Episode 41 — transcript

The Band Behind Jambo Bwana: How Them Mushrooms Took Kenya's Sound to the World John Katana Harrison

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:05 Greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 41 uh of the African Do podcast. Today we are very very privileged to be in history actually we're going to have a large conversation about music history the business of music in Kenya and we're extremely privileged to have with us John Katana Harrison one of the founders I would say co-founder of them mushrooms them mushrooms in a Kenyan context does not need any introduction they have been I guess the playlist of our lives uh for the last 50 years 2022 I think they celebrated their 50 year anniversary as a band continuously play playing and living in the music industry in Kenya. So we're going to have a conversation which as I start I think 1 hour is not enough but we'll make the best of it. Um and John welcome to the African do podcast and Leonard thank you so much I've been following this podcast and happy to be here. Thanks for the

1:06 invitation.
Looking forward to a great one now.
Excellent.
Yeah. So let me confess first and say that I have a very big soft spot for John and the mushrooms because they are my neighbors or they are our neighbors. They come from Koleni and my maternal uh home or where my mother was born is just a few kilometer a kilometer or two from Kolini town and so they are legends in that area and so I've been a great admirer most of my life. So John, I think it's fair to say that um the mushrooms has curated um not not necessarily intentionally but purely from the perspective of how long you have been in the market. you've created um Kenyan music history, but you are starting this or this was starting at a time when unlike today um families weren't very welcoming to music as a career or as a business. Yeah. So maybe you can take us back into time and tell us the early days of the mushrooms. How was it? How do you find yourselves in in

2:17 in in um music and how did you end up dedicating your life literally your entire life to music? You eat, live, and breathe music.
Yeah. Thank you. You're taking it back a long long time.
Yes.
But here we go.
Well, um we started indulging in music or my elder siblings started indulging in music
at around 1969.
Yes.
I was Mtoan.
Mhm.
So, back then, like we've been talking about it, Teddy, the eldest.
Yes.
Started uh indulging in music when he was in school.
Mhm.
In secondary school,
he learned how to play the guitar.
Mhm.
And then along the way, he got into, you know, groups and groups with with during school holidays. So later on in the 70s, I'm just being you know here

3:16
in the 70s we came along now
and started following him wherever he was doing his stuff during the school holidays although we were not give being given permission for that like I was very young.
Yes.
Uh George whom I follow
equally.
So Teddy and our sister secondb born sister was the basist back then.
Yes.
Yeah. and Billy.
Yes.
He was just like an errands boy for the for the two of them.
Yes.
Um it was up to 1972
that them mushrooms, you know, the Aanita success transitioned to them mushrooms.
Okay.
That's when now the rest of us were in the band
very young. I think I was what 13 or 14 there about.
Yes.
And we took it up from there. But with very little support from our father.

4:13
Uhhuh.
But 130% support from our mother.
Wow. Okay.
Yeah. And every time she would tell our father just let them be. You never know if God has given them the music talent that will be what they will do in future.
So she stood solidly behind our talent. And that time it was taboo for
kids our age, our peers to even even just to go out to a disco. So we were out there having [clears throat] fun wherever there's music.
We just sneak in.
It wasn't easy
within the community. It wasn't easy because it was taboo. It was not a norm.
Yes.
But our mother was behind us all the way.
Yes. even getting you know advice from un unsolicited advice from neighbors or from the community but said leave them alone some said he said

5:20
that's the kind of support so like you say it was like an out ofthe- blue kind of thing
when we started Yes,
but because of our support and much much later, two or three decades later is when now people started warming up to young musicians, but selectively.
Yes.
So, we've gone through that.
Yeah.
And like you say, by God's grace, we're still here now. What 52 years on?
Yes.
And we thank the Lord.
Excellent.
Yeah. So you have seen um because of when you started you have seen the decades of Kenyan music. So maybe we can touch on that a bit. The 70s Yeah. the 80s, the '9s. Yeah. Uh 2000 and now we're in the 2020s and you're still here.
So what what can what would you say has been the evolution? Um I know from I was too young to experience but I know from reading that the ' 70s the music scene was quite vibrant or the live music scene. So maybe you can take us uh through that time as you are starting out as a band. How was it like where did you get gigs? Where did work come from? How was the recording environment? the creative space. Now we talk about the

6:50 creative economy but then that was now the early stage creative economy. Yeah.
Well uh the 70s like you say things were bubbling one thing because there was not so much distraction if I if I can call it
you know and the the the number one thing that happened was that there was only one broadcasting station national broadcasting station. So any music being played on the national broadcasting station
was heard across the country
Mhm.
and probably beyond Kenya's borders. Yes. Number one.
Number two, the economy was very strong.
Back then one $1, 18 or 20 Kenya shillings.
You see? So the economy of strong I remember when we started out we were being paid what about 80 shillings

