Josiah Stanley — transcript

Chasing Sun

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:06 Greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 50 of the African Do uh podcast. I think at this time it's great to thank you all for joining us. Jubilee is a big it's a big u it's a big number for us and from the days when we started and we have now done 50 episodes. So we're really excited about that. Thank you all for your comments, your interaction with the guests um after as soon as we take the podcasts live. We are really grateful for your participation and we look forward to you continuing this journey with us. Today we're very privileged to have with us a young man who has gone into farming and uh we'll speak in detail about that. name is Josiah Stanley and Josiah runs an entity with the co-founder of an entity called Chasing Son and we'll find out a bit more about Chasing Son, what they do, who they are and how they're impacting the market. So Josiah, welcome

1:03 to the African Do podcast.
Thank you. Uh, thanks for having me. Congratulations on 50 episodes.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
It's going to impress you.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, looking forward.
Good. So Jos, let's get started and and and maybe just understand when I look at you, you're relatively young.
You know, you're a young Kenyan man and yet you are in farming. Not to say that young people should not be in farming, but it's not quite a line that you hear, you know, when people are thinking about what they want to do. So maybe let's just start by understanding Josiah, the person. Who are you?
Yeah. um education wise and how do you find yourself uh where you decided to found an an agricultural entity?

1:49
Okay, good. I think I'd probably start with education cuz that's sort of where the foundation has been laid.
Uh so I'm I say I'm a businessman uh and business has my interest. So when I got into university, I was in uh I studied in um Kgali A Rwanda. I studed international business and trade with a knack for seeing how systems would work, crossber trade, international trade. And at that point, it didn't necessarily have to be a pro, it didn't have to be a particular product or service, but more so the larger scope of of what business looks like at an international level. So by the time I was done or even through my degree, I I had tried various ventures and business was something that was was already enticing. I think when I was in my when I was in my second year, I was running a small um real estate agency.

2:41
So I had been in Kgali for some time and I realized now students are coming in and they sort of need somewhere to stay. Uh so how can we help them maneuver that as first time comers in in in Rwanda. So I was able to found small company uh Dons Estate and the idea was students who attend my school uh when they come in and they they're in student accommodation but they want to move out they can contact me and I can put them in touch with various landlords and and get them get them somewhere to stay. So we did that uh throughout my degree. I think for about two and a half years I was spearheading that day to day and then I realized and that that sort of picked up my mind and even coming back to Kenya it was more so what business can I do with the intent to turn a profit and uh have a positive impact uh in in community. So I'd say at a basis

3:32 uh my line of thinking or my rationale behind even getting into farming is just business having an impact and at the end of it all turning a profit cuz I believe if you if you're running a business that's not turning a profit then you're in charity.
Okay.
And that's not that's not what I was looking for at the time obviously when I'm when I was starting my career.
So I when I came I met up with uh with my co-founder. He had been my friend for several years. uh and we started talking about various models of uh business and what we can what we can pursue. He was doing um he was in events at the time but he also had he had also thought of agriculture and with my mindset again it wasn't so much what exactly are we doing but how can we have an impact in this field. So he he introduced me he told me

4:19 why don't we what do you think we can do in agriculture and we began bouncing off ideas and our initial model in 2022 when we founded Chasing Sun was we wanted to run a deficitdriven uh system um enterprise whereby if if um the market is demanding cucumber or or capsicum we wanted to sort of aggregate and then supply. So our work would then be to speak with the zucchinis and the like and hear and hear what what it is that they require and then on the flip side get farmers to grow these things with the guarantee that we would we would um give them all we would have taken and and supply. So we had approached a big company that was also it would be sort of a middle ground instead of getting into zucchini directly we wanted to supply a huge enterprise can't really remember the name but it's a company that closed a big agricultural entity that were aggregating. So we approached

5:13 them with the idea. It it wasn't really a good blend because it's sort of what they were also doing at the time and then also with the trajectory of their business they weren't keen to pursue to pursue that that interest that that we had.
So that idea that idea flopped and we said okay uh what next? Then we considered livestock. So very simple idea that many many people in the market already do. you get goats, uh you fatten them and sell them off. Uh we thought it was it was that we thought it was that simple. So we started off uh so we got the land in uh got the land in Naasha. We got a piece of land in Naasha um through my co-founder
and we say got you leased. Yeah, we leased it. We leased a [clears throat] piece of land to with my co-founder in Kadong, fenced it and uh next was um to set up the barn and whatever and then bring in the bring in the goats. Then we took a pause and and run the numbers on the operation. Uh did a sort of risk and reward sickness. What's the personnel required in this thing? Are we at a level where we can guarantee because

