Esther Otieno — transcript

BaristaPro

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:01 [Music] Greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 31 of the African do podcast. Today we go into the world of coffee deep into the world of coffee and we are very privileged to have with us Esther Otenu. Esther is the founder and CEO of Barista Pro Kenya Limited and we'll discuss a lot about coffee about baristas and barista pro and what they do. Esther, welcome to the African Do podcast.
Great. Um, so you you're not a coffee person in the sense that your early career. So, where does Esther let's let's start at the beginning of your journey before we delve into how you got into coffee or how you became part and parcel of coffee?
So, where does your career start or or where do you find yourself? Um,

0:52
okay.
Post uh your tertiary education. uh I find myself in marketing.
I believed uh that uh I will be a good marketer.
Yes.
So I pursued marketing. Yeah. And that's the line I was looking at.
Mhm.
And uh my first job um after high school was in uh you know these sales ladies
selling uh wipers somewhere just to get some pocket money.
Wipers.
Just to get some pocket money.
Yeah. In a below the line marketing firm.
Yes. uh remember that is where I want to go in marketing. Yeah. So I started as a saleserson then after that this company there's an opportunity that came through I became their receptionist. Now I'm right in uh the middle of this marketing company learning some ropes even as I do my re reception work.

1:43
Yes.
Um even in school I pursued um marketing education.
Yeah. Then as I'm doing this job um just uh my sister comes I was like hey there's another opportunity I've had
uh they're looking for like an assistant for the production manager in a certain coffee company. So I was like oh okay I'm looking for growth let let me see. Yeah. So it was in my head it was an admin job. So I was like okay let me let me go and see. Yeah.
So now when I'm interviewing during the interview with this company, they're looking at me like this lady, she doesn't suit the that uh what's this
that position let us uh take her to another interview that is being done for a certain position and this was a coffee company.

2:32
Yeah.
So I go for a totally different interview and there was like yeah this is it. This is a still in sales. Yeah. But now I'm dealing with the coffee as a product. So
are we at liberty to mention the company it?
Oh yes yes do coffee. Yes.
And if if if memory serves me right around the time you're joining domans. Yeah. Doss was largely
exporting a lot of coffee. Right. Not so much local in the sense that local consumption
was not that high but they were um buying coffee beans roasting them and exporting them. Is that correct? Yes, that is very correct. It it was uh and still is uh one of the leading uh coffee exporters uh in east uh in East Africa. Yes. So yes, they a lot of their business was in exporting. Okay.

3:24
But now they wanted to now focus on uh the local market and selling roasted coffee.
Okay.
Yeah. So you you you who do you what do you join doz?
Uh we were actually sales representatives. Uh but we were attached to the hospitality clients. Hospitality clients meaning clients who buy coffee.
Yes.
To brew the coffee and they are serving it as a beverage. Uh namely the hotels, coffee shops, restaurants. So that is uh who we were attached to.
And and by this time um is it largely hotels or has Kenya has the coffee shop culture started to emerge?
There was no coffee shop. There was nothing. There was no coffee shop culture. In fact, the guys who came with the coffee shop culture was Java. Java is the one who started the coffee. Yes. They were the pioneers. Yes.

4:14
Um then came in also. Yeah. With their own coffee shop. So then like serious coffee shops. They were just those two
Java and and Dolman. So it was largely hotels. We were selling the coffee to largely hotels.
And what does your job then entail? Because as as coffee is unique in the sense that particularly if you're selling it to hotels,
you can't just sell it. You know, it's not just an item. Um because the way that the end customer
consumes it requires a bit of a process.
Yes.
So what does that what what do you find yourself doing and how do you now start learning the technical side of of of coffee?
Okay. So this is how the barista aspect comes in because yes we were salespeople we were uh our work was to make sure that we sell uh doman's coffee to these hotels.

5:08
Yeah.
But you see this hotels because they are brewing coffee. We as the salespeople also needed to know first of all product knowledge about coffee. That's the first thing. Then about uh the company's products and number three and most importantly is the barista skills because if a hotel is already buying the coffee and they come and say okay we have a quality issue uh about the coffee we have to go and check we needed to check the grinders we needed to check the espresso machines we needed to check out their coffee. So we needed to be trained in barista skills so that we are able to to add value to our sales job. But trained by who now? Because that is a skill set that
it's not it's not a role. It has not yet emerged into a role. Uh the barista was was unheard of. Let let's say that in a Kenyan context. So who's doing your training?

6:00
Very true. Uh at that time um what's this? Our boss was the one doing the training. But even him,
he had to travel out of the country.
Okay.
Yeah.
To learn about the baristas. And you're very right. There was no one who knew what this thing was in Kenya. No one knew. So um the pioneers of this barista skills and barista training actually were mostly trained abroad or we got somebody from abroad to come and train you. Yes.
As a sales people so you can sell better.
Exactly. Exactly. And and also I did a lot of traveling.
I did a lot because the skill wasn't here.
Yeah. It was mostly abroad because Kenyans Kenya is producing good quality coffee but we don't know anything about brewing it.

