Episode 35 — transcript

I Am Kenyan. But I Am African First. How Ian Kabiru Built Horizons Offices Across 3 Countries Ep 35

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:03 [Music] Uh, greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 35 of the African Do podcast. Today we are delving into the world of offices uh real estate with Ian Kabiru of Horizon Offices. Ian, welcome to the African Do podcast.
Thank you.
Yes. So yeah, in this market where we um it has been very traditional historically um I'm a landlord or I'm a tenant or or or I own you know and I live in my own place. you come up with a concept to rent out a office space, you know, on a need basis, you know, not on a monthly basis, but on a need basis, short-term, long-term, and you you've now been doing this for 17 years.
So, how one, how do you find yourself in this space? You know, how do you end up there? What's your background? And how do you eventually end up uh setting up Horizon offices?

1:08
I think the simple answer to that question is I was solving my own problem.
Okay.
Um so before I give you a little bit about my background,
I found myself um as a entrepreneur.
Yes.
I don't know whether it was by design or whether it's just the way the circumstance circumstances uh played out. And uh one of the biggest obstacles entrepreneurs have is um you know you have to have a place to operate for anybody to take you seriously.
So I had been uh through two failed businesses.
Yes.
Very painful. It's hard enough failing in business but then when the landlord comes and says uh can you come and remove these things? I want my space.
I want my space back. and you find yourself paying to remove them.

2:00
Yes.
Paying to dispose of them. I realized that, you know, that was that was a problem and it wasn't a problem unique to me. So, I solving my own problem.
So, if I can maybe just circle back. Um, so I started off in corporate.
Yes.
Uh, I worked for a multinational um was making some some of these uh popular household goods. I won't go too much into that.
Mhm. And um I don't I never really thought of myself as anything else that than you know sort of a good corporate guy. Yeah.
But then I think what happens as you go through the uh sort of the journey of um of working in a in a company uh the the I guess the routine was was was something I didn't I didn't quite enjoy. And actually I found that I was I was very very very separated from you know uh the business the real business so to speak.

2:59
So in our company for example we never really used to be told how much money
the company was making. We used to be measured by the the volume of goods that we were we were selling.
Mhm. So for me I felt that that was a bit a bit a bit disconnected and I I always had this um sort of yearning to maybe interact you know more on the on the front end you know where you are interacting with customers you're getting them to pay you're seeing where the money is going
but actually but actually I have to say the motivation for for for for leaving corporate and going into business uh to some extent was from my parents, my mother in particular to the self-employed.
Yes.
And um you know when the opportunity presented itself and you know they say so you either pushed or you pulled. Yes.

3:53
I think for me it was more of a pull.
Mhm.
And when the opportunity to to get into business uh came about um it wasn't with offices to begin with.
Yes.
I was uh I've done a few things. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Uh I I I had an opportunity to work with a group of uh friends and we set up a small telco.
Yes.
It's a company called Pop Wireless. Some of you may remember it.
Mhm.
You know, you you you in business you you you kind of have to be a little bit uh foolish sometimes. You have to be oblivious to the dangers ahead
what you're going to otherwise you might not go.
You would start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But I but we were young and we were very I guess I guess we were we had a lot of self-belief. Maybe that's what it was

4:48
in our abilities. So and then we were a group of us.
So you know the safety numbers. So we we forged we forged ahead.
Uh that business had um I think mixed fortunes. We we did very well but we also found ourselves as a small fish in a very big pond.
Yep.
You know competing with the likes of Safariccom
you know there are some businesses that are not for small people. So
yes and small capital
and small and small capital.
Yeah.
But that was a that was an important learning. Um and sort of by default from that cuz what we were doing is we were selling internet and I was responsible for running these business. uh centers through which we created what what we called experience an an internet experience.

5:38
Yes.
So it was sort of like a glorified cyber cafe if you think about it that way.
Mhm.
Um and we had a lot of we had a lot of guys coming in. In fact, there's one month I counted about 15,000 customers coming through.
Wow.
And I used to see the same faces and does these guys where's your office?
Yeah. and they said, "But this is our office." So I realized that there was a need.
Mhm.
But it wasn't uh profitable.
Yes.
So I knew, you know, there's different models to sell to serve the same need. So when I did my research, I realized that there was something called uh service office or they called it virtual offices in those days. And um I realized there was there was a gap in the market. I think uh the there were some global players in the market at that time in Kenya.

6:32
Okay.
But they were charging a premium.
Yes.
So I I said what about startups like me?
What are they doing?
And that's how we started.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's how we started.
And so where do you start?
Uh
having identified the need.
So having identified the need this this is entrepreneurship 101 now.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, one one lesson
I've learned.
Mhm.
It is more likely that you will succeed as an entrepreneur with no money
Mhm.
than if you're fully funded.
Yes.
Mhm.
Cuz I'd been in a fully funded startup. When you're fully funded, what do you do? You throw money at every problem.
Yes.
So, before you know it, you're you're burning through cash. M

7:28
right before your revenues uh come in.
Yes.
And it doesn't really give you a proper grounding if you know what I mean.
Um but I think with this situation where you know I was really bootstrapping it and every day it was a problem I had to figure out how do I solve this problem? I don't have money and a lot of it used really just came down to even things like networks. So for example, even before I started the business, I used to tell people, oh, you know, I'm going to be opening an office very soon and it's it will be a place where you can just walk in. It's plug and play.
You don't have to spend money on rent. You don't have to spend money, you know, you know, I was I was I was solving their problem.