6:22 again you're looking at it commercially. So if you have buy 100 goats, how are we going about maintaining them? And we realized perhaps the first step is not to buy goats. Probably need to do some more some more some more research and really work through the numbers and see also the technical um capacity that we would require. So I'd say in that process our minds also opened up to hoticulture
and it seemed like a place where there's more structure people who you can work with get the technical knowhow and then scale pretty fast. So we said let's not let's shove the livestock idea and revisit it uh at a later date and look into this horiculture hoticulture side of it. Horticulture again we're looking at it very far ahead. uh we're looking at how our produce can be exported. So you'd be looking at primarily for the EU

7:15 market, we're looking at herbs, how we can be doing rosemary and various things. But then now with I think the the background of how livestock how we envisioned livestock and how it would actually need to go said perhaps it would be good to start locally do a pilot start with a few green houses contract an aronomist see how that goes with the vision of one day one day exporting uh out of the out of the Kenyan market right so that's what we did we sat down with an aronomist uh got to know what the market is like what what are the dos and don'ts uh and on my part uh I now started um sort of taking in the step to sort of run this operation to get a before it was sort of like a 50/50 and we're just trying to understand at a glance but now I sort of got I dug deeper and I took a I took an interest in this thing because it's looking like cuz now I'm done with

8:05 university obviously it's looking like this is the trajectory that I'm on so it would be good if it can if it can be done and done well so that we can we can scale. So we started we did uh three green houses 8 by 40 uh horicultural produce
um 8 by 40 8 by 40 ft uh started with capsicum, cherry tomato and uh English cucumber
and what informed the selection? The selection was purely driven by current market demand demand and price especially we were wary about cherry tomatoes but we ran with it but capsicum and English cucumber was 100% driven from research that we had undertaken in the market sustainable
price not fluctuating too much and then also we were also keen on not sleeping with stock like even if we were to break even at least let's know that stock is not getting spoiled here there's people who who are interested in this produce.

9:02
So we started uh we we constructed went to a nursery. We didn't have we don't do our own nursery. So contracted, got a nursery and then we saw the seeds. That was March 2025.
So you're seeing a journey of learning, a journey of more of research than execution. But then finally 2025 came and we said we need to action. So we started January the whole idea. In March, we found ourselves now we've sewn the seeds waiting to reap a harvest. Uh we've employed someone who is staying now at the farm and we're good. So we have we have a farm manager at that time and we have an aronomist. The farm manager is essentially taking care of the produce following the aronomy program week on week as we anticipate as we anticipate a harvest for those three um products more or less. It's a three month it's a three month window. Yeah, it's a three month cycle. you harvest I think capsicum cherry tomato last the longest nine months so we're waiting to waiting to harvest so we're keen uh waiting uh doing more research obviously

10:05 also figuring out uh oftake uh something we had not factored in is produce is actually in IA market is in is in Nairobi so trying to figure out okay does it make sense at the level we're at now to bring in produce to Nairobi or how do you go about it so I mean picking minds researching seeing what typically happens and then soon enough I think uh July produce is now ready. Uh and how we went about it initially was uh we picked up the produce and loaded it into our car brought it to Nairobi. It was actually in the office. Uh then we started seeing okay how will this thing move? Uh we had some few contacts. We start issuing out start issuing out messages produce is here uh feel free. did market research, got prices and the first week, I think the first week we did, it was mainly cherry, tomatoes and cucumber. Capsicum wasn't ready. Capsicum takes about a month

11:00 longer. Wiped out boda coming into the office. They have their crates loading produce is moving. So I saying okay now it needs to be a bit more sustainable cuz this exercise is is weekly. Uh so bringing produce to the office also it's a bit cumbersome. We need probably need a system that that can work better. So with the off taker that came the various of takers we managed to speak with one and ask him by the way we have three products these are just two but one more is coming would it be worth your while to pick them from the farm this time we're talking about per greenhouse the cherry tomato was yielding 200 kg capsicum was yielding another 300 kg and cucumber was now was also doing about 600 kg so telling just slightly below a ton would it be worth your oil he's like yeah if you give me a small discount then it makes sense And so we did that. So every week we