6:48
Yeah. So that barista skill and things like that we had to get it from abroad.
And if I if I recall right um the if my memory serves me right those days early early late 1990s early 2000s we were probably sitting at between 1 and 2% local consumption of coffee produced. Yeah.
Yeah. It was actually at 2% at that time. Yeah. Kenyans were really not drinking coffee. We didn't even have a coffee shop culture. And as you know uh most Kenyans their first coffee experience is in the coffee shops. Yes.
That's why I'm a big advocate of coffee shops because that's where most Kenyans experience their first coffee not at home. Yes.
Yeah. So
Okay.
So um you you you you are in sales.
Yes.

7:38
Yeah. Um and you you you transition I guess because uh out of sales
and um Dolman sees the need to create a training department.
Yes.
Maybe let's speak before we talk about the training department itself.
Let's speak about what drove that demand. What what what made the people at Dorman's say, "Okay, maybe it would make a lot of sense for us to to to to form a a training department internally to train people on how to brew coffee."
Because we discovered that people are not drinking coffee because they just don't know about it.
Mhm.
Yeah. We were brought up in homes where people are just drinking tea. We were not exposed to coffee. So, people just lacked knowledge. Until today, people lack knowledge. And I'll give uh an example of myself.

8:27
Yes. Yeah, because I'm a coffee professional and a passionate coffee educator.
Anyone I come in contact with, my family, my friends, I have to talk about coffee. In fact, people uh call me the coffee evangelist because I always take that opportunity to educate them about coffee. And if they find me in my office space because I have coffee machines and I'm all about coffee, I even brew for them a cup
and they get shocked. They're like, "But Esther, I can drink this coffee
without actually putting sugar."
True. How like a well brewed cup of coffee? Yes. Like what's the difference? Because for me, I don't drink coffee because most of the time it's bitter.
And Dman's actually found it's because people just don't know about coffee. The moment you start educating them about coffee in terms of the product and also now teaching them how to brew coffee at home, a decent cup of coffee at home. And also these coffee shops or restaurants or hotels we teach them they they just do it right and people start drinking coffee. So we're like okay because we want to be part of uh boosting coffee consumption why don't we

9:31 just start training the public?
Okay.
Yeah.
So and and uh when when do set up this you're training both the public but I assume you'd also be training institutions. So your customers in the hotels and by this time I think the coffee shops have started to emerge right so there's demand for this guy called the barista because coffee shops are starting to open open up in the country
so how was that journey what were what were the learnings from now you you you you started this training department I think you were the first training manager at at at Cmans yeah And also basically I'm just a pioneer of the barista school and barista training space.
Yes.
No one in Kenya and Africa were doing it.

10:20
Yes.
Yeah.
So Dolman's decided decided to take the bull but the like you know what we going to start the first barista training school in Africa.
Yeah. And Esther you are the one who's going to uh to lead it. And uh what happened then is because we saw the positive impact. Yeah.
Then quality started improving
and the first place that the quality started improving was in the hotels. Let me just give an example of the first client who really changed the game for for us. And we like okay this thing we need to drive it. I'll talk about Nairobi Serena.
Okay. We just went there and we're like guys um this coffee you're not doing it properly. We'll sell you the coffee. We are also going to give you the machines. Okay. Not for free but let's talk about you know maybe pol because you see um even in the hospitality training here in Kenya.

11:18
Yes.
Food and beverage managers don't know anything about coffee. They're not taught about coffee. Coffee is not our thing. M
so we came in there and we got a very good manager a very switched on FNB manager who was like okay let's partner with this this guy was open yeah and we like first of all uh not anyone can just brew this coffee
yeah give us a few people
create a training uh coffee department give us a few people even if it's four six people we train them properly create a coffee department you know
and they did this thing they supported this thing 100% they did this thing do you know their coffee sales skyrocketed like in uh in 6 months they had already returned the investment of the coffee machines which are not cheap. Yeah.

12:02
Yes.
In 6 months they had change uh they had returned the investment.
And when you're talking about coffee machines, you're not talking about filter brew machines. You're talking about the espresso machines.
Yes. You're talking about espresso machines, espresso grinders, which are also very expensive. like their their coffee sales just went up because the customers could uh
uh what's this experience the change in quality
and because of that success story we just started rolling it out to other places. So number one coffee changed. Number two coffee knowledge. People started getting coffee knowledge and then now consumers started educating guys where they going to drink coffee. No you know uh I learned about ABCD. So

12:46
even the coffee shops were now like hey we are now getting customers who know what they they want and they demanding for it. So even us now we need to to style up. So it was just a a ripple effect that just changed the coffee quality in Kenya. Did you then also uh begin to see um people now having preferences in terms of the rosting of their beans? You know, saying that I'm a I'm a medium roast person or I'm a dark rock. Maybe we can speak a bit about the product, the coffee itself.
Okay, that is still a journey until now. It has improved from uh since I started in the coffee industry, but it's still a journey. Not very many people are still exposed to coffee because you know uh Kenyans think coffee is for the elite. Yeah. It's expensive. It's for a certain group of people. Uh but not really. So there are still many people who don't really know much about coffee but it's not like back in the day. Now things are