8:12
Yes.
This is before the office was opened.
Mhm. Mhm.
And actually, that's where my first customers came from. M
it was people who has been speaking to. So the um you know the marketing so to speak was really me hitting the ground uh telling as many people as I could this this is
of your intent.
This is my intention although it made it sound as though it already existed.
Yes. Yes.
You know that guy who finds a problem here.
Yeah.
He doesn't have the solution and he runs to the other side of the road
and then you
then he makes those things combine. Yeah, exactly.
Yes.
So, in a sense, that's what I that's what I did. And it's funny cuz when we were just setting up the I remember I think we were laying the carpets.

8:58
Yeah.
And uh I was wondering, hey, no, this office is about to be ready. Where where am I going to get customers from?
The guy had spoken to 6 months before
and he just showed up. He just said, "Hey, I just got uh I got a deal for I think he had just won the um something to do with the census at the time."
Yes. Yes.
And he needed to set up a secretariat like the next week.
Okay.
And that was my first customer. He took up all my all my offices for 6 months.
Yeah. Do you think it's it's so interesting because I think one of the things that we don't curate and when I say we as Africans
I think we don't I think we pay an extraordinarily extraordinarily heavy price for failure

9:47
yet I think failure is a good thing
for for entrepreneurs I think it's important I think horizon now celebrating 17 years you know it was important for you to do poi wire and to burn your fingers and to fail, you know, and I think that do do you see value in your failures in charting what came next and how you were able to do it?
Oh, yeah. And I talk about it a lot. I mean, I'm talking about it now because uh and and I I just like to encourage people, anybody who's going through this journey, I'd like to encourage you. Do not be afraid to fail.
Yes.
In fact, what they say is with failure, you know where you went wrong.
Yes. what you need to do differently.
With success, sometimes you may not even be sure.

10:35
Yes. What led to
what exactly
makes this successful, but with failure you have more more certainty.
Mhm.
So failure is the best is the best lesson. I know at the time it doesn't feel good. M
um but it's it's it's uh it's so important to to keep going.
M
and uh you know I know there are many of us out there who have gone through and we were talking about one of our friends earlier.
Yes.
Who's been able to you know consistently pick himself up and move on.
Yes.
Um so 100%. Yeah. Failure failure is is not something to be embarrassed about nor to have shame about.
Yeah.
It's it's it's a it's how you re react to that failure that is important. I think that's that's the way I look at it.

11:26
True.
Yeah.
So so um let's go back to this first office.
Yeah.
Uh where is it? How big is it? And what does it have that people are now able to come and and how did you determine what it should have? you know what how many offices should there be a boardroom should there you know all the metrics that you've probably now mastered you know that time there was no template yeah or maybe there were the international players but how did you go about it such as to say I'm going to get this type of office and this is what I'm going to do and I'm going to design it like this and fit it out in this way
yeah sure
so there many there are many things that come into it so um so to answer your question we we we found Uh it was it it was a building that was under construction uh when I first saw it. Uh uh Luther Plaza.

12:18
Yes.
In the church compound.
Church, you know, they called it the Holy Triangle.
Yes.
Plenty of blessings. They're surrounded by churches.
Yes. Yes. St. Andrews on this side, St. Paul's and then Lutheran. Yeah.
Yeah. So you you start a business there. You should do well. There's a lot there are a lot of prayers around there. So that's where we started and um it is a good location. We thought you know proximity to CBD could walk
uh public transport but still on the edge of town a bit quiet.
So we thought it was a perfect uh location and and it was at least for the the the target that we were going for and we were looking for startups at that time
in terms of how we put it together. Yeah. So as I said I did a bit of research but remember I didn't have money. Yes.

13:09
So, it's one thing to have an idea, it's another it's another thing to be actually able to to put it together. Yeah.
And this is where network comes in.
So, again, sharing my challenge with a with a friend, he said, "Oh, you know, there's a there's a guy who I think you should meet.
He's a contractor. He's an interiors contractor. And he's a sort of person who you can give he can give you payment terms. He can give you time to pay.
Okay.
If if he's convinced in your idea
and there's some good people like that.
Yes. Yeah.
And I think what it was is that he had materials which was sitting somewhere.
Yeah.
It was better for him to use them.
So you know talked to this guy. He said okay this is what you can do. pay me this amount I guess to cover the labor and actually did a very good job for me. He put up my my first office

14:14
the one I told you about.
Yes. Yes.
So you see now because I was fortunate the prayers worked
and and I got the clients quickly.
Yes.
Uh now I now had now I had an income
and I started paying him off. Actually I paid him off faster than
than you he expected. he and you expected. Yeah.
So now the wing on the same floor that uh faced our office was available.
So I went by to the landlord. I said I need more space.
So the money I had been paid I used it for that. So we expanded into uh a secondary a secondary space
and that was that was actually a very important point because what happens with our business is so you also have to have a critical mass. Mhm.
There's a point at which you're not profitable

15:05
and you need to scale up to a certain level
to be profitable,
you know, cover your fixed costs and then now whatever you make after that, you know,
right? So,
so a lot of these factors were also playing uh playing into our hands. M I think the other thing which is worth I think important to mention is at that time uh you remember this was around the time the Kbaki government was was coming in and one of the things that happened is that the the banks
Mhm.
banks were lending.
Yes.
And and and they were lending to businesses that had no track record.
Yes.
So some banks that would listen to ideas.
True. True. So that was also I think for me uh you know good a good good timing perspective