11:52 know that there's somebody who is coming picking produce and bringing it to Nairobi. Uh and that worked that continued to work well. And we're seeing that this is a system that if scaled can be can be extremely profitable and from there we can even look at export and the likes as we had as we had intended. So at this point we also started realizing that the goal of this is to remain sustainable and profitable which now brought about our internal modeling to see how we can plant to ensure that after this cycle is complete we have another cycle so as to ensure that the people who are coming to the farm uh be it so and so they can continue coming. It will reach a point where we're saying hey by next week don't come.

12:34
Uh and so that's what we did. uh we looked at our growth and we sort of staggered it and said okay if we have capsicum here lasting 5 months and it takes 3 months to grow then on the second month you need to be you need to be constructing again and planting. Now the good thing about uh about produce moving weekly is that we're also beginning to benefit from revenues on a weekly basis that's making the operation sustainable. So by the time, truth be told, by the time we were reaching the second month, we were able to construct uh we started with 8x40, we were able to begin construction of our first 16x40 greenhouse, double the size
uh not out of pocket at all. This was all internally generated from sales. So this is beginning to make sense. It's getting sustainable to us. And so that's what we did. Uh made sure that by the time the first product to end, I think is cucumber. By the time cucumber is ending, the next greenhouse was up and ready. Uh by the time um capsicum is is nearing its end, the next greenhouse is up.

13:34
So So Josiah, first of all, we'll come back to the farm. Yeah.
And get into detail of the farm. But I just want to to uh explore something that has come up in the conversation about you
generationally.
Yeah.
So you go to to to to uni in giggali. So you know African community
but at no time uh when you were telling us your story did you say that uh you thought about being employed
is it that employment was never on the cards for you? Is it something that didn't appeal to you at all
that for you to now go in straight off the bat from university?
Yeah. While in university, you're trying various entrepreneurial ventures and when you come out, the first thing you do is to is is to go straight into entrepreneurship.

14:31
Yeah. I I'd say it's almost it wasn't really a mindset. It's sort of an organic thing
whereby you're not opposed to being employed. Obviously, even previously, I had done several internships at school I think were required.
By the time you're graduating, you need to have at least one year's work experience. So I had also I had also done a few random internships here and there and I wouldn't say I had a bias to it. I was opposed to uh formal employment or that kind of thing, but I'd say it was more of an organic route and then seeking more than I could get uh in employment at the time cuz you're landing and you're looking at the job market that time me in my head I'm thinking that I mean if you've come from Kgali in a good university you know should get

15:20
you should be earning some good money I guess you should be paying me six figures
but then you come And nobody really cares. It's like what's your experience like what have you what have you done? What have you done in the past?
So actually what what happened is you see as we were beginning this as we're beginning chasing sun with my co-founder you see at that time we're doing market research so it's not really it's not really generating any money and it doesn't justify it's not justifying itself or your time. So at that time my co-founder was he was running some businesses he was doing entertainment. uh he managed to actually recruit me to do operations so
in his entertainment business.

15:58
In his entertainment business. So while we are figuring out this thing cuz you see it's also being honest. It's not a full-time job cuz you're doing research, bouncing off ideas. Maybe in a day you're spending 3 to four hours on it. Uh when we were fencing for goats, maybe I'm spending a bit more time, but a large part of it I'm still I'm still free. uh so I was balancing it off with operations for for his company and uh while I'm still here and I'll tell you I think later in the conversation I'll tell you when now that switch happened completely and night became okay chasing sun can now prove itself and it deserves 8 hours of 8 hours
is that something you think is generational
um when I look at it maybe on my for my for my dad uh probably yeah on my dad's side he's he's a businessman also I think also not really obset with uh the product or the service but more so able to turn a profit and that kind of thing. So he's done um before Uber he was heavily in the taxi business um but by profession he's an IT guy so he runs an IT consultancy