7:47
per performance.
Per performance.
Yes.
And it was a lot.
You could save you could give mama some two shillings from boa and still go and have fun.
Yes.
Another factor. That's another factor. And then the the other thing was that um we we we were so much influenced by foreign music because the national broadcaster was
airing a lot of foreign music almost you could say 95% was foreign music
on the Swi service was congalles and Tanzanian
on the English service was western stuff mostly American and and English. Yes.
Or British for that matter.
Yes.
So that is what shaped depending on which uh service of the national broadcaster you were listening to either the English service or the Israeli service that would what would shape musicians

8:47
kind of uh musical taste.
Yes.
Yeah. And it went on and on until the advent of uh the FM stations. Yes.
So through the 70s. Yes. It was one broadcaster,
two formats of, if I may say, formats or genres of styles of music, English and
and we grew into that.
When we started off, we were just playing
covers of Tanzanian and Congalles music.
And along the way, we saw that the bands that are performing in the beach hotels were earning more for less uh duration of shows. Yes. You know, like performances.
Yes. Yes. So we transitioned to that so that we could earn more and play lesser hours.
Yes.
And that opened up you know the way for the band.
Yes.
Now to start investing in kiddogo better equipment.

9:44
Yes.
A bit of some studio equipment.
A van here. A van there
and other things.
Mhm.
And that was like the trend in Mombasa. I'm talking specifically about Mombasa because we we moved we uh camp or base
we relocated to Nairobi in what 1987.
Okay.
So prior to that we were based band
and that time you would see most of our peer bands
either they have cars, they have
houses, some not all but many
because the economy was strong, the pay was good. M
then comes the 80s and upwards then
there was a flood of everything.
This kind of watered down especially the economy when we started having one $1 to85 shillings.
Yes.
Everything started taking you know

10:43
a dip.
Yes.
But then again at the advent of the internet
Yeah. Everything is looking up for the creative space in general and music because now you can self your music
now you can you can do almost all sorts of things within the music business
online.
Okay.
Yeah. So let as we transition into from the 70s into the 80s, you are also quite is is the right word um innovative or brave as a band for your time because I've been following your Facebook posts and you've been doing uh some throwback series. And through that throwback series, I I I recognize that you did as a band take some stints out of the country. uh you would go and be resident bands in in Ali Dubai you know before

11:38 all the sky skyscrapers came up and all that uh but tell us about this a bit about that venturing out first how are you found such that you are taken or you're called or you get gigs outside your Kenyan beast you know uh information is not flowing as fast you know we don't have the internet you're not easily sharing music files on on on email and saying listen to this if you're called to Dubai or if you're invited to perform there, someone has to find you, hear you, maybe you can tell us a bit about that side of your music life and how it was to relocate and uh for performances in in those markets.
Yeah. Um actually it's some networking of some sort. I wouldn't now talk about networking marketing and it didn't exist back then in those uh

12:31
you know words
but one thing we had learned is to accommodate other musicians within what we were doing
and like in Mombasa literally many guys would come from Nairobi looking for greener pastures in Mombasa
and [clears throat] they would be told just drop off a tuda at the mushrooms you'll be welcomed Okay.
So many would come
and we would welcome them. We had two houses there.
All all of us were single.
Mhm.
So anybody would come say look I'm a musician of Karibu.
Karibu.
So how we started traveling out the out of the country there's a guy now he's late Muhammad Mundo.
Yes.
He came to Mombasa. He used to play with Sim Ali in Nairobi. Mhm.
Then he he said I want I think Mombasa is better for me. Greener pastures. He came dropped off at our doorstep in TUDA

13:28
and he introduced himself said I'm a drummer from Nairobi. I've just come I need at least two weeks with you guys so that I look for work.
By sheer coincidence um our drummer had left the band that time.
Yes.
And we told him this is perfect timing. So he join us. He joins us. Long story short, after 2 years he said, um, I have to go back to Tanzania. I was Tanzanian.
And he left and went to the UAE.
Yes.
He lied to us that he was going to
Tanzania. Yeah.
So after one year, he comes back. He said, "Guys, look, you guys welcome me so much. I felt like family. I have a deal in the UAE." And I said, I told my manager, I have to come and get you guys. That's that was our first trip to the UAE.

