that you have learned and them becoming a coded way of

36:24 behaving not only with staff even with children cuz some of it was spontaneous that we we had this wonderful dream and because we were all close to the source of this it happened spontaneously but later now coming back and and I did a fantastic program last year the Stanford seed program that comes now to what are your processes how culture is behavior are you writing down what the expected behav behaviors are and coding them because then that becomes um the challenge now as we grow. So putting in systems uh from something that was probably organic but now has to be scientifically curated to ensure that whoever is coming into the ecosystem is maintaining that culture that uh that was there from the word go. It's not easy. Of course, multiple locations, but having a good team, hiring, right? I'm I'm not a trained educator. Maybe I understand

37:16 as a parent, I knew the product I needed, but the
the almost I think that's been part of the success story that I wasn't an educator actually.
So, I was not getting in the way necessarily of people. I knew I have I have a I have a mind in and a foot in the world in the marketplace. So I also understand the product that lack of a word product is is very harsh but what the world needs.
Yeah.
Both in the future of work both in terms of leadership what we're trying to to do then being able to speak that to to to a leadership team. So having a fantastic leadership team is very important. People who exude and understand the vision but have the technical skills. So it almost made me a different kind of leader because I couldn't you had to delegate from the word go which is now the ultimate you know in terms of

38:02 leadership coaching [snorts] asking people you're not the expert but saying
tell me more you know you're the expert how should we do this this is what we need so that was almost made it easy to scale cuz I was not educator and I understood sort of a cultural thing I knew I'm not the expert and then empowering the team down so being a vision bearer uh painting that picture for people but allowing other people ble to run with that has helped it in terms of scaling almost uh as a as as an accident in that sense. Yeah.
That I cannot be in every classroom. I cannot be everywhere.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. So I have to really ignite it in other people.
So now let's speak about these two organizations that you still are involved in um and and balance your time between the two. But let's speak a bit about them from the perspective of the future. Yeah. M

38:53
um there's a great buzz around Africa what's happening on the continent. Nairobi is at the forefront of this.
So where do you see these two organizations going um design source on the architectural front? Kyota school as a school and educator.
What does the future look like um for them?
Yeah.
Yeah. and and and I always like to think of the two worlds still very interesting in how they connect.
The architecture space is is creating the infrastructure the hardware of a city.
Yes. So we're building, we're you know we're influencing and partly why we are involved in communities about influencing the built environment which is the growth right now is it's almost we're busting at the seams as Nairobi in the sense of

39:42
uh are we planning enough the kind of um urbanization and the growth that you're saying you know Africa rising literally the buildings are rising and popping out of everywhere
that I say is the hardware Kyota is about the software the people in those buildings yeah what kind of people are we raising huh for the next for the future of of the country. So that's number one how I see that design source um being able to be very intentional even not just as a business but how we are giving back and helping to shape the bigger canvas. So not only like I've been in leadership but encouraging those leaders in our practice who are coming up to also uh buy into the same ethos of you're not in a cocoon on your own you're not in a silo we're operating in a space that we must influence so that Nairobi goes into the direction and the kind of city we want from an infrastructure perspective so I see design source 50 years from now beyond us beyond being a firm that is standing out in terms of professionalism but standing out also as beyond a business

40:48 um a practice that wants to impact um Nairobi for good uh beyond that. So that's the big vision.
Do you see design source executing outside of Kenya or outside in other African markets?
Absolutely. And we have done that. But the truth be told, you know, Kenya is a big market in a sense. As much as you touch here and there, Kenya is still
five times bigger than any I was shocked, you know, the statistics and we always saying, "Oh, look at Randa or look at Tanzania." And when you look at the GDP, you it's it's still
it's it's so funny. We're five times bigger than any other economy. So there is a lot of work already in in Kenya.
Have we executed outside? Yes. um in other spaces sometimes I think Ronda was a very big market but but

41:36
if you compare the size big in terms of everybody was trying to go there they were building but if you compare size of that market it's a it's a drop compared to what the potential is in in Kenya uh Tanzania has its own different challenges around you know allowing uh professionals to practice in there so that's also a very interesting uh conversation so absolutely looking to play outside what we do find really works for us is international national collaboration. Uh so we've had collaborations with Korean architects um architects out of South Africa, architects out of Australia that we find very very interesting whether it's in executing a project here or or executing a project in another African market. Okay. Yeah. So that's the school. Oh my god. the school in terms of that big that dream is big maybe bigger than us

42:26
but being and and just
being able to actualize what we want like to be a lighthouse not only for ourselves sometimes we we also want to influence the education space and we're happy to see that education is is shifting but being that lighthouse yeah that city that that that city on a hill that also impacts what and shapes what kind of direction education is going in especially even in the local context and seeing how how are we shifting and how we creating this global citizen who is very much passionate about the you know what Africa is going to hold. So not people who like come come and and impact your community, come and impact your country. Even if you do go out there and study, but people with a passion for making a difference in in Africa. That's what we are hoping to see. We're hoping to see the next Nobel laureate coming from Kyota, the next big

43:22
swimming Olympic swimming star coming from Kota, but one who stands out a little different in that then it's not about self, it's about what I can do for others. not asking what can I do what can others do for me but what can I do for my my country and impact my country for for for better
so in the short to medium term do we do can we anticipate the opening of more compass more compasses
yeah absolutely our dream is big our dream is African
okay
yeah so that's mid to longterm is something we'd love to do and uh take this Kyota gospel beyond
we have seen we have seen South African educational um institutions come set foot in Kenya even by acquisition you know they have entered the market uh