17:01
but again being not too fixated on on uh it he was able to then venture into trying taxis and various other basharas to to turn to turn a profit. So I'd say in that aspect even growing up it's something that you're seeing because it's like okay
this guy ideally he knows about computers.
Yeah.
But in the evening he's telling you about oh this car needs to go to the airport to do this and at the same time he also has a knack for mechanics and cars and how the whole automotive thing. So he's telling you exactly what's wrong with this car seeing how it can be done. A few of his friends are even bringing their cars and he's getting them sorted. so sort of fixated on on business and turning a profit and also still

17:45 impacting the people around him. I think is something that I was
Would you say that um would you thus say that your entrepreneurship zeal?
Yeah.
So is inspired by your father? I'd say yeah I'd say partly and then also being exposed to the larger family also like uh various people in the family who are also in into business and then also just research and seeing what you know nylon mask mark Zuckerberg and the rest have been able to do for themselves I'd say it's quite inspiring so I'd say partly generational and then partly just research when you look at what the world has to offer it's like the entrepreneurial journey can really be beneficial something else that I also wouldn't dilute is also school uh at the university.

18:30
Uh they're sort of steering you most of the models that I'm doing uh and the projects that I was doing. I think even my dissertation was a business plan on my on my accommodation business.
So they're sort of steering you uh towards running an enterprise after after your degree is done and then also spending time with like-minded people in in university. You sort of feel like yeah this is this is essentially what's going to happen. And so I'd say even if I got into employment, it would be like at some point it would organically I think it would organically occur that
I like I quite like that and I I'll tell you why I like it. I like it because I think that as a nation and a continent in an African context, I think we would make greater strides if we had more uh

19:18
more
entrepreneurs or business owners than we had employees. And I'll tell you why I I say that.
I say that because you see things that happen in the nation differently from an owner's viewpoint. Yeah,
an owner looks at tax very differently. You know, tax is not just a line item on your pay slip at the end of the month. You know,
I'm sure you are are having and and we'll get to that
and farming and taxes.
Um, but you start to to to to see the price paid for uh the opportunity created by good leadership and the price paid by poor leadership because it impacts you and you feel the pain. So it's it's quite interesting for me.
Um I know your age, so I'm probably a couple of decades older than [laughter] you. And it it is great to see that this

20:17
zeal a lot less people in my generation would take the path that you have taken
straight out of university. We were kind of steered towards um finish, get a good job and start there. and the the what we would earn in that job was not so much an issue earlier on. It was like get in somewhere.
Yeah.
Uh but it's really great to see you guys going and figuring it out out because I think there's great value in the doing.
Yeah. True. True.
Success not withstanding.
True.
Yeah. Yeah. No, 100%.
And so let's come back to the farm now.
Yeah.
So um um and fast forward to present day. Yeah.
How many green houses do you have up?
Yeah. What products are you selling and what's your read on the market?

21:03
Yeah.
So, so right now we have nine units. Nine green houses. That's a mixture of the initial 38x40s but after the 38x40s we completely switched to double the size
uh to obviously have higher yields uh service the market better. One thing is for the products that we are doing which is cherry tomato, colored capsicum and uh English cucumber the demand requires higher volumes. So even right now where we are, we are nowhere near probably just scratching on the surface. Sometimes you even talk to some of you of takers and they're telling you genuinely if you had seven tons, I'd take it.
Uh eight turns, I'm good for it. Uh cuz the market
and when you're saying colored capsule come, it's the the red red, yellow, and green.

21:49
Red and yellow and yellow is what you consider is what we have is what we have. So right now we had nine units. Uh and one actually that we've just started. The ninth one is asparagus.
That's now our most exotic our most exotic product on the farm that has it's a niche market that uh that require it and that we're doing through uh through contractual farming because it's a kind of product which if you have and you're not sure where it's going you can be you can be in a bit of a a
tell us a bit more about that asparagus.
Yeah.
How do you find this how how does that journey look like?
Yeah. So I mean again off the bat uh with uh with the other produce that we have and you're supplying to various people uh and so the question becomes typically a question when you're supplying is can you do uh can you do local cucumber cuz you're doing English can you do local have you guys considered green green capsicum have you considered have you considered doing outdoor onions so you're you're sort of every every time somebody's