13:43 growing. Even the coffee culture is becoming more vibrant. Yeah. Because we are now having so many coffee shops, good coffee shops selling good coffee. But still we have um still a long way to go in terms of educating the Kenyan public about coffee but now there are many people who are you know providing that kind of uh knowledge. Okay.
Uh so we've not yet still um reached where we are supposed to be because
Kenyans still don't know uh what is a dark roast, what is a medium roast, what is a light ro and what is the difference. Yeah. Because when you go to the supermarket, you will find maybe a certain uh brand. Yeah.
Same same packet
but you see one is written a medium roast, one is written a dark roast. Yeah. People always call esta me I'm just saying this packet is the same but the only difference is one is a medium roast. What's the difference? Now you start explaining the difference in terms of taste. Yeah. So when coffee is roasted we have three roast profiles.

14:45
Yes.
You start with the light roast. Then there's a medium roast. Then there's a dark roast. So the um the difference is apart from the physical difference which is the color. Light roast will be the lightest, dark roast will be dark.
The taste also changes because the longer you roast coffee, the more you lose flavors.
Oh really?
Yeah. The longer you roast, the more you lose flavor. So a dark roast will not really be flavorful. In fact, the dominant flavors in a dark roast will be uh it will be fullbodied or it will be bold. Uh it will be having some burnt kind of taste, smokey kind of taste and dark chocolate kind of tastes. Yeah.
Then a light roast will be lighter in your mouth. Yeah. And it will have it will be very flavorful.

15:31
Yeah. Very uh a light roast and a medium roast will have a lot of flavors. But dark roast now the flavors start reducing. Okay.
Yeah. And dark roast are usually stronger.
Yes.
Yeah. Compared to light roasts.
Okay. So you set up this uh training department at at and you're training both the general public, anyone who wants to come in and learn about coffee
and and I would assume you'd also be training people who are potential investors in coffee shops because coffee shops not now start to emerge. You know when I look at the journey between 1999 and 2010
you know Kenya really went through um that's when Java grew you know that's when Dormans also went out and set some coffee shops of their own but also uh we saw people like art cafe come to the market

16:24
and fast forward to today I mean there's a lot that has happened in the space and you have uh from small few coffee shops too large and and generally some things that in
I would say 1999 were were quite foreign you know cappuccinos lattes
those have become standard you know you you you get them pretty much everywhere. So how long do you stay with domans
um and um
to establish that training department and run it.
Okay. Um I actually stayed in domans for 10 years
but eight of those years were in training.
Okay. Because I needed to set it up like I set it up from scratch and I set it up using Google.
Oh really?
Yeah. It's those ones of you're like okay now
start this school. Remember a school needs a curriculum. It need lesson plan. And I have no clue. you're not you're not an educator or a trained educator

17:24
and there's no way I can get this information. So I just used to go to Google and see what the people abroad the barista schools abroad are doing and I copy pasted exactly what they were doing. My first class I quickly had to change that model
because it was not working for the Kenyans. Those are models that are working abroad but it was not working for Kenyans. And in fact it's my first class even the students were like hey no uh Esther this thing no uh we need to change it like this. So I started getting feedback from from the students and using it to change. Yeah. And that's just how it it grew. So the training I did that for eight uh 8 years.
Yeah.
Um what's this? And the actually the first people that I trained were people who are not really uh people who want to set up coffee shops. It was people who want to get barista jobs.

18:16
Those were Yeah. Those were actually the first and most of them are youth.
Yes.
Yeah. Most of them are used.
So people who want to to improve their chances when they applying for jobs now in the emerging employers who are coffee shops or the hospitality outlets like like the Serena example you gave us. Uh those are the people who were coming in to train.
Exactly. In fact now is when now you're getting uh uh entrepreneurs who want to start a coffee shop. Now is when uh we are getting them. But then it was mostly guys who just want to get barista jobs.
Okay. Yeah.
So you then decide to leave domans.
Yes.
And uh um um first maybe walk us through your thinking. What opportunity did you see

19:00
that made you say okay maybe I should go out and uh and and and set something in in of your own and then we can discuss the something that you set up.
I was not even thinking along those lines. I was not
I had just reached a place where uh I saw like now there's no more room for growth.
Yes.
I'm stagnating.
Yes.
And I'm I'm done. I want something new.
So it was just that thing of just wanting to do something new.
Okay.
I believe you me when I was leaving
I had no plan.
So it's not like you left to say I'm going to set up this. Okay. So you you were you were taking a break.
Yes, exactly. I was taking a in fact I was taking a break and and I remember that time and it it's just a disturbance that starts happening within you.