14:15
Okay. And how long was that?
It was for It was for 3 months.
We proved to be good. Yes.
They extended it to 3 months and then another 3 months
and then by then we hadworked. So when we came back
boom
we started you know from that time up to
way into 2005 we were on and off. Okay.
And so what what are the type of gigs? Are you resident bands in a hotel or what were you playing? Are you then do you combine that with private gigs in people's homes or how how exactly is the environment? Just to give the viewers context,
in Dubai we were a resident band.
Okay.
Doing six nights. Initially it was seven nights a week.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
But we said we will do it because we just need to get that break.

15:03
Yes. After that when the 3 months came now we were doing six nights and then we used to now with the corporates coming to to our shows
you know people from the corporates are in Dubai Sha Abu Dhabi we started getting
corporate gigs
corporate gigs every time we were off.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah. Okay. Okay.
And it expanded. So after that we were we came back but somebody from uh Abu Dhabi had seen us a manager they called us we went to Bahrain we went to you know all over the UAE almost. Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Now let's we we cannot have this podcast and you on this podcast without talking about what I call because as a hospitality professional I call Kenya's tourism anthem you know. Um and and that's Jambo Buana. Yeah. So um everyone knows that song, you know, and um I don't think the younger generation know it as your song. That singer songwriter is is is the mushrooms as it's a mushrooms number. So let's speak a bit about Jambubana. Where does it come

16:16 from? Where how was it written? And then maybe as your insights as as the as the band that put out the tune, what do you think gave it such longevity and made it explode uh in terms of uh listenership of that specific song?
Okay. First and foremost, I say this song, we refer to it as our passport to the world. Our band's passport to the world.
Mhm.
The song was uh we recorded the song in 1980.
Okay.
Yeah. and my late brother, the founder of the band, Teddy,
is the one who composed it.
Okay.
We were resident band at the Sea Lodge. And just one day after the show, we were having some drinks at the bar.
And you know, normally you hear people talking and new new uh batch of tourists being brought in. Yes.

17:11
And the staff would go jumbo jambo jumbo.
And then
when we were leaving, we got to our van. And Teddy says, "You know, I got an idea while at the bar.
Tomorrow at the rehearsals, I'm going to sing a tune
that I want us to try out."
Yes.
Come tomorrow, he sang the song Jambo. He said, "Yeah." Within within an hour,
we had rehearsed the song,
arranged, rehearsed, and we could play it.
Yes.
Within an hour. It's a very simple song.
Yes. So the next day we were performing at the Shelly Beach Hotel
because your resident at Seo and Shelly Beach Hotel across the Loni channel.
Yes,
we played there. The first time we played it the floor just everybody Yeah.

18:06
Yeah. Everybody came onto the dance floor and then they requested it for it about two or three four five times
in the same night.
Yeah. The same night. We were we were surprised.
Yes.
We didn't expect that.
Okay.
Then we started playing it all over. Yes.
And uh
the same hotel about a month or two months down the line,
someone from Polygram Records in Nairobi was on holiday.
Yes.
At the Shelly Beach.
Yes. and he had us play this song and at the break during the break he came to us and said look
here's my card I'm from Polygram I like that song I want you to play it again come talk to us in Nairobi
Mhm. That's how everything happened. We followed up. Teddy followed up. Eventually, we came and recorded the song.

18:56
Yeah.
In 1980 towards the end. That song just exploded.
Yeah.
It exploded. I mean, there's so many versions of that song in the world today.
Yes.
And it's been sung almost everywhere. There's a tourist fair
organized by Ken by Kenyans.
Yes. Yes. And it's it's become an evergreen for the band.
Yeah. Excellent.
It doesn't die today. It won't die tomorrow. Teddy passed on last year, but this song has outlived him. It will outlive us.
Kids who are into music and so forth and so on.
I think as maybe as a layman and just someone who enjoys music, for me, what appeals to me about the song is its simplicity. Like you say, it's it's it's a very simple song. you know, it's not complex, but also it it is I find it to be a celebration of Kiswahili as a language because you're in this new land, you find that the Swahili speaking land. Yeah. And it it gives you an entry a very simple entry into the language

20:06
and if you live with nothing else, you can leave with this catchy tune and you meet a Kenya, you can say jambo and you can basic greetings. So I I really like the simplicity of that and it's a great story to to capture. Yeah.
You know when we did this song
in Mombasa
many peers band laughed.
Yeah.
Peer bands.
Yes.
You know I won't name I won't name name them but they're saying these guys went all the way to Nairobi to record a nursery school rhyme man.
Yes. Yes.
But then after 3 months
the entertainment managers were telling them you have to play jumbo. You have to play jumbo. All the all of a sudden we we were when we performed at Serena, we were resident at Serena and Sever.