22:51 coming to the farm they're bouncing off various things. So, it's up to you to sort of have the knuck and pick something. So, one time when we're doing a supply to one of our clients on Mombasa Road, they said, "Uh, we would be interested in a contractual arrangement." One, and two, above the products that you have, we would be quite keen on asparagus. Is asparagus something that you can do? And I think what picked my mind is that it's not something that I had even eaten before. So, it's like, okay, what's asparagus thing? And what does it look like? So I go to zucchini, I bite it, my mom cooks it for me. Say, okay, let me speak with the aronomist about asking me this thing is quite exotic. Is it complicated? And also when I was at zucchini, I have some friends there who who are there. I'm asking asparagus, what's the demand? What what does it look like? They're

23:39 like, no, not many people farm it. In fact, something that you have it it can move. Said, okay. And I'm looking at the price.
It's like 1,300 shillings per kilo. So I'm like okay let's see let's see there must be account yeah yeah yeah the retail is I mean everywhere between 12500 per kg so I said okay so I spoke with the aronomist asked him is this something that we can do where we are with our climate and everything of this sort and he says 100% it's actually probably going to be easier than other produce
then we run the numbers we said okay it can be interesting to to pilot uh and see what we can do so we do our analysis is compare our soil results with what's required. Uh do we have sufficient water? What is the capacity that we need to increase and we go about it? So install a new greenhouse, increase our water capacity. Uh and so the seeds so now where

24:34
and where do you get seeds for asparagus? Because it's not a mainstream product.
Yeah, it's not it's not in fact that was actually a challenge cuz typically there's a nursery we work with in Nasha where you just call them, you tell them what you're looking for. It's quite straightforward especially with like colored capsicum. uh cucumber, it's not a big deal. Uh but asparagus, as you're saying, we called I called two nursery that we work with. They said no. I called another one, they said no. But there's a farmer in Gong who actually the aronomist referred me to. He said, "I've planted asparagus twice before and this was the lady who had them and she most of the time imports them from Tanzania."

25:10
Mhm.
So I said, "Okay." So she had the contact. Uh we reached out. She said, "Yeah, but for cuz we needed 1,200 seedlings." She said, "You'd actually have to give me time cuz right now I have about 600. So, I'd need to work." Now, she has her own nursery and she's doing it um based of what she learned from importing it.
So, it was it was a challenge uh truthfully and it took it took more than two three calls to actually get it done. While as with the other products, it has it has been straightforward. So, we called her and she was able to do it for us. And then within a month,
they were she had some in the nursery. They're supposed to stay about 3 months and then you plant. So she managed to do that for us and then in January she brought them and I think last week but one we we managed to sew the seeds.

25:57
Now let's talk a bit about yield.
Yeah.
Yeah. Of both your existing products.
Yeah.
I think you touched a bit but let's dig a bit deeper into yields. Yeah. Because they do form. Um
so what yields are you doing? And and when you look at something like asparagus,
Yeah.
in your 16 by 40
40 Yeah.
Um 16 ft by 40 ft greenhouse, which I'm assuming one is now in asparagus. What are you looking to
as asparagus? We're looking at uh 200. So you'll spread it's like a perennial crop. It goes on for years. But how you can stag it? You can cut off the shoots on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. So with that practice, which is what we have in mind, we're looking at about 200 to 250 kgs uh bi-weekly at a bi-weekly at a start. Uh as as we go, we'd obviously expand cuz the target is about half a ton. So if we're able to do this and do

26:53 this, well, we'll replicate with another unit. So for that uh 6 months from now, we'll be expecting about 250 kgs by weekly. So in a month, that's translating to about half a ton, right? Uh so that's asparagus. The other products uh we initially started with an assortment of about one ton uh weekly. So that was colored capsicum um cherries and uh the English uh from the 8x40s. But now with the new structures we would be looking at about anything between 2.5 to 3 t per week. Uh right now I think we're already on the 2 t mark. We're just waiting for we're at the 2 and 1 half t mark. We're just waiting for the new capsicum to come up.
That's green now. per no they are sorted so per per greenhouse you're looking at more or less 800 to a ton weekly some some have more weights obviously so like when I talk about 800 to a ton you're particularly looking at the English cucumber greenhouse cuz the English cucumber well grown properly taken care of yeah talking two pieces are giving you a kg um 300 400 grams one piece so that 16x40 is giving you easily a ton