15:56
from a timing perspective that the time we were starting the banks were listening.
The irony is uh 17 years later
they're not
with the track record that we have
with the fact that we have customers
unless I can give a title it
applaud somewhere
applaud somewhere
the banks are not going to lend me money. Wow.
That's that's that's how um difficult the environment has become.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah. And and and that's unfortunate. Actually, now that you mentioned that first office, I remember in my own entrepreneurial journey
uh coming to to to do a pitch in in in that aama of women who used to meet there I think on Saturdays or on a Thursday
and I was raising I was in one of my capital raising journeys for one of my restaurant concepts and I did do a pitch in that office you know I came to see the ladies there and they didn't give me money but it the as you mentioned the office. Yeah. Yeah. I was in that space. I worked in that space.

17:01
Yeah. But you you you've now grown, you know.
Yes. Um actually, you know, the the business the business had had good uh traction as far as customers were concerned. But remember we also were targeting a lot of startups.
Yes.
We were all in the struggle together.
So So you know I used to I used to have a lot of challenges collecting uh rent.
Yes. Yes.
Because you know sympathetic you know they say you know we haven't been paid or you know you know how it goes.
Yes.
And so it was it was it was difficult. It was difficult to um you know sort of translate what was what the books were showing.
Yeah.
To what was in the bank because you know we had so you know we had uh such a big dattors list. So

17:51
um started thinking about you know what what what does this mean and and and from a business perspective because we need to grow.
Yeah.
And uh you know I started uh maybe taking a step back and I think maybe that's where my corporate training
Yes. came in handy. So we started thinking bit a bit more strategically and started taking a broader view on you know the opportunity and you know where looking at the market and looking at the different segments of the market
where was the money.
Yeah.
And that's one thing um I always uh try to uh focus on when you're doing when you're doing business
you have to have a very very clear idea on where you can actually release value. True. So when uh we started realizing we've identified the need uh there's there's a there's a vibrant uh market segment here but it's not necessarily the the best one for us. Uh where is the money?

18:51
And we said the money has got to be within the corporate sector.
Yes.
Uh we have to now take on the big boys. We have to now start competing with some of the international players.
Yes. And so we got a bit uh you know um aggressive and we said you know let's let's let's up our game. Let's up our game.
Let's uh look for additional funding. Um at that time there was a bit of uh venture capital around.
Mhm.
Um actually they they looked for me. They came looking for me.
Wow. The the capital
the capital came looking for me.
Yeah. I wasn't keen on it, but then I realized, you know, if I'm really going to do this uh properly, then, you know, I I do need to stick my neck out a bit. So,

19:33
so we um we we went through a process and I have to say it was it was beneficial. It was painful, but beneficial at the same time.
Yes.
And uh what we what we then said was why don't we um look at a growth a growth strategy. And when we looked at the the different options that were there, there were two things that we did differently. One was we said let's as I said go for a more premium uh customer.
Mhm.
But also let's take um a panaffrican view.
Okay.
And my background had uh something to do with this because in my corporate life I had had an opportunity to work um across across Africa.
Yes.
I'd actually lived in Ghana.
Mhm.
Mhm. So when I was in Ghana, I also realized that Kenya in many ways is one or two steps ahead. The things that we are consuming uh or we consumed you know maybe 10 15 years ago is where the Ghanaians were at the time.

20:36
Yes. So we put together a plan and the plan said uh let's create commercial um hubs or let's identify commercial hubs where we can set up our offices
uh that will help connect uh African businessmen.
Yes.
Cuz one of the things I realize uh and I still believe it very strongly today is you know Africa is not doing enough business with itself.
Agreed.
And what is the problem? If I said to you, Leonard, uh, let's let's go and do business in Lagos. Now, what comes to your mind?
You know, you'll be a bit stuck.
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
First of all, you have to overcome your prejudices.
You've been told
thinking chaos.
Chaos and and it's, you know, it couldn't be anything further from the truth.

21:26
Yeah. M
so when I shifted my mindset away from thinking about things um at a certain level and I sort of started thinking bigger.
Yeah.
That's when things start happening.
So we we moved from uh Luther uh Plaza. We didn't close it immediately. We eventually closed it down but we scaled up from there
and there was a new development coming up uh 14 Riverside.
Yes. Yes. which was uh one of a kind, you know, multi- multi-use development, nice nice offices,
bit of retail and of course the the hotel
hotel. Yeah.
And it wasn't easy getting in there, but you know, we we were very determined.
Your way in. Yeah.
Yeah.
And we got in and then we started u competing and we got um our first corporate clients. Now, it's interesting because when you start thinking, okay, so this is where I want to go. Um, one of those corporate clients who we set up an office for in Nairobi. Uh, I remember the the guy who I dealt with is the global real estate guy said to me, um, we're having a we're having a problem in Lagos. Do you have a presence in Lagos? M

22:46
I said of course what what's your
I said what is what's what's your what's your itinerary can we when would you like to meet
and uh two weeks later we had a meeting in uh in Lagos
I had networks in Lagos
fortunately remember I told you I used to be
yes from your corporate life
so I was able to quickly you know figure out the lay of the land and We pulled it off and within 3 months we had an office running in Lagos for the client.
Mhm.
And that that that now meant we had now planted our flag in uh in Lagos.
Mhm.
And while I was in Lagos because I had uh lived I'd actually lived in Ara. I went uh on a factf finding mission and I identified oh there's actually an opportunity here and uh two years later we also opened in in Ara.