20:52
You could walk along the beach.
Yes.
From hotel to hotel and you hear it hear
this band, this hotel Jambo Buana being played [laughter] this, you know, all the way from Shanzu somewhere there down.
Yeah.
Where there's a band playing and they had to play it. Eventually they marketed the the song for us and here we are.
So you you speak about something um um interesting about um maybe we can talk about the business of music and how um as an observer I think the 70s were a high the 80s I don't think many younger Kenyans are aware that people like Polygram records had a base in Nairobi. Yeah. um those were the years when we used to press records, you know, and that's why you've been called to Nairobi to to record. So maybe we can talk about

21:49 the business side of that and and and using that example that you have given us of how a a music executive from Polygram is uh on holiday in Mombasa hears you play a song and calls you to Nairobi and you you record a song that goes platinum. Yeah. um a Kenyan song that goes platinum. So maybe let's talk about the business of music environment. We have already understood that you recording you are resident bands that was one revenue stream and then now you're record and selling records. So how was the scene then?
Well the scene was very organized.
Yes.
And uh we have the majors what we can call the majors. We had CBS Colombia Broadcasting Services CBS had a an office here.
Yes. original office

22:38
uh poly polyram had a regional office
and [clears throat] you'll be surprised that Tanzania, Uganda and parts of eastern Congo
yes
when they wanted to record they had to come to Kenya Kenya was like the focus yeah the hub
and um so fast forward when we recorded Jumbo
we all of a sudden we saw the opportunity for another revenue stream
Mhm. M
we had released a single.
Mhm.
Jambo was the first song we ever entered a studio to record and became a mega hit.
Mhm.
So when we realiz we realized that the song was loved by the tourists,
we started ordering for boxes of vinyl singles
from Nairobi.
Yes.
As we play
Mhm.
wherever we performed in the tourist circuit.

23:31
Yes.
We would we have our roies, our technicians. Yes. And we tell them go around amongst the you know
the guests
the guests
and sell the
the the the single
the single.
And out of curiosity what was uh first I have two questions. What was on side B because the the side those used to have side A and side B. But how and what was the price?
Uh just to contextualize the times.
Wow.
I can't remember but it was it was good money. Okay. I think in the range of what 10 15 bob.
Yes. Yes.
But that was a lot.
That was a lot for the time. Okay.
The B side was Mombasa.
Okay.
Yeah. Okay.
We sang we had a song uh about
Mombasa Island of No, that that's by Safari.

24:21
That's Safari.
Ours was [clears throat] just Mombasa, you know, talking about the beauty.
Okay. Okay.
So, we used to sell the the singles.
Mhm. And a lot of them.
Wow.
Because we had like an exclusive [clears throat] market. We used to tell uh Polygram whoever wants to get the singles, they should get them through us down at the course.
Yes.
So, initially that was the way it was. And then they said, "No, no, no. You guys are blocking a huge market because if other people sell the single,
you're still going to get your royalties."
Yes. you know, from the mechanical
and otherwise.
And we agreed and all of a sudden the music shops in town back then, Asen, Shanka,

25:08
yes,
were
had the single in stock.
And then all of a sudden nearly all the bands performing in the beach hotels used to come and buy the singles and do the same what we what we were doing. So here is a live performance giving us one revenue stream
and the singles
is selling.
Yeah. Selling.
Wow.
And by the time the cassettes came in
now we had an album out with Jambo being the lead song again. We started selling cassettes.
Mhm.
And it went on and on, you know, until the advent of CDs is when things got a bit
Yes.
bad.
Okay. Okay. Okay. So um um uh like I said I've been a fan and I I I love Swahili as a language and so I've followed you but I am something many people may not know about them mushrooms. You're also responsible for um I think reintroducing one of the icons of East African music to a younger generation by Fadi Williams. you you did a lot of Fili Williams work and and you played it in a modern context and and what was the inspiration be

26:24 behind that? Is Fadi Williams someone you followed as a musician and listened being from the coast and he was a a quite a rich coastal musician? What was the inspiration be behind bringing that music back to life?
Well, Fadili and his peers,
yes,
were the musicians we looked up to. Okay.
You know, Fadili came from the coast
but then moved to Nairobi and he was settled in Nairobi is where everything was happening.
Yes.
And we looked up to Fadili and all his peer musicians
and then Fadili left Kenya went to the US was there for I think almost 10 years.
Yes.
When he came back we approached him and we said look we are now in Nairobi. M
we are at the I think there was Panaffric Hotel resident band at the Panaffric Hotel. Sorry I mentioned names.