28:03 though are sorted uh this season for the next 3 months from our farm can expect anything between 2 and 1/2 to 3 ton uh on a weekly basis.
I think your business intrigues me and is quite interesting for me because you're not uh I think you're you're very
I admire the discipline.
Yeah.
Yeah. In the sense that
you're not really uh My next question was going to be around funding.
Yeah. How have you funded this? Yeah.
And how do you continue funding it? Are you growing organically? Yeah. You know, based on the returns that you're making,
how does that genuine funding look like?
Yeah. So, initially the approach was uh out of pocket. So, me and the co-founder, we had another partner who we looped in on board because of technical expertise. Yes.

28:54
In in compar in addition to the aronomies that he had. So we looked him in then us three just funded the project uh on a 50/50 basis
pumped in the cash for the three greenhouse units and the idea was organic organic growth which is actually what uh we succeeded in by the time
right now I think the season of English cucumber and capsicum has come to an end from the first unit but from the profit from the revenue generation of that first unit by August uh we were begin are able to now start expansions and
so when you say season has come to an end that means that you'll have to replant
we've already the seasoned new yeah new seedlings yeah so these ones are these ones are done now the new green houses which is what I'm saying are now coming to take are now coming to take over so these new green houses have organically been funded through the revenues of of this of this initial greenhouse and I'd say that's where the discipline component also comes in

29:54
uh because you're looking at uh you at the back of your mind you know how much you've you've spent right and so you have your three units and initially as much as you're saying organically as partners we're looking at ourselves and say when this thing brings money we have to put something in our pocket surely
but then as you as you approach as you now seeing the money coming in it becomes you're now on a more sustainability journey uh through discipline I'd say uh because at that point you're looking at revenues 300,000 400,000 it gets exciting I'd say especially for something which you started off from the ground
sometimes at the back of your mind you even think you might not even raise one chilling this thing can completely flop.

30:38
Yeah.
So the initial thought is okay we should probably pocket some money here but then uh being looking longterm and having a scale mindset at the back of the mind the responsible and the the right thing to do is to expand the operation. And so that's what we've been able to do.
Okay.
Uh and most farmers are able to do it sometimes just choose not to
which again it really affects the market because what what putting money into our pockets would mean is that as the season is ending as I'm telling you now is the people who are coming to our farm and tell them hold because also the soil it needs to turn. So when the season is done you're now looking at um giving it a month then you start planting again. So essentially the farm in name and language the farm would be quiet for 6

31:25 months. Uh between now and June there'd be nothing going on uh if you choose to put money in your pocket at such an early stage. But so being aggressive on ourselves uh we said no let's let's grow it again. And that's sort of how it has been it has been organic up until up until this point. Obviously with the with the asparagus, we needed to we needed to dig deeper into our pockets because that was not the trajectory we were we were on. It was an added initiative that we that we took on. But for the the three products that we started on and are now continuing to grow in, it has just been organic.
Wow. You know, I like this. I I I have a I have a soft spot for farming because of my what I do. Yeah. My career-wise, I'm in restaurants and hospitality.

32:14
Yeah.
And I think I always tell
Kenyans um that
the average Kenyan is oblivious
Yeah.
of how much food we import.
Extremely oblivious.
Yeah.
Um you you sell some of your produce to to to zucchini.
Yeah.
Who are a multi-unit h fresh produce seller.
Yeah. But when you talk to zucchini, you'd be shocked at what they are flying in to Kenya.
Which sounds crazy for most people, but just go look at what's on the shelves. Yeah.
So, um, this week I was at the corner shop in
Yaya.
Yeah.
And I saw mangoin, you know, mangoin the fruit.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At 3,000 bob a kilo.
I was a bit taken back from that and I was like, where is it? 3,000 chillings. And and Nairobi is such an interesting place because it's so cosmopolitan. Yeah.