23:43
Nice. So now we were
three African countries
fulfilling our
continental ambition ambition. Exactly.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
So that's that's how it's uh that's how it it played out and um you know uh and you see what happens. This is why I find business so so fascinating is it's about the first step.
Once you've taken the first step,
you're in it.
You're in. And then you begin to see where the second and the third step has to go.
Yeah.
And as long as you um
I would say you are you you should not be reckless. True. But you should be courageous.
Agreed.
Right. And you should also be measured in what what you do.
Yeah.
And if you um have also built strong networks

24:34
and strong networks is you know
priceless is priceless. And and a network is, you know, you're going to have good and bad networks. You may be going uh
and along the way you are burning bridges. You are breaking promises. You're
uh you know lack of integrity. If if you uh build a network that is built on integrity,
that is your gold. That's that's where you get your gold. It's priceless.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So, you know what is interesting for me and and I like what you said about um I I I call it um calculating courage.
You know, you're not reckless, but you calculate
and you learn more by doing than by planning. Yes.
You know, I've had young people um in an entrepreneurial space who are like,

25:31
can you look at my business plan? And I have a look at it and I say listen
this is a plan and any plan can be made to read in whatever way you want it to read you know but the real lesson is going to become from the doing
100%.
So so plan yes calculate and make an informed decision. It doesn't have to be 100%. You know you can say 60 to 70% I can see where this is going. then go in with the acknowledgement that the lessons will come from the doing and open your mind to that
and I think there'd be a lot of value. We were talking earlier before the podcast about the doers, you know, the people who actually
put their feet in and jump in and they evolve
and that's business. So that f I share that fascination about business myself.

26:22
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So now you find yourself with um three locations in three countries. Um but are you in still in Lagos and in Ara?
We're not in Lagos but we we are in Ara. What happened was um uh you know our business uh has gone through three shocks. Let me put it that way.
Okay.
First shock was the double election
2017 2018.
Mhm.
A lot of people don't appreciate the impact that had on business.
Okay. You see what is happening in Africa is people business cycles go around political political cycles right
and particularly in our business which is dependent on sort of short-term uh tenencies where people a lot of whom are international businesses
are constantly in a state of you know uh review you know should they continue with their business should they

27:23
are they scaling up should they you know should they renew So businesses are always coming in and and and uh and going out.
Okay.
So in the case of 2017, a lot of businesses um cuz also remember in the lead in the run-up to an election, what happens is the people
scaled back and wait and see. Yeah. Yeah.
So people scale back.
So 6 months prior to the election, people have scaled back
in anticipation of you know electioning. election ending and then they they start again
come back. Yeah.
So that cycle was disrupted 6 months prior nothing election h it's not over. So people put their plans for the following year.
So for one year almost a year and a half nothing much was happening

28:16
right there was actually stagnation. So for businesses like ours it it affected us. Okay. Yeah.
So that was 2017 20 2018.
2019 I mentioned we had uh offices at 14.
Yeah.
Right. January the 15th
it happens. Yeah.
You remember what happened?
Who would have thought you would have a terrorist attack?
Yes.
Of that nature.
That is makes you as an office a target. M. Leonard, I could show you the bullet holes in our office.
Wow.
They shot out my cameras. I had clients hiding and uh it was crazy. And ducks where you know these ducks where they keep all the uh fire fighting equipment.
The the our neighbor downstairs unfortunately you know lost he lost one or two staff.

29:18
Yes. very very very very uh devastating. So that
Ken who was on this podcast they had their headquarters there and they paid a heavy price. Yeah. Yeah.
So we were deeply affected. Actually that was our biggest uh office facility.
Never recovered. It's closed.
Wow.
Yeah.
So that was a huge shock. So the so that was in 2019.
Yeah.
2020.
As if that's not enough in comes the pandemic.
The pandemic. Yeah.
So in a business what do you do? You have to at one point you have to consolidate. So we had to scale back. So what happened with uh in Nigeria
the clients all closed shop. Fortunately our lease was was coming to an end. So all we did is we just packed up our things. Actually we just packed up our things and we moved we moved our equipment to to to Ghana. Mhm.

30:15
And we said let's let's consolidate this in Ghana. right decision at the time. I intend on going back to Nigeria when when the time is right. We we we had a good run there. It's it's a it's a lovely place to do business.
Yes.
Some of some of my best networks I talked about networks
are there.
And um but in Ghana, you know, we we've continued and that and that has gone well. But also um Nairobi in the meantime has become very active.
Mhm. I think I think we we I I think this is probably the most outside South Africa. This is the most uh developed uh market for for real estate and and for
uh the sector that we're in the co-working uh service office sector.
Yes.
So right now those are the two hubs that that we're in but in Nairobi uh we're also doing a few a few interesting things which which

31:11
so four locations in Nairobi now and one in Ghana
and one in Ghana. Yeah. Okay. And of course from a space where you are you are the first local you know kind of the pioneering local to come into the space we now have a fair number of both local and international players that so it it has become quite a quite a vibrant landscape. I I draw a lot of parallels and similarities to my restaurant experience where we have watched the evolution of Kenya's or Nairobi's first and ultimately Kenya's um landscape. Yeah. And so it's it's yeah it's it's a good comparison and actually it's interesting because when you talk about um hospitality
m
there is there is actually um in a in a sense a convergence of uh these two sectors.