27:16
Yes.
And uh we called in Fadili, we called in Kabaka, we called in Daudi Kabaka, we called in uh Mundik.
Yes.
And we started organizing shows, rehearsing with them.
And then we had these theme nights. Yes.
At the Panaffric Hotel. Yes.
That's how we got Fadil back into the music. scene.
Yeah.
As well as Fund. And later on,
we didn't record Fadili, but he gave us the permission to record Malika.
Yes.
So, we did a cover of his Malikica, but in a reggae version.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
And uh that's it. He started performing again,
but then it wasn't long before he passed on.
Yeah.
Oh, wow. This this is a this is really great to be part of. But let's move now into the '90s. Yeah. and we start to experience um um the people you mentioned CBS um Polygram that whole scene starts to to maybe I I don't think die down is the right word because it didn't die completely but it it didn't experience the vibrancy of the 70s and the 80s. So what exactly happened? But what what pushed the industry into that space of

28:40 maybe we can call it depressed when compared to the 70s and the 80s. What what what how did that happen?
Well, I think the advent of uh music cassettes brought that about.
Yes.
You know during the vinyls there was only one uh printing press.
Yes.
At Polygram.
Yes.
In the whole region. Yes.
Almost eastern central Africa. But then when the advent of uh music cassettes then there were these uh machines that you could even start duplicating cassettes in in a small room
in bulk. Yeah.
In bulk.
Yes.
So that is what brought the majors to leave.
Mhm.
Because piracy just set in
and River Road was the hub
was the hub of the piracy. Yeah. I if I may just share one incident when we when we released much later when we released the Zillopenda the first Zillopenda series it was on cassette.

29:40
Yes.
And we used to our our staff used to go to River Road.
Yes.
And this guy said what kind of music is it? We'll just buy 50 copies. [laughter]
When they make a return visit a month later your music is not moving guys. But some some guys were telling us they're printing this stuff back in their back offices and the cassettes were all over.
Yes.
So that is what brought about you know the decline because piracy set in and with music cassettes it became so easy
to duplicate
uh anybody's work.
Yes. Without them receiving anything for it.
And many artists were not getting any royalties from that. It was the tiny tiny shop owners. Not all of them were doing that, but

30:31
a bigger percentage of River Road was all about piracy,
you know. Um just um another musician to share with you how piracy was. I was reading an article about Susanna O. Yeah.
And her famous Kisum 100 song
and she says she releases the song in Nairobi. Yeah. Kisum 100. And that evening she was scheduled to travel by bus to Kisumu. Yeah. And she gets into the bus overnight trip uh into Kisumu. Yeah. And she arrives Kisumu early morning. So she takes a nap in the bus until about 7:00. And when she wakes up to now go about her affairs in Kisumu, the first hawker she meets, [laughter] the first hawker she meets hawking cassettes has Kisumu 100 which was released in Nairobi the day before. So piracy really did hit people hard.

31:32
We witnessed that in in I think it was near. Yes,
we had gone for a show in that time we had released the cassette uh I think going places which had
Yes. song we went to to that the hotel I can't remember the name did the sound check and then we said hey just to you know kasta in in the in the town let's walk around and we left the vans and we just walking around in town and these guys thought we are tourists
they come with our cassettes here this [laughter] and then one of them just said where how do we everybody started running hell to sketch [laughter] that's fabulous but but I think it speaks to you and and and it's great to have you on because it speaks to your longevity that it was a wave and you rode it and and and I think it's important to now mention because you mentioned it in passing. I I find when I study them mushrooms and the history

32:41 that you are very creative in terms of um piracy killed a lot of musicians and a lot of musical bands but you kind of adapted to this new reality and then came the theme nights you know you you started at Panaffric. Yeah. I know uh when in my time working at the carnival we we put together quite a few coast nights with you you know and and events like that. So now maybe tell us about this transition because you have experienced you start at a high in the 70s the music is up here you know you go through the 80s you have this jumbo buana hit you come back and then piracy kicks in and it becomes a big issue but you adapt. So maybe tell us a bit about that side of the mushrooms innovation and adaptability.