19:55
Yeah.
And honestly I had procrastinated for 3 years. Yes.
I had started feeling like that for
you had been feeling you had that feeling for a while.
For a while.
Yeah.
And and it was not getting any better.
So is that a break? something you'd re recommend to people who are out there in a job and and maybe feeling that they have come to the end of the tether.
Yeah. Did the break what did you what did what did you achieve with the break?
Um it gives you room to have a clear mind to start thinking what next what do you want to do and during that break I did a lot of research about myself because at that time I was 35 years old. I was like, "Okay, Esther, uh, who is Esther? What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? What what kind of a person are you? What is your personality type?" I I was even doing those uh what's this

20:47
uh the research? What is my personality type? You
must have been doing some psychology. My career in terms of my personality, what careers align with my personality? Like that was what I was doing at that time. Just getting to know who I am
and what I enjoy doing. And now what will I do now going forward? Yeah. So it was a lot of soulsearching and
from the time you resign or step down from your job at domans, how long did this soul searching phase last?
3 months. Yeah. 3 months. And I remember in in my research I was like my personality is telling me I can be a good counselor. I can be a good HR practitioner and a good teacher like that's what it was matching. So I was like okay I'm going to start looking for jobs by I just want to laugh at myself

21:45
I want to laugh at because I wouldn't no no no no no
I laugh at myself
instead applying for HR jobs
imagine imagine
then a friend of mine just told me Esther what are you doing
Esther you you can't be you can't just start a whole different career
yeah you are a Food coffee teacher.
Yeah.
Stick to what you do. Stick to what you know. Stick to what you do best.
Yeah.
Why are you starting from scratch?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Stick with what you know. And what you know is coffee and you're a good teacher.
Yeah.
And may I think you should do this thing.
Mhm.
And then I was like, "Ah, okay." But I just ignored. And then now the person who put pressure
is my brother-in-law.

22:31
Yes. because he was just hearing these conversations when I'm talking to my sister these conversations like yeah I don't know what to do and then he was just like um you're a good coffee professional
I hear your conversations I believe in you
do a business plan start this thing again I agree
what is this thing you've been told to start
he just told me just start your own school
like just start your own baristas what are you still waiting Mhm.
Yeah.
Me, I started getting scared because I never imagined I'd
I'd be a what's this?
Business owner.
Yeah. Business owner. I was just thinking employment.
So I haped that conversation.
The guy followed up.
The guy is on your case.

23:18
Yeah.
I ignored. Then my sister came was like this guy told me gave you an assignment and you've not done.
I was like this now I can't escape. I did a business plan. Uh do you know he just wrote a check?
So he is your funer. He is the first founder.
Just wrote a check.
This is the business land. Now go do it.
And this is the man start.
And Barista Pro Kenya Limited is born.
Yes. With fear and trembling.
Okay.
Yes.
And what first of all let me tell you I think I can tell you that that's unbelievable to to get that
Mhm. to get someone who believes in you to the po to the point where he writes a check.
Yeah. That that that that's the Kenya we we hope for, you know.

24:08
Yeah. And you're in a corner now. There's no escaping like what is the excuse?
So you take the check and do what?
Yeah. Okay. Now I was like I start planning now. See, you know, I' had written a business. Now I start planning. Okay.
I need space.
Yeah. But even before we get there, I didn't start with space.
Yes.
Yeah. Remember in this 3 months of soularching? Yeah. There are people still following me. They're like, "Ah, we here you left. Oh, where are you? Oh, me. I want to do this international." And these are students that I had trained when I was employed. Yeah. I want to do this international certification because again, I was the only one who had that certification in Africa. Okay.

24:43
Yeah. So, they're like, "I want this international certification and now me I need to do it."
So, uh my former boss my former boss who had left before me was running uh uh a coffee shop.
Yes. And I didn't want to let these guys down, these students down. So I was like, okay, I don't have a space. I need to do this certification. I just need a coffee machine
because it's a how will I do the practical exams? I need a coffee machine.
So I went to my former boss who had a coffee shop.
Yes.
And I was like, okay.
And his name is Peter Witti, by the way.
Yes.
Who runs pizza? I know Pet. Thank you. Thank you.
Pet of Pete's Coffee. Yeah. And Peter was like, Esther, come in. in fact just come in. He told me when the the what's this during off peak hours that's when it's quiet they can do the uh the certification there. So I actually used his coffee shop to do uh a few

25:39
let me understand this certification. So you are a certified trainer by this time you because of your training
internationally certified barista training by this uh global coffee organization that any everyone in the coffee industry know called specialty coffee association.
Okay. Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah. And I was the only one who had uh that qualification at that time. Yeah. So these guys didn't want to know. They pursued me. So that's how I I got to ask Peter for his uh
So how so you are now training? You're outside your your your in your sabbatical but people are still looking for you. So you're running your training. Yes.
And how does that feed into the establishment of your your institution? uh because now um at that time I was um using uh Peter's premise because I didn't have my own but now I started looking.