33:10
That you're now seeing non-traditional
demand for non-traditional um horicultural and fresh produce products. you know uh I am pleasantly surprised today
that there's even somewhere to get seedlings for asparagus because I for the life of me and I'm in the industry
I wouldn't have thought that there are people growing asparagus
but I think
maybe let's let's let's contextualize the opportunity as you see it
you know
you're now you've got skin in the game you're investing you're scaling you have a scale mentality so you're thinking about growing developing Yeah.
Um there's a lot that we import. Yeah.
Yeah. True.
Every importer is reluctant because I I I know no one

33:59
Yeah.
who would import what he can source locally.
Yeah.
It just doesn't make sense to go through the hustle of importation.
100%.
So what do you see uh at your you you you you mentioned before we started recording that you are um you have leased 10 acres.
Yeah. So, and you're now getting a better understanding of the market as pertains to fresh produce.
So, what do you see? Let's speak a bit about the future. What do you contextualize for us the opportunity?
Yeah.
And maybe tell us how you're looking to to take that
to take that opportunity. Again, I'd say this is in twofold. There's the horicultural bit of it that we've been discussing which is
limited capacity as at now to the 10 acres, but there's also the opportunity of trade uh which I'll touch on. commodity trade and supply of uh farm produce still but at a much larger scale. So for our farm what we're looking at is at least this year is uh

34:55
consistent scaling uh doubling the doubling the greenhouse capacity because even locally uh the demand for cucumber alone uh on a week-on-week basis as a single farmer if you can do 10 ton then you're now a player in the game. you're not yet fulfilling the market but you know a heavy player in the game. So when we're talking about 210 we are still scratching the surface that's uh that's only 20% of the market in one place cuz I'm talking of one of taker that I know who who has backing of up to 10 tons per week. So everything that we have so far and even everything that we do on the 10 acres is uh scratching on the surface. Perhaps the one place where you could scale and meet the meet the market demand is maybe in asparagus. Perhaps if we have maybe six, seven more green houses, then we would be we would be key players there. But on this other front,

35:49 uh you're looking at you're looking at several years ahead, leasing more land, looking at other products that you can do to begin, you know, uh scratching getting some getting some foot in uh in the market. And what we're looking at as as chasing son is eradicating poverty, eradicating food insecurity in in Africa and beyond. And how we do that is through these these consistent steps. So looking further further ahead. It's uh would even include aggregation uh of produce having more farmers doing what we're doing and aggregating that produce and supplying the market in a in a sustainable way because we have a lot of farmers who are seasonal farmers. uh the reliance on rain and that kind of thing also is is an increasing barrier as to why we can't meet the why we can't cover the food insecurity. Um another thing I'd say is not just horiculture. Uh

36:46 looking at how else can we meet the market? People don't just eat vegetables. Uh aqua farming is something that I've really been studying uh recently. How can we tap into that market and then also prepare ourselves for uh export readiness. uh and I say this, it's not so much to export but to increase the standard of our operation. In doing that, you're able to export because when you look at the certification, there's practices that we we need to begin improving on a product traceability. This was farmed on exactly what date uh what are the practices weekly, what are the inputs. There's a lot more recordeping that we typical traditional farmers don't don't practice. So looking at the long-term game and I'd say long-term even just perhaps this year and next year uh getting export ready diversifying our portfolio getting into aquaculture um keen on a catfish fillet seeing I can

37:40 tap into that space uh within this half of the year is sort of the trajectory chasing sun is on with an overarching goal of u of eradicating um uh food insecurity in our market and beyond. uh and I think quickly was I said that through horiculture where we have a limited scope. There's something else I didn't mention uh is crossber trade.
Yeah.
Uh again when you find yourself with three time more opportunities come in. Uh similar uh with um how I started chasing sun wasn't a full-time wasn't a full-time thing. And even when you do the green houses and you've put in the right practices, you find that as much as it's a hands-on job, being honest with yourself is still about four, five hours in a day when you can maneuver cuz you now have the technical knowhow,

38:28 you've employed the right people. So what next? And uh I'd say this is where now chasing sun became a full-time job. Uh because what next for us became uh trade uh commodity trade. Uh friend of mine gave me a call sometime in March and he says uh they they run a tea company and he says uh price of ginger is really fluctuating. Uh we require dried ginger for what we do here and prices seem to just keep skyrocketing. Would it be possible given that you're in the agricultural space to perhaps consider what you can do what you can do um for us? Would it be possible to trade that product for us, source it and supply? And with a knack for solving problems, I began looking at it and looking aggressively at dried ginger. Uh, and I managed to source it at a cheaper price locally, not much cheaper, but slightly cheaper. And I was given an LPO. I was told uh bring a ton of ginger, dried ginger. And the key things