33:32
Um I'll take you back to the TBTs I'm doing on my Facebook page.
Yes.
At the bottom I always have hashtag resilience pace.
Yes.
And we believe in reinvention.
Mhm. [clears throat]
And uh to a certain extent extent not to show off or anything we say we we've always wanted to be a band of many fasts.
Yes. There's so many fasts that we have that
now to answer your question when we saw that piracy was taking down sales
we thought we had to start something else and like rightly so we started it at the Panopre Hotel
and then when we moved uh that was after we moved to Pan from the Carnival. Yes. But if you know that we at the carnival we did the first African night. We called it the African night

34:25
and luckily the management u took in that idea
positively
and we started the African nights at the carnival.
Yes. They became so big and if I may give just one example there was a time we proposed that to the to the manu we would like to have
uh the kikuya singer he's passed now
who
Joseph [clears throat] Kamaru
Kamaru yes
yeah we are the ones who said we want to have Joseph Kamaru at the and
the lower was saying but this guy with this place I this is what we want
and you will see the
you will see the impact
the impact Yeah.
And then what are we going? We said bring Muratina do and they tried it.
Yes.
It was big.
After that is when we said now we have to have our own thing and that's when we started the coast night.

35:21
Yes.
You know.
Yes.
The coast night has been running.
Yes. Has been running for a while.
For a while. Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat]
And that's what we keep on doing. Every time we see there's something that's going to take us off course, we try to
map or map out something else.
And we thank the Almighty for his grace. Sometimes we've taken risks going to perform where many bands
Yes.
wouldn't perform.
Yeah.
I give you another example.
We were the first band to perform in Ethiopia
in 16 years when Mangistu was in power.
Okay. when he came to power, he locked down, clamped on foreign music, foreign artists.
Yes.
We were the first band
to perform there.

36:06
How did you get there?
Uh the the minister they they heard about our fame
and music while we were at the Carnival.
Yes.
Said the Ministry of Tourism came sent somebody to us.
Mhm. Ethopian Minister of Tourism. They sent somebody to us. They had the East African Leather Fair in Adis Sababa.
Yes. So we went to perform there. We signed up for two shows. We ended up performing for 3 months.
Wow.
And that here's why I'm saying this.
Yes.
When they said their places, we told them we don't just don't want to perform in Adis Sababa.
Yeah.
We want to go to the farflung places.
And they said we can take you to the other places
but it's a bit risky. He said with music if there's war they love us if and we went to Wiso Jima

36:59
and these are places that there was curfew from I don't know what time to what time but every time we got into the town
the waring parties [laughter]
they would take a break to to to enjoy some music.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] So that's the way God has you know blessed this band.
Wow. Yeah.
Wow. John. Um, but let's speak a bit um um let me park the the Mushrooms B aside and speak a bit about John because I know that you're very passionate not just about the mushrooms as a band uh which has been your bread and butter for your entire life. But you're also passionate about the industry. Yeah. and you participate or you give of yourself and your time to a lot of industry initiatives whether it's think tanks

37:51 whether it's brainstorming sessions whether it's how to influence policy how to contribute how to tackle piracy so let's speak about that what is driving you down that path you know why do you feel the need to give of yourself sometimes um 90% of the time for no personal gain or reward yet you still do it. What what is driving you? And I I I also know you talk to and you give of your time to a lot of Kenya's younger musicians. They consult you, they talk to you, they engage with you. Uh what what is driving that?
One, passion for music. Two,
um just want to leave the place a better place than what we found it. Mhm.
You know,
we we we came through a lot of challenges in music.
Yes.

38:44
And I think it was because
back then it was all about talk uh performances and all. Nothing to do with inspiring other
Yes.
younger artists. Nothing to do with motivating. Nothing to do with policy like you say because I'm I've been involved in some of these things. Yes. And it's all about trying to leave this music space and carving out it carving it out from the creative space the music space
better than what we found
when we came in onto it.
Okay. Okay.
And the fortunately there's a lot that one can do and I think
one way God has given me the ability to to manage my time well.
Yes. and to uh contribute to all these spaces.
Yes.
That you have mentioned.
Yes.

39:35
Yeah. But what drives me is just that I love music and anywhere there's something to do with music,
I want to be there.
Yeah. If it's policy, I want to be there. If it's just giving a motivational uh talk somewhere, if it's a workshop, I've conducted a lot of workshops on copyright and related rights.
Yeah.
And the music business in general.
Okay.
Yeah. So where would you rank us now having this 50 plus year experience where would you say Kenya's music scene is today in but by your assessment
we are up there
and can still can go higher
let me talk now allow me to mention like Saudi soul you mentioned they're up there
yes
you know I'm proud of them Ben delvin and the lot And then there's CA MA there's so many Kenyans doing great things now