32:03
Yes.
You find you it is it is expected that a co-working space should also be able to provide you
yes I've seen those partnerships evolving. Yeah.
Yeah. But this whole thing of convergence and also when you talk about what what is what is coming in the future
uh what will the office of the future look like
um I tell you another interesting one you know the uh the other aspect of uh work life balance so that also introduces things like um in addition to hospitality you look at something like wellness
yes
so it's now expected that you should uh provide a space where people some wellness spaces within
wellness space whether It's a place to, you know, for yoga, for meditation.

32:50
Um, in fact, in our office in in Ghana, we we we we had somebody who's operating a spa.
Mhm.
Within the within the office environment. So, somewhere where you could go and get, you know, a quick fix,
you know, got a stiff neck.
Yeah. Head massages. Head
massage sort you out.
Um, or just a place to to have a nap. M
um the the gyms of for example um Virgin Active for example
Mhm.
is now offering meeting rooms and uh workspace within the gym.
Mhm. Mhm.
So you see it's all it's all coming together now. It's very interesting.
They become ecosystems as opposed to one
solitary thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. But here we are now. We're in the present. Um and um what actually like I mentioned earlier triggered me to invite you onto the podcast was a LinkedIn post that I saw you make.

33:51
Okay.
And you have ventured into the SCZ space
with the with with your offices. So tell us a bit more about that one
the thinking because I'm really enjoying your evolutions. You know how you're seeing what's happening in the market and reacting to it. So what did you see that took you into SZ and what exactly is it?
So you know it's we talked about strategy right and strategy is very important because you know you sort of have to set some some sort of parameters for you to um run and grow your business. Mhm.
So we we've always said we want to um enable trade on the on the continent.
Mhm.
And uh when we we understood that there was um an opportunity to be in what they refer to as a a special economic zone.

34:46
Mhm.
And all a special economic zone is you're familiar with EPZ?
Yes. Yes.
Right. It's uh it's an environment that provides um a whole raft of incentives
and makes it uh cost effective to for businesses to to to operate. In the case of EPZ, it's manufacturing.
Yes.
In the case of SEZ, it's serviceoriented.
Okay.
Mhm.
So services like you know Kenya is is is is very serviceoriented.
Yes. financial services, uh tech advisory, that that kind of thing.
And uh these these um these these these are entities that require our facilities. You know, they need they need a a work conducive uh uh space, but we take the hassle away from them having to set up
Mhm.
with you know, the usual licensing business and all that. Yeah. and the and and the capital investment for an office which which is which is expensive and all that. Now one of the requirements is in in the special economic zone

35:55
is you have to be doiciled there which means you have to rent out space. It shows that you are committed. You also have to be able to show uh an ability to to create jobs. M
so for example what's happening in the SZ that we are in uh the business process outsourcing industry is gravitating not just to Kenya
Yes.
but to the special economic zone.
Mhm.
I think it presents a really exciting opportunity for uh for this country.
Yes. Um I don't know whether you know Leonard but uh what's what what where where Kenya is uh potentially going to benefit the largest hubs for uh business process outsourcing yes are are actually out in the in the Philippines.
Yes.
Historically it's been India but Philippines of late has become quite a major

36:55
uh a major hub employing about 1.6 million people.
What?
Imagine that. Yes. So a lot of the companies that have been doiciled there are saying they need they need to they need they need a second hub. They need they need to diversify.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
Kenya takes so is taking so many boxes.
Yes.
If you can think about it that way.
What do those boxes look like?
Our our our people number one.
Yeah.
Yeah. Uh educated, hardworking,
um English speaking. English speaking
uh and and and and of course we we we're blessed with that resource as we all know in Kenya.
Okay.
And they're also performing.
Mhm.
Right. So you know the init the initial um experience with with some of these they're very happy with the results. Okay. So what do they what do what do they want to do? They want to they want to bring more and more people. And you know I think one of the good things that let's let's talk a few good things that happening in the country.

37:59
Yeah.
Is uh the environment the enabling environment has been created within these uh special uh economic zones
right and um you know we we we we are part of it uh and in our own way we're we're providing you know that that enabling environment.
Yeah. clients who for example want to get up and running tomorrow
uh it is possible.
Yes.
As long as they've complied with the with with the licensing requirements. Yes.
Okay.
But um it's not just you know giving people uh what do you call it um a job but it's also giving people careers.
Yes. So there's also an opportunity for guys to when you understand how this uh thing works.
Mhm.
There's a value chain.
So So there are also some pretty high value uh jobs. Yes.

38:59
That are being created within these uh uh zones.
Mhm.
For example, um you know things like uh you know uh developers of of apps. um
those those with with with the advent of artificial intelligence and so on and so forth it's going to be a huge huge huge huge
need for
and and and Kenya is well boys for that
there's a lot of knowledge transfer taking place
yeah so so it's quite it's quite interesting
so specifically you have spaces within the so we have we what we did is um under the um horizon's brand
Mhm. Mh.
We've uh created a subbrand called One Space.
On Space S.
Okay.
Which is uh registered
with with the authority.
Mhm.
And then we have a facility.