26:30
Yeah. And also and I was getting frustrated because I didn't I I wanted to keep my expenses low when I'm starting because I don't know how this thing is going to go and also I don't have at all that money you know. So um again Peter is the one who told me Essa stop looking at commercial spaces stop looking at commercial go residential spaces they have some very good uh spaces that you know at a good price and
I started looking and I got uh a good one
and then again uh another
good one. What was it?
Um it was a very good
a house or a studio or what was it?
Okay. No, it was a house. It was a house that was
uh being used for 5 years. It was being used by um a UN agency. They had hired it for 5 years and they were keeping refugees there. Like the the first two floors were offices and then

27:26
uh floor 3, four and five
were accommodation where they used to keep these refugees before now they are sent abroad.
Okay. Then now when they finished the 5year contract of using that space, they handed it back to the Yeah. the landlord and the landlord now was turned them into residential.
Okay.
Yeah. So the way they were set up because UN was using it before
like it was just perfect for the setup of a trading facility like the way it was it wasn't like a house. It was Yeah. The way it was designed it was just perfect for uh
So you take a section of this? No, I take a a whole unit.
Okay. Oh. Oh, because there are there are several units now. Okay. So, you take one unit and what do you put in there?

28:14
Uh, nothing. Nothing. So, I I was like, "Okay, I can't afford these machines."
Yeah. So, I need to hire.
So, I started hiring again. Networks. Networks. So, I I knew uh colleagues of mine who had machines. Yeah.
So, I started hiring. M
I started hiring these machines. Uh so I started with one.
Yeah.
Um so one day um this this guy was hiring from in fact when when business started doing a bit well and it it took a while.
Yeah.
Um I asked one of these guys, do you would you like to sell this machine? Because now I'm like okay I'm hiring. I need my own. Yeah. So he was like uh yeah I wouldn't mind selling. and uh he sold it at a very good price. So I started with your first machine.

29:07
Yeah. Then the second one, the third one when business started growing still hiring poly too. So I grew organically. Yeah. I was not taking loans to you know I just I was using the money that I was plowing back into the into the business. So I started by hiring and slowly slowly I got my own equipment.
And what what are you training? What what is happening on the training side? What cost structure do you have?
Mhm. At least Who are you teaching?
Yeah. At least for cost structure, you know, these are things that I had already. Yes. I had already done. So I had that it's just getting clients and funnily I had a you know people knew me because I was the only teacher training you know. Yeah. And but I came to quickly realize as much as people believed in me and my teaching and uh you know they saw the value when I was starting they were not now bringing people to Barista Pro. M

30:01
yeah and then they're like okay Esther we know you are a good teacher and everything and but
the brand
brand
no one knows but
no one knows you. Yeah,
that thing crushed me and you know when I started
I was like ah me I'm the I'm the person yes I'm the one I'm the one I know this thing I'm the one now when people know I'm started they'll come all the way I didn't understand
power of the brand they're like hey you are a good teacher
but the brand no one
coming from we also coming to you at doman's no one knows your brand and when I go with a certificate with your brand no knows this brand, I might not get a job.
Okay.
Yeah. As much as I know you are a good uh teacher and are you seeing the way these things are tying in with the research I was doing?

30:51
Yes.
Until today people tell me you are a teacher.
You remember the the personalities and the careers and yeah now I came to realize my my true calling is a teacher.
Teaching.
Yeah. Teaching. Yeah.
So they're like okay the power of the brand was like wow wow wow. Okay. So they'd rather have a certificate that has a big brand that is known because they'll get uh jobs easily and that thing hurt but I understood it.
Okay.
And then I told myself Esther you have to start creating your own brand from scratch. You have to start. So I just accepted
and I started clean slate. Yeah. So the the first guys that I was teaching they actually the under barista pro they actually the ones who grew my brand.

31:40
Okay.
Yeah. Because now they were referring guys to to me and now guys are bringing uh people to me and then that's how uh Barista Pro grew
and also out there
the HR managers
out in the marketplace.
Out in the marketplace also helped.
Mhm.
Because some of them were just calling me out of the blue. I didn't even know They're like, "Hi, how are you? This is Esa." Yeah, we we've been getting um a number of your students
and I had to get in touch with you so that we can form a partnership because
when it comes to interviews and product knowledge and skills,
your students stand out.
Okay.
Your students stand out and I think you're doing something good there. And these are these are HR managers for I would assume uh hospitality institutions people who consume the barista that you train.

32:34
Yes. So they could see
uh the caliber of the students that are coming from barista program. Yeah. They were like a class above the rest. So they like no we want more of baristas coming from this institution. Yeah. And your funer is is was the the check sufficient to to establish this uh barista pro?
Yes. To start
or did you have to go for more funding?
Of course more. Yeah. Of course more. He just gave me something to start
seed capital.
Yeah. Exactly. Start you know just to encourage me I guess and then the rest now. Yeah.
Organically the business generated.
Exactly. Okay.
So where are you now? Are you still in the in the in the in the house? the former UN house

33:19
and now it grew. It grew and now we outgrew the space
and uh we had to look for a commercial space.
Okay. Yeah.
So, and you you you're now based at Are you still at Mirage?
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah. We are still at Mirage in Westlands.
Yes.
Yeah. So we stayed there uh in the residential space for 5 years but now we grew and now it demanded us to to move and look for a commercial space which we now found in Westlands at the Mirage.
And how does how does your output look now? What what is the setup like? What are the stations?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. Now we grew from uh one station to four stations.
Okay.
Yeah. To four stations. And we grew from me being everything and doing everything to now I hired some stuff. I hired uh two trainers.