40:33
musically speaking
within the country
and beyond
and that is what
should be because music is a product
it should be exported like any other product we have plenty of it with given our heritage you know the traditional side and all that
if we combine all this and come up with all these products
we conquer the world. M m
Nigeria has done it. Why not Kenya?
Yeah,
we are doing it now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So when um allow me to double a bit in African music instruments. Yeah. Because of the path that you have t and the longevity that you have had. You have experimented a lot and when you listen to your music I know you you use a lot of mijika instruments. You know you I've I've I've had songs with the chivote uh with the danzel and a few other instruments. Yeah. That's something that we don't see too much of and I think

41:28 it's it's it's like you say it's a huge gaping opportunity. What do you think we can do to maybe get modern artists to use traditional instruments and thus keep them alive?
Um this would be a bit radical. Yeah. Um you know if you look at our constitution it talks about our
Kenyan uh broadcast airwaves.
Yes.
As a national asset.
Mhm.
Giving it to foreign content 90 or 80% is where the problem is.
Yes. If the government
can re in say just like the other we can benchmark Nigeria is doing I think 80% local
20% foreign
yeah we are doing 15 the law says 40% but we are doing about 15% local and maybe the rest foreign
foreign yeah
we need to bring that to back into perspective and then we also need

42:35
to see more of traditional musicians being featured on, you know, on on on on in the media,
both print and electronic.
Yes.
There's a wave going on down in Kilifi County right now.
The Monzel wave.
Yes.
We did it and called it.
Yes.
When we recorded some of the songs in 2003,
the young artists are calling it Monzle. The traditional genre.
Yeah. And it's becoming big in Kilifi County. Okay.
Why? Because younger guys are doing it now.
Yes.
And they infusing, you know, traditional instruments.
Nice.
DMA.
Yes.
Cayamba.
And so forth and so on.
Why? Because they've been exposed somehow to to those instruments.
Yes.
At national celebrations within Kilifi County.

43:30
Okay.
Yeah. So that's what we need more of more of our own stuff.
Okay. being younger generations being exposed to
such instruments and such music. So it's all about fusing the two you know
and we get something new but Kenyan
so now that in in one of your latest Facebook posts you said that the studio is calling you I saw you polishing up the the decks and and getting back into the studio. So, do we expect you to see more of these recordings featuring traditional music instruments and and inspiring artists, continuing to inspire artists down that route?
Definitely. Yes.
Yeah.
Uh yes, I said it in my Facebook that after 8 years. Yes.
You know, I it's slightly more than 8 years.

44:19
Mhm.
But 8 years specifically because that's how long my elder brother was sick. And I just we just dro as a family we dropped everything to take care of him.
Yes. So after 8 years,
yeah,
I'm getting focused on music again.
Okay.
And then
Yes. in fact, just this week,
we've been talking to I won't mention his name, we've been talking to one young artist from Kify County.
Mhm. [clears throat]
But prior to that,
in 19 in in 2022,
Yes.
we had a listening session.
Mhm.
At uh at Alons.
Mhm. where we called in young music producers. Yes. And we told them, look, this is our music.
You can pick anyone.
Yes.
And we can work together. Yes.
That was a project on its own. Some did.

45:11
Yeah.
But now we want to go back to
not Manzel, but is a fusion. Yes.
Monzelle is the raw stuff.
Yes.
And we've already identified one musician from Kifi County who's doing great stuff.
Yes. If I may just give a hint, everybody will have to Google and check.
He did a rap on um All My Enemies Are Suffering. He's released that.
Yeah, he did that because BN invited people to do covers in their own way.
Yeah, that's the guy we want to work with.
Okay. Excellent.
He's He's brilliant.
I'll go out and look for that.
Yeah. Yeah. Look for him.
Excellent. So, John, you we started this podcast episode by you telling us how influential your mother was in in in in allowing you guys to be yourselves, discover yourselves as musicians. Yeah. And I know uh you became a family man through this through this journey and you've also been that to your your your kids. Yeah. because um uh you have a son who I know is studying law but uh you're a very musical family. Your your your

46:19 kids have gone down that route and they play music but they haven't been boxed necessarily. You have to come into the band. They've kind of found their way there in their own way. So tell us a bit about that about fatherhood about the impact parentthood has in in um exposing the gifts that their kids or living the gifts that that that the kids their kids have. Um well the balancing act that you have to
endure
yes
especially when the kids start coming in
is what that's the time that I went through or we went through individually with my siblings where it was a bit tight for us because
like our kids started coming in when we were touring sometimes we were out of the country for 8 months.