39:52
Mhm.
Um we basically
occupy uh uh some space and in that space
we've got access we we we've we've configured the space into like what we do
modular into different depending on what you want. you know, if it's you on your own, you can go in and have your office.
If you got a team of six,
or if you want to run um maybe a proof of concept for a BO, you can run it there.
Mhm.
And we can provide you with spaces for up to
100 agents.
Wow.
So that's that's the kind of scale we have.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That must be an interesting journey even from a learning perspective because that's now a totally new space that you're you're you're going through a journey of mastery of in order to provide these services for for the people who need them.

40:43
You know the interesting thing is the core product remains the same.
Yes.
And what I find fascinating about what you do is you're interacting with, you know, to your point with with all kinds of different industries.
Yes.
And to serve them well. Yes, you do need to uh
know what they're doing.
Know what they're doing. So, it's a constant learning experience as well.
Yeah.
Okay.
Which is great.
Okay.
Yeah.
Now, let's let's delve a bit into the future because we're talking about uh you're talking about this ecosystem. You know, in in 17 years ago when you're at Lutheran Plaza, I don't think yoga studios and gyms were anywhere in your mind space. But now they are things that you consider because of the evolution. So let's speak a bit about where do you see

41:30
um this segment uh heading into the future and where do we sit as a nation or as a country or as a continent even and where will we play in in that landscape. So there's a lot of conversations I've been having I mean um on different forums about what is the future of work because at the end of the day what what need do we serve right?
Yes. So you have to we sort of have to look at work
you know how is work going to look
uh
when we started our careers uh you know then it was you know I think motivated by the industrial
agreed
revolution where everybody had to you know it was all about factories. It was almost like
and you all show up at the same time and you all sit in a together and

42:24
department and do the same
same thing competition and you know
yeah suit and tie
suit and tie
and uh and not so many years later you can see um a lot of those norms uh have changed right and they say the change into the future is even going to be more dramatic. Yeah.
So I think one thing that was very disruptive which has sort of which gives us a hint to what lies in the future was was the pandemic.
Yes.
Cuz with the pandemic, you know, the whole thing around um what they call remote working, people working from home.
Mhm.
Can work from home. You're at your house, me, I'm at my house, but we're at the same company. The job has been done. using uh you know um video calls that that that kind of thing. So in a very short space of of time huge disruption and um you know the world will never be the same again. So what we're seeing today is this thing called hybrid working

43:31
where people said wait a minute um I was actually quite productive you know there's this tug pull and pull between the employee and the employee
so the employer wants his uh workers he wants his team
wants to see them
wants to see them
the guys are saying no especially you know when you're dealing with genz's we haven't even dealt with the alphas They're saying no no no we we we are able to work very efficiently wherever we are
and there has to be a there has been a middle ground which is called uh sort of a hybrid work work environment working arrangement
which is where you can have a principal uh works work space
but then you're still able to work uh for most of the um at different locations which has played into um co-working service offices that kind of thing.

44:34
But uh one thing that you know I I am very um engaged in at the moment is a is is a role of technology.
Yes.
What cuz tech tech has to come into it. Yeah. Tech tech is uh is part of us now. So what is the role of technology when it comes to um you know how we work? So uh you know there's a there's a platform for example uh that um there's a team I'm sort of involved in.
Yeah.
And uh it's basically giving you a tool where you can have access to flexible workspace off your phone.
Yes. You're sitting here, Leonard, and you say, "I want to work in Westlands this afternoon." And you should be able to go there, and it will identify an office that you can rent for this afternoon. You book it now,

45:28
pay with your Empessa
through the app.
Through the app, you show up
nice
and and off you go.
Very nice,
right?
Yeah.
Or a meeting room,
right?
Or a podcast studio or, you know, what whatever it is. So nothing nothing really revolutionary in the sense that you know that's already happening in other sectors like you know hospitality where you can go to Airbnb.
So you know workspace is also going to be arranged um and made conveniently accessible
through applications like that.
Nice.
Yeah.
Nice. Interesting because even here Sema Box who I have a relationship with because we have recorded our podcast here since its inception
is the same evolution you know and again driven by the pandemic because during the pandemic

46:17
is when podcasting particularly in Kenya but I also think globally podcasting then took off because we had all this time you know we were at home for a for a while six to seven months we were all at home all around the world and podcasting took off
and now you have this location that's a pay as you go podcasting studio you know you can go on to their website and say I'll come here for an hour
you know and I'll record my podcast they'll produce it for you and give it to you
so it's so interesting to see these interconnections we are experiencing it in hospitality
with the power of on two fronts with the power of the booking engines
uh for the hotel rooms but at the same time the delivery partners you know uh for the the delivery of food. And then there was a time two years ago there was chatter about oh is the traditional restaurant dead but then we we then started reconnecting with the social side of the restaurant and people are said no people want to sit somewhere nice and they still want. So even though delivery has become a thing there's also

47:24 acknowledgment that the socialization and you see the same in the offices
and you know people said okay you can work from home but then
it's lonely right and we're social
yes
and here we here we are talking and and and there's so much value in this conversation so I think you know if anything
much as maybe the the structure of the traditional office may be broken
I think it will be it will emerge as some it'll be reimagined as something else where
where the work is happening but people are also uh connecting I think connecting connection
is going to become an an increasingly important uh thing
uh then it's a question of how how do you be how do you connect but still be productive I think that's that's that's the middle ground that has to