34:09
Uh I hired admin. Yeah. So even in terms of staffing now we we are more people.
Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Okay. And so now where is Barista Pro now? What is Barista Pro as it exists today? What what do you do? Who do you train?
Okay. Um we we train many people still.
Mhm. uh our main uh clients will still be youth just looking for yes jobs and right now it's even becoming uh what's this more in demand because they're looking for jobs in cruise ships they're looking for jobs in the Gulf countries. Yeah. So right now it's still the youth they make let's say 95% of your of your student base. Yes. And we also have a few hospitality establishments who want us to go and train on their uh on

35:02 location. Yeah. Train their staff.
Yeah.
Um we also have uh entrepreneurs
who want to start coffee shops who are like okay I want to start a coffee shop but I need to understand coffee and I I need to understand how a coffee shop operates so I need some basic knowledge. Yeah. I don't want to start a business. Exactly.
Yeah. And do you find um sorry we also now do events because you have um a few people who want uh you know a coffee station at their function and they're like bring a coffee station and just serve my guests with bottomless coffee. Yeah. So we also do that.
Okay. Nice. And um let's speak a bit. You you you've talked about people who are looking for coffee shop. So there's been this global expos explosion of coffee consumption. you know we see it all over the world it's not just a Kenyan phenomenon yeah all over the world people so maybe speak to us a bit about your students

36:02
who train and who then leave the country and uh where some of them are and what careers they have built out of the platform of coffee that your training gave them
okay um half of them are here uh in Kenya
working in different hospitality establishments And half of them are actually abroad either in Gulf countries or working in cruise ships.
And um one thing um most of them are getting especially the ones who travel abroad
is they getting educated about career progression in coffee. You know here in Kenya
barista is not really valued as a skilled profession. M
in fact when I started people were people were actually thinking are you mad like who makes a living out of teaching people how to say in fact that's how they say what do you mean you need a skill you don't need a skill so they're like how can you make a livelihood or a career out of out of that so it's just out of uh lack of knowledge

37:12
um and that's the the attitude that uh most people in Kenya also
so the ones who are abroad What kind of pro career progression opportunities do they see?
Right now it's roasting. You you find some of them have now left being baristas. They are now roasters. Some of them are quality control managers. Some of them are QG graders. Q- graders meaning they are experts in tasting coffee. Some of them are trainers. Some of them are have even upskilled now they also have the international certification and they're training all over the place. M
others have started their own establishments, their own rosteries, their own barista schools, you know. So
So they they they've used being baristas as a stepping stone into this large and diverse world of global coffee.

38:02
Yes.
Okay.
And they're doing very well.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. So um in addition to that um we were speaking earlier and you informed me that you're also training um there are also people who come from the region.
Yes. Oh yes.
To train on coffee. Now how did that journey start? How did you tap into that as a market?
Social media.
Okay.
It's just social media. uh at some point now social media things Snapchat started Instagram started and I I just started putting uh marketing material through social media and now it's reaching you know a wide range of people and they just saw it they're like okay I'm here in Rwanda I'm here in Uganda I'm here in Tanzania I'm here wherever

38:49
and I need this ring we even got people from Mauritius
really yeah
and Cameroon evenm Mhm.
Yeah. So they're like okay and it was all through social media. We reach them through social media.
Yeah.
And that's something that continues to date.
Yes.
You have students who come from the region to train in in in how to be barristers of coffee.
Yes. And interestingly and I don't know why most of them uh quite a big number of them is uh is coming from Rhonda.
Randy's are your biggest portion of those
of the region. Yeah.
Yes. Of your original of your regional customers.
Yes.
Very very interesting.
Yeah. So we've had as I've told you people from Maicius, Cameroon, Uganda, Tanzania. Yeah.

39:31
Very nice.
Okay. So where this space Yeah. um we've started our conversation from a time when Kenya didn't really have a coffee culture
and now it's particularly Nairobi and spreading to the city because what has happened uh with the growth of the coffee shop brands you know now now we can um confidently say that we have quite a robust
yes
coffee shop culture you know you you even have major brands you have medium-sized brands you have small brands and others continue to you know, all the way from the Art Cafe, Javas of This World, CJs, and then you have the smaller players, Spring Valley Coffee, um, and other players. And even on the side of roasting, there's been margins on that side. Yeah.