44:11
by uh advate I think they are enter the market by acquisition they bought McKini school and they recently bought um
Rees in in in and uh
and is that something that fits within your strategy? Is that something that you see yourselves doing?
Yeah. uh or or are you Kenya focused for the for the short term?
I think it's very interesting in terms of first of all to what you've raised about South African acquisition which has been pretty much for the most part successful. In fact, the irony is that uh we always see in Kenya it's not it's not my opinion. I think that sometimes it's South African brands struggle
whether it is in retail they've struggled in in the Kenyan space. So they'll come and one year later except for one or two shut down but in education it seems to there's something that has that is working

45:03
acquisition has helped but even the yeah a few others that they've set up from scratch so I think even the Kenyan mentality what we're talking about around certain aspects of of of
uh internationalness I would call it yeah has has worked for them in the education space so that's been an interesting experiment in a sense and absolutely our dream can can go outside um will go outside Kenya at least into East Africa is something that's mid to long term.
Yes.
Yeah.
Now let's speak about um something that uh will affect your um and how you are dealing with it because it it's going to affect both of the sectors that your your businesses are in and that's AI.
You know nowadays you're seeing all kinds of solutions. you know, take a photo of an entry room

45:53
and there's an architectural AI tool that can, you know, kick it out for you and so on.
Yeah. So, how is AI impacting your your design source business? And how do you see yourselves as architects working with AI? Because it seems to be here to stay
to
to actually um not only exist but thrive in this AI influenced environment that we are currently in.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I think somebody did a little history of technology and um and what it has done. Absolutely. A disruptor. I think someone did a whole journey and said even the first technology was Roman roads and how that changed how you know how Europe was to industrial revolution. So certainly there's going to be disruption. We're not we that's not in doubt.

46:47
H will we be out of a job as architects? I don't think so. Um back to what I said of what's unique value proposition what's a success human interaction AI will never replace that I mean I know it's trying but
value system uh in all this wonderful design and and the like of that AI is doing there still needs to be execution you know the the the actual execution of that which is a human factor uh and even drawing into the relationships that's that's never going to go away. In fact, right now more than ever, relationships are absolutely important and coming to you know
to that. So I think the place for the relationship might we become facilitators of something
but the human interaction absolutely important. So what kind of human are you are you trustworthy? Are you kind? Are you those will come your value system will come to the four even more because I can design is not the issue but I think there's still a long way to go. Everyone says it it's not that architects will be replaced but architects who don't use AI will be replaced.

47:54
Yeah. Fair enough.
Yeah. So using it as as something that we that helps us and so far it's been absolutely helpful in terms of execution.
Excellent.
Now um Emma first of all Yes.
but AI and education.
Yes.
Also very very very interesting. Yeah. [clears throat]
What are you seeing there?
Yeah. And also just seeing how it's already impacting children. uh you can't you can't keep it necessarily out of the classroom but you must train now train um and we're just generating our AI strategy and AI policy as a school
you can't not uh factor it in and say we're going to close you know like no AI and that's it the kids are using AI whether you like it or not to their assignments to tutor them to study I I see my kids using it in very very interesting way just yesterday my 9-year-old just on Gemini I said show me a Kenyan swimmer and then Gemini generated something and then she was just an analyzing the image and saying this is all wrong first of all the lane

48:55 ropes are all this way and then and so I thought oh that's what we should be teaching them also how to
understand AI as a tool and not the end yeah so teaching them how to use AI would be very very fundamental just how we did with technology so
uh maybe certain percentages how are they prompting better so that's a whole new world but to shut it out is not going to it's not going to serve us all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wow. Emma, an excellent conversation. I think I'll now give you a chance uh to speak about your two uh organizations uh to the audience and tell them Design Source, where can they find you,
where you find, what are your social media handles?
Yes.
And also uh parents or students out there who want to learn more about Kyota School, who you are,

49:40
where you can be found, how can they can reach out to you. I think I'll invite you to do that.
Thank you. And I can look at the camera for that. Thank you so much. So, I'm Emma Miloyo as we've been having a wonderful conversation with Leonard here and I'm an architect at Design Source celebrating our 20th year that started in October. We are a design firm that really uh operates out of um Kilimani in Highway Heights. We are a very very rich we have a very rich portfolio in interior design especially in hospitality and institutional design have done several schools institutions but at the core of what we do is understanding our clients helping clients to build their dreams. So please find us on social media uh on all all probably we're the only architectural firm in Kenya on Tik Tok as well but find us on all channels at build at design source K. Thank you so much.

50:41
And Kyota School,
Kyota School uh is a school that sees itself as a learning institution that is nurturing young minds to positively impact the world. Um starting with Kenya, Africa and the world as a as a whole. So impacting young minds so that they can impact the world for good and for God. We are located in three campuses in Kilimani. We are on Dennis Brit uh with our uh CBC kindergarten and Cambridge all the way till year 11. We're in Kasuku uh from grade 1 to grade 9 and we're in current both with our Cambridge and CBE uh curriculara um all the way till grade 9 and year 9. Uh at Kyota school we're really about creating a nest for children where they feel safe, where they feel supported and looking at what we call the Kyota child. a child who's a critical thinker, confident, god-fearing, empathetic, socially aware, and who is challenged to change the world.

51:44
Excellent. Excellent.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, was episode 45 of the African Do podcast where we feature uh excellent Africans executing excellently. And I think today we did live up to that, Monica, quite well. um multifaceted, multi-hearted MM lawyer, architecture and education all rolled into one and executing for a better Kenya and Africa. So ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for being with us and we look forward to having you in the next episode. Thank you very much.