48:14
and then a friend was giving an example of the value of peeping into the door of your colleague's office and say hey boss I had this idea and then there's value in that which doesn't really replicate virtually you know you can't quickly call the guy randomly and say book a zoom call hey I had this idea but in an office you can you know
or that social of our coffee you know hey let's grab a quick coffee you I walk you through and and so there's all that but it's really great to see and what I really like about what you're doing because um I've evolved into a big champion of local context next. Yeah. And I love stories of which you are one or or um your horizon is has evolved into one of taking international inspiration and building it with a very

49:04 strong local or continental uh context cuz I think that's where the magic will happen.
100%. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And and um I think it's unstoppable. I mean you can see what is what is happening um
on the continent.
Mhm.
I think it's it's it's wonderful how there's so much movement. Um
Yes.
And and and and the prejudices that were there before which which which which I guess
we were fed through the media that we were consuming then you know those are also been broken.
Yes. Um but yeah, the African story I think is is is a is is such an exciting one and and I think about the future.
Um you know, this is the place to be.
Agreed. And and and I feel a lot of the right questions have been asked. You know, I I follow quite a few of the young like YouTube or Facebook influencers and one of my favorites is Wmaya.

50:05
Yes.
From Ghana. I know. I met you personally. I've met him. I met him in Ghana.
Yes.
In fact, we we first met in I was introduced by a mutual friend meal.
Yes.
And then when he came to Kenya, he called me up.
Yes.
He did his what ama thing on me. So So actually he he came to the office and he told he told my story.
Excellent.
And we and we've stayed in touch.
So what I like about him and recently I think this year and from last year, he started asking what I consider to be the right questions. And the questions he's asking is why is it so hard to move between African countries? Why do we have this visa chaos? You know, I'm Kenyan and I want to go to Togo or he's Ghanaian and he's moving just to his neighboring country. But there's all this visa drama. Uh and I think when we start to

50:57 ask these questions, they will ultimately influence policy and change. Yeah. I I from a hospitality perspective, it was 2003 January I think when uh South Africa and Kenya mutually dropped their their visa uh restrictions. Yeah. For each other and if you're going to stay for 90 days or less to South Africa or to or South Africans coming to Kenya, you don't require a visa.
And
the data is phenomenal in terms of how the intercountry tourism has grown. South Africans choosing to holiday in Mombasa and in various parts of Nairobi or just coming for a weekend to enjoy night life, partying, clubbing and so on and Kenyans heading down to Cape Town, heading down to Juba to just
family getaways a week and and that is phenomenal and I think that is the potential. I couldn't agree with you more in my own my own experiences uh when you know the the visa restrictions uh were lifted um

52:03
you realize that actually if you uh plan and you uh travel to Jober and just Johannesburg
Mhm.
for a weekend.
Yes.
Uh it's actually cheaper than being in Nairobi.
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Uh-huh. Which is another story alto together.
Yes.
But but um the
the opening of doors I look at it that way. When the door is closed, you don't
you don't think should I should I should I go through that door? Chances are you would
you do something else. But there the door is open. It's welcoming.
Yeah.
We have to open our doors.
Yes. And uh this is in our interests.
Yes.
And as you say, we have to we have to start talking about this.
Yes. And and opening of doors, I think, is the is the precursor to opening up of minds.

53:06
Yes.
You know, because like you say, um I have not been fortunate enough to go to Lagos. I'd love to go, you know, but I know I must be carrying some subconscious biases
about Lagos that will be debunked once I go there.
Yes.
And Kenyans going to South Africa socially, you know, not for a work trip or with your family, then you start to open up and I'm sure in meeting some South Africans there, they do change some minds. So, it's a two-way street and then we start to explore all these options. So what I like about what you brought up is the unstoppable nature of it. I think it's a tsunami. I don't think you can put this horse back in the in the table. This one has bolted and it's out there and it will now evolve and continue to evolve.

53:56
You know, we're the same people at the end of the day. Um, you know, you go there, you you find um, you know, I found myself sitting down watching football. It's a pub somewhere and I I forget that I'm not in Nairobi.
Yeah.
At one point you forget.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
It's it's it's it's a it's a thing of beauty.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, Ian, you we've talked a lot and you've you've doubled in many things. So maybe as we we can now just uh talk a bit about um you have a wealth of hospitality of entrepreneurial African entrepreneurial experiences. So maybe we can spend the last few minutes that we have just talking about some of the other things that you're dabbling in whether related or unrelated to Horizon and where you see I think we we've established that we

54:54 share a mutual love and potential for this continent and what it can become
and we are contributing to it us taking our place our rightful place on the global stage. So maybe we can hear about a few of the things that you have in store for us into the future
or that I've done.
Oh yeah. That you have either done or are planning to do.
Look, I I I call myself a serial entrepreneur. Um in fact, I think one of the one of the disciplines is is to stay focused.
Yes.
If it was possible, I think I would I would do so many things. My So my background was in um marketing.
Yes.
Right. um brand brand management best career as far as at least for me
because what did it do? It it it taught me how to uh you know sort of get to the heart of the matter. You know what what drives everything

55:53
is a need or a problem that you're solving,
right?
And once you identify that half the job is done because it's now about figuring out, you know, how do how do I solve that profitably? And so that's I think with that sort of um awareness uh sort of drummed into my DNA, I see opportunities everywhere, right?
Yeah.
Um so for example uh during the pandemic and this will this might amuse you.
Yeah.
Uh I set up a dark kitchen.
Okay. you know, of course. Yes. Yes. That's my space. Yeah. That's my world.
I knew that would get your attention.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And and that was just an opportunity.
Mhm.
Um so somebody said somebody somewhere said, "Come and see this uh setup. There's a guy who has uh some kitchen equipment and he's not able to sustain the rent.