40:21
Yeah, it's it's become quite vibrant.
Yeah, it has become quite vibrant. But where are we going or where could we go, you know, uh what's the potential that we have for this coffee sector? as you see it
the the potential I see we've barely scratched the surface
because Leonard we we are still
tea drinkinkers but uh we from the Gen Z generation now going
down
these guys are not drinking tea
mhm
in fact now they they they take tea as a beverage for old people
so I I see coffee consumption in Kenya increasing to uh serious levels. Yes, just coffee consumption will increase and because coffee consumption is increasing, we'll need more coffee shops.
Yeah, we'll need more baristas. But let me that part for baristas

41:21
um it's also 50/50 because um new trends are coming up, innovations are coming up and you're now getting machines that have high level of automation.
Mhm.
Yeah. So I'm also seeing that affecting the barista career. But in terms of coffee shops,
I'm seeing an increase of it because uh people will they they'll reach a time where coffee I that's what I see. Coffee is going to be the dominant hot beverage that people are drinking here in Kenya. Yeah.
And um with that comes high demand of baristas. But now we have to also check how technology will take that kind of space.
Do you see yourself uh venturing into additional areas of training? uh just like you said that the the foreigners uh that your your students who have moved out of the country uh become Q graders, they become roosters. Is that an avenue that you you would explore

42:16
as as as um as barista pro?
Oh yes. Because the vision I want barista pro to be a a coffee training center where it it doesn't have to be barista skills. It can be any any what's this? Any profession under the under coffee umbrella.
Yes, exactly. It can be a sensory uh or a sensory what? Expert. A sensory coffee expert. It can be a roaster. It can be um what's this? Um just anything under coffee. So
who is just just for client who is a sensory coffee expert? This is a u a professional coffee tester. Okay.
We call them um we we call them creators. We also call them coffee liquorers.
Okay.
Yeah. Because that's an entire profession on its own. And they are the ones who advise buyers like okay I've tested this coffee. This is this great this is this quality. Yeah. And uh yeah, this is now uh what's this categorized as specialty coffee or premium coffee or commercial coffee. Yeah. So they they give you advice in terms of uh the taste of coffee uh in terms of quality

43:34
and and and one would argue that that's a
Kenya is very well placed to do something like that because we already have the coffee buying and selling culture that exists because of the coffee the quality of the coffee we grow. M yeah.
Mhm.
Okay.
Yeah. But but you see now there there are not very many people here in Kenya teaching it because it's Yeah. It's part of the career progression Leonard I'm talking about. Yeah. Like like okay fine we have them but they are already attached to companies. Yeah. So there's so much space for for you know a training institution to just come and decide okay I'll be training uh what's this or certifying people who want to become professional coffee testers.

44:19
Okay.
Yeah.
Let's speak a bit about the plant coffee. Yeah. We have seen um Nairobi based. Yeah. And we were surrounded by mainly the coffee growing areas. Yeah. Mhm.
Um so the traditional I would say let's call them post postc colonial Kenya coffee
growing areas have changed you know uh there's been a lot of real estate development in former large coffee farms
but we've also I think one story that is not told about coffee we also have new and emerging coffee growing areas. Yeah, like uh around Mount Elggon, you know, 10, 15 years ago, there was hardly any coffee there, but now you have a lot of coffee that is growing there. Do you get any do you have any visibility into that? And and what are you seeing happening around that coffee growing from a Kenyan context?

45:14
Okay. I don't have visibility in that area but
I I I love where we are going with that because
and this is my opinion um I think when we are coming somebody just marketed
ner
yes
it's a whole marketing thing and they decided ner is the only area that has good coffee
yeah but for me I feel like it was uh marketed very well now I'm happy that other new places are emerging and people are willing to explore and experience. Yeah. As you've said, western Kenya now, Mount Elgon, there's uh Kital, there's Rango, there's Kip Kelly on Rift Valley producing very good coffees. Eastern um what's this? Uh Eastern Kenya. So right now they imagine areas that are growing coffee and people are willing to buy

46:09 those coffee and they are buying the coffees. So that one is very exciting to see and I think people who are passionate about growing coffee they're also getting motivated with that and they're like oh now guys are now open-minded they're willing to experience uh coffees from other regions and we have now new places starting to grow coffee. So as much as uh coffee um guys had gotten tired a bit and you know changed
now it's back the pricing the last two years the pricing has been great.
Exactly. And it's coming back uh slowly. Yeah.
Yeah.
So, do you see I like the example that you gave, but do you see other Kenyan regions being able to benefit from better branding their coffee and and and packaging the notes, you know, for for for people like you at the front who are selling the coffee?