47:11
Yes. you come back, your wife says but but but you know so we had to cut down on that. Yeah, we actually cut down on the tours.
Mhm.
Now we are free again. Happy that most of our kids uh some not all of them
Yes.
are artistic.
Either in music or anything that is music related
so to give a specific example my late brother's two sons they both musicians. One was based in Sweden, one passed away in Greece just last year before him.
My son, like you say, he plays a couple of wind instruments.
And uh we have now our cousins, our nephews who are taking up after us.
Yes.
But the thing is we mentor them and some we teach but we let them decide what they want to do.
Yeah. So some are still indulging in music but doing other things.

48:12
Nice.
And I think we dream and they know that we dream of having them mushrooms go on and on and on.
Yes.
So the onus is on them.
Yes.
To pick up where we we've been we are already three of us are gone before
the Lord.
Yes. The rest of us, we don't know when, but we pray and hope like they'll come together one day and say, "No,
much as we're doing anything else, the mushroom should not
die."
Yeah.
That's our dream and hope.
Wow. John, um I think as a parting shot, um maybe we can just touch briefly about music education. Yeah. Um because in a previous episode of um of the podcast I had Moses Watwa on Moses Watra.
My son's my son.
Yes. Who of course your son was in Nairobi school. So maybe let's speak briefly about the impact of school and there are some select schools in Kenya which have very vibrant music programs and the music programs go above and beyond just teaching music as a curriculum course but they they get the kids to love music because they play music and music is embedded into the life of the school. So let's speak to that a bit and what's it it its impact

49:36 is to have music in their lives in that way for for students.
It's very good. I think it's it's uh scientifically proven that academics and uh music can go together.
Yes. And in fact they say you can Google this somewhere they say that the kids who are uh learning music somehow improve on their academics.
Yes
the only thing is that [clears throat] as musicians most of us are not built with academic minds. We we have we can do excel and but we don't want to concentrate on that. So coming back to what you you you asked, it's very good. In fact, I'm happy about the new uh education system now. It's brought back music into the form.
Yeah.
The only thing that we need to start thinking about is

50:39
look at music as a business.
Yeah.
Music the songs are products.
Yes.
Now we need to take that to the higher learning institutions.
Yes. because most of them are coming up with um what can I say almost academicas in the field of music.
Yes.
Yeah.
But after after like Kenyata University after that where do they go?
True.
We need to have something like a Bley College of Music. Sorry.
Yes.
Bley what have you where you can now go and learn the business of music.
Music. Okay. You know if for example you ask for entertainment lawyers in the country today in Nairobi I know about what four or five
yes
we need more of that
yes
and it's not just about looking at the music per se

51:34
intellectual property
is in everything we use today
the microphones
yes
the cars da da da but if you condense it to music
it's a big big big thing.
Yeah.
Nobody in the world today
doesn't have even one thing that doesn't uh does not have someone's intellectual property in it. The shirts we're wearing,
the microphones we're using,
the spoons at home.
Yeah.
So, we need to look at music as part of that intellectual property where it needs to be protected.
Yeah. Just like you can protect your shamba, your house, etc.
Now this is where the gap is.
Yeah.
When these kids come out of uh school in form for four or at university higher learning beyond that there's nothing.

52:32
Yeah.
So this is the the one thing that I I dream of. I Okay. Yeah. So and basically curating the entire business of music and also having institutions that are teaching this in addition to the teaching of music.
So uh whether it's the producers, the sound engineers, the and everything around it. I think that's fabulous. John, wow, what a fabulous conversation. I think u I'll now give you a chance to speak to the audience and tell them where they can find you. What are your social media handles? um uh them mushrooms is still a performing band if they want to book you for corporate functions or just to interact with you how they can connect with you.
Yeah, thank you so much Leonard

53:19
for having me and uh here's one thing you go to www.themushrooms.com them mushrooms.com. You will get all the information you need about the band. All our social media handles are on the website.
How you can reach us and our music past, present, and soon to be future because we we we're going back to recording.
Yes.
The website, I repeat, www.themushrooms.com. Them mushrooms, not the mushrooms. com.
Okay,
you get all the information.
Excellent. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you have enjoyed that episode as much as I have. It was a great pleasure and honor uh to have John Katana Harrison uh on uh the African Do podcast where we tell stories of excellent Africans executing excellently and the mushrooms a 52year-old band and still performing in the Kenyan landscape uh which is just a phenomenal phenomenal story. So, we look forward to having you. Stay with

54:27 us. Subscribe to our YouTube channel uh where you'll be able to read uh to watch or listen to all our other episodes. And we look forward to having you in the next episode. Sana.