57:03
Are you interested? I said, I never say no to an opportunity. Let me come and have a look.
So, when we looked at it, we said, "Oh, wait a minute.
Um, this this this works very well for guys who are cuz with with the pandemic, what were we doing? We were doing deliveries, right?"
Yes. Yes. Yes.
So people could not go to a restaurant.
So all you needed to do was to have a place where you could uh prepare
uh the meal
and then dispatch it.
Mhm.
So I didn't go into cooking cuz I know my business is not cooking.
But I saw it as an extension to what I do as a service office provider.
Yes. Yes. So what I did is I partitioned it into about three four units and I identified fast food chains that wanted to cut their cost during uh the pandemic and uh and I rented it out to them.

57:55
Interesting. Interesting.
Yeah. And that was a project that we put together in about uh 3 4 months.
Yes.
I walked away from it.
Yes.
Yeah. Because at the end of the day I realized no let me just go back and focus on Yeah. So look, I I and I know why you're asking me this. I think I think we just want as we're sharing as we're talking is just to share stories about how important it is just to do.
Yes.
Just do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. Yeah.
You can you can you can move on to the to the next thing. Something uh will eventually uh work.
Yeah.
Um I've done a bit of consulting work. Mhm.
One of the things I was cons I was conscious of I've been conscious of is that I never really got to practice what I studied.

58:48
Okay.
So I I I have a degree in uh agricultural and food marketing. It's basically a a marketing for foods at every level.
Okay.
At at micro level and at a macro level.
Nice. And there was a project I was brought on board as a as a consultant where we were working with the tertiary uh institutions in in Ghana
with the faculties of of agriculture when we were helping them to figure out how to how how to enrich their the curriculum for um for agri business.
Okay. So it's just helping them to to to make a connection between what they were learning and um and the real world.
Excellent.
Yes.
So
so I can go on and on.
Yeah. No. Yeah. First of all, allow me to celebrate you. Allow me to celebrate this lifetime of doing because you you you're still doing, you know, and and you're doing you're doing very interesting things.

59:53
And I think that's what we're about on this podcast. So allow me to give you flowers in your presence and say I think
keep keep on keep on doing
but I I think I'll now give you a chance to just tell the the audience about Horizon and uh where they can find you one space um as we wrap up this episode. Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank thank you L. Um
so yeah so we're celebrating 17 years um in in Kenya much as we are Panaffrican. I think our our roots we we were deeply rooted in um in Kenya. Now what what we um have done is focused on the in the Westlands area and and it's simple you know we have a target market. We can't cater for for for everybody but what we are finding is that uh you know Westlands is um is sort of it's a very vibrant um area convenient to get to.

1:00:49 We've got uh as I mentioned the four locations Uh we're at Riverside Park. Um Riverside Park is ICA where ICA have uh their offices. Some two beautiful buildings. You can't miss them.
Um and in those offices, we've got a combination of uh uh service offices. So if you want a private office for yourself or if you want a a flexible space where you can come in and work you know on an hourly basis, a daily basis, a monthly basis, um we've really really really put a lot of um sort of love and energy into creating a homely environment. We refer to ourselves as a home to Africa's business.
Okay. So you'll come in there, the first thing that you'll find is that you'll be, you know, be welcomed with a aroma of of coffee.

1:01:44
Nice.
And we source coffee from um a selection of farms. We work with a partner who uh features different uh coffees from different farms every quarter.
Nice.
Uh freshly roasted and ground and um and and I think it's it's it's worth even just coming to say hi. I'll I'll offer you a cup of coffee and see what see what we have we have to offer there.
Um we're also at the at the Western Towers.
Um and there you know as I said we we are catering for some of the business process outsourcing people.
Yep.
So we've got a pretty big operation there.
And then in um uh the address the address is just as you approach uh ABC.
Mhm. Mhm. Uh in fact at the address we'll soon be opening uh a really interesting um it's almost like an outdoor indoor space for um for co-working.

1:02:42
Nice.
It's um it's a huge ver um encased in in glass so natural light and plants and there's a there's a nice sort of coffee vibe going on there.
Nice.
So it's also an event space and we'll be advertising more about that. Um and then the the special economic zone and and and don't be um discouraged. It's not something uh that should keep people away. It's open for business. So if you want to come and have a have a look and the special economic zone I think is something Kenyans need to be sort of um encouraged to engage with. Yeah. Because what it does it also gives gives you a very low cost base
to participate in the export market.
Excellent.
Yeah. Even this BO thing that we're talking about, it doesn't stop Kenyans from setting up BPOS's here.

1:03:30
Cuz what's happening
is the Americans, the Indians, the the the the people from out there
Yes.
are the ones coming to set up in Kenya.
Employing Kenyans.
Yes.
Why don't we do it ourselves?
Yes.
Yeah.
We can take a seat at that table.
We can take a seat at that table. So, so please please please do reach out. Um I'm I'm available. We're we're we're where uh um horizons offices.com. Um please reach out to us. Please uh engage with me and um yeah, come come with us and let's just do
Excellent. Excellent. Ian, thank you very much for a fascinating conversation on your business exploits and we wish you and Horizon offices all the very best into the future.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, that was episode 35 of the African Do podcast where we tell stories of excellent Africans executing excellently. So, thank you very much and see you in the next episode. [Music]