46:58
Definitely. Definitely. I'll give you an example of um what is was it Kip Kellon? It's in uh Rift Valley.
Yes.
Yeah. They had a project
uh uh like a women grown coffee.
Yes. Yeah.
And the way they did it, they did it so well that they even branded the like they grew the coffee.
Yeah. And they got some funding to now do value addition. Yeah. So they they bought a coffee roasting machine
uh with the funding and uh they had a brand called Zawadi.
Yes.
Yeah. Zawadi uh uh 100% women grown coffee and it was amazing and they were selling it. Yes.
Yeah. they were selling it and some coffee what's this traders were buying it that's a very good example of of that
no I mean this has been a fabulous conversation for me one because coffee is a is a personal area of passion for me I enjoy coffee I enjoy a cup of coffee but also because I see the potential and it is really great to see that this great coffee that we have as a nation and we are blessed with as a nation of Kenya

48:06
it's I I feel that it's very important when you're producing something good and you're also enjoying it as a people. You know, we we move away from this thing that the good things we send out, you know, for export. So, this emergence of a coffee growing culture for for me, one as a professional who runs restaurants and and and things of that nature.
Um, it's great to see the emerging of the coffee shops. It's great to see the multitude of the brands and long may it last. In fact, I even hope to see more creative more creativity around it, smaller shops, you know, in in gas stations so that quality coffee becomes a standard of of people around the nation.
Yeah. And that is also why uh in the barista space because in the coffee chain,

48:53
do you know the barista is the only person who needs to know everything about coffee?
Yes. Yes.
Do you know if you go to let me talk for the Kenyan farmer. If you go to the Kenyan farmer,
they don't know coffee past
after after [Music] some of them even get shocked. This is how coffee looks like when it's roasted. They get shocked and it's their own coffee. They've never seen it in that because for me after growing it and drying it
the same after I've already done whatever I need to do, you know. But you see a barista. We are the ones who have direct contact with the drinking customer because Leonard all of us are doing this work so that people drink coffee. If people are not drinking coffee then we all close shop. We all close shop. Yeah.

49:41
So you can imagine the barista has the direct contact with the consumer who is holding the coffee industry. Yeah. So they'd like the farmers what the what's what's this the consumers uh want. Yes.
And it has helped because
the moment a farmer partnered
with a barista
that farmer has blown up. And again let me give that example.
This is Martin Shabaya.
Yes.
Who partnered with David Muta a young farmer. Yeah. They just did some experiments and then they're like because at that time Martin was the Kenyan barista champion
and they partnered they were like okay let's do some special coffee because guys when we are going for this barista competitions we are going to showcase Kenyan coffee and we have to put our best foot forward. Yeah. And showcase this Kenyan coffee. So, uh, he partnered with this young farmer called David Maguta. Did a special coffee for him to use during the barista competition. And this is the first time an African ever

50:49 made it to the finals of the barista competition.
Yeah. And also after that, the farmer became very popular. They're like, "Wow, that coffee was mind-blowing. Who is this farmer? We need to to get coffee from him." Yeah. And also it was an advantage to the farmer and and I'm giving this story because for the longest time baristas are never put in the in the discussions of coffee.
We are never like people just see these are young people. What do they know? This is high level meetings.
I'm telling you baristas are the they they connect with the customers. So they have uh things to say that can benefit you know uh people in the coffee chain
and and and the competition you're talking about is actually the world barista championship.

51:36
Yes. The world barista championship and that is very important because this kind of competitions number one they showcase the barista profession because until today there are some people who really don't know who a barista is. So when we do this competition and that's why we do them in public spaces.
Yes.
So that people wonder okay what's happening they come to see. So you come to see, oh this is what a barista does. Oh, this is how the machine looks like. Oh, this is how you do an espresso. Yeah. Because we are also trying to educate the public about this uh profession. We are also giving a platform for the baristas to showcase their skills. Yeah. So that you know people can see what this is all about.

52:15
Excellent. Um um Esther, it's been a privilege having you on the African Do podcast. um you are speaking to a very niche segment but a segment that showcases Kenya in a very positive light. So we congratulate you for the work that you've done. I think Barista Pro is now 10 years old. Yeah. So that's a congratulations for that. But I also give you a chance to just talk to the audience and tell them who you are,
where you are, where they can find you, what are your Instagram, what are your social media handles and how they can connect with you should they want to um either take up a course or just learn more about coffee.
Ah, okay. Uh my name is Esther Oteno and uh I run a premier barista school here in Nairobi Westlands called Barista Pro. And uh what Barista Pro does is we offer um barista training courses. So if you need barista skills for whatever reason then we have many courses uh that uh are suitable for you depending on the budget you have the time that you have and the level of skill set that that you have. We also have fun um we call them coffee

53:22 curious sessions for coffee enthusiasts and coffee lovers who uh just need like 2 hours just to learn about coffee. And this one we do them over the weekend and they're just 2 hours. So you can contact us and you can always reach us on our social media handles @ barista proenya all across on Instagram uh on x or formerly Twitter on Facebook on Tik Tok we are barista proenya. So thank you very much.
Excellent ladies and gentlemen that was Esto of Barista Pro Kenya Limited taking us through a journey of Kenyan coffee and Kenyan barista training. Um, and that was a fabulous episode. So, thank you very much, Esther, for for for joining us. And, uh, that brings us to the end of episode 31 of the African Do podcast, and we look forward to seeing you in future episodes. Uh, please uh, feel free to subscribe to our channel on

54:19 YouTube and Spotify, and let's keep having um, conversations that showcase African excellence and Africans executing excellently. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. [Music]