39:30 for it is moisture content and pungency. So I was looking at that getting to know and just really trial and error. I think I took for them four or five samples and all were rejected. The sixth one they accepted it. Uh and we supplied them a tan. He said okay fine bring five. So we went through the same process but now at scale and I say when you have the foundation it becomes just multiplication. You did it one time what did take to do it 5x and we were successful. Uh [clears throat] we took it. Then I realized uh this ginger is actually not locally grown. Uh we importing it. So the prices we're getting locally are not the best.
From where?
We imported right now in Kenya. We're importing it primarily from Tanzania and Ethiopia.

40:14
It's too different. It's completely different types. Uh pency on Ethiopia is a bit higher, but it's severely dirty. So it's also customer preference. When you take in your samples, you'll know whether it will be Tanzania or Ethiopia. So and even from my from my research and being on the ground being in is market various places the Somali were trading I'm seeing that I'm leaning towards the Tanzanian ginger. So I say Tanzania is not so far. Can we actually just go there and see this thing and see how we can run this thing more profitably cuz it's worth the time when you're looking at the numbers. It it it's it's making sense. So I rented a vehicle and I went to Tanzania down to Kilimanjaro and I found the ginger and a better price point. So now the thing became okay now we have the sauce. So when we're supplying it'll be more profitable. So from one company it

41:08 became two to three other large companies who are doing spices in our markets who are doing tea and we now put ourselves there and said hey by the way as chasing son we now have ginger uh because I've been able to identify I've been able to identify the source and so when I speak on chasing sun it is now twofold we have the horicultural enterprise of it and now I'm an active trader of ginger month on month we're doing about 15 tons Now, every month we're bringing in trucks and and we're trading. So, obviously it has its challenges also completely different from horiculture, but it's profitable and it's it's exciting cuz you're you're going to a place it's rural obviously rural Tanzania speaking Swahili that's not even like ours, but you there's an outcome you're seeking. So, even while we there while I was there, I was just there alone. There's something here that

42:00 I want. There's an order that I want to fulfill. Uh it it's exciting. And you buy the ginger dried.
Yeah, you buy it dried. You buy it dried. You load it. Uh
you Yeah, you bite dried. You first clean it. Sometimes it's dirty, has a bit of mud water. Clean it. There's even some impurities, plastics. You completely read that, pack it up, send it into Send it into uh Kenya. and Josiah. [laughter] Yeah, this this is going differently than I thought, but in an interesting way. And I'll tell you why. Because
you first of all, you're you you don't have an ugly background. No.
Yeah.
And you go into planting things for for the sake of trade. So, am I right in saying that you're first and foremost a trader?

42:50
Yeah.
Is that is that the thing that's drawing you to all this?
Yeah. It's it's it's
and then so you now you became a farmer by default but you do some things which are impressive because they they a lot of entrepreneurial ventures fail because these things are not done.
Yeah.
And I think the first one for me is I feel quite strongly that we need to get comfortable with paying talent for things that we don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I've met many farmers who have not done what you're doing from the aronomist side.
Yeah.
You know, [clears throat]
they're like, I know it's planting. I can figure it out. You know, I plant and then I plant and it goes the wrong way.

43:36
But for you to to to to uh take on an aronomist from the very beginning of your venture, that that I think
you you may not see it because you did it. Yeah. But I think a failure to have done it would have made the journey a lot longer than it has been for you.
Yeah. [clears throat]
But let let's let's build on this thing that you're talking about.
Yeah.
You you say you go to Tanzania, there's a lot of ginger there and you source and you supply.
Yeah.
Why do you think that's the case? Why isn't there I mean ginger
Yeah.
is ginger. It grows here in Kenya. Why why is there not sufficient ginger and you say you're sourcing the market sources largely from Ethiopia and Tanzania?

44:23
I don't even what's the answer to that question? Why don't we have sufficient ginger in Kenya?
One is uh knowledge uh of what the broader market has to offer. You see typically if you're growing ginger you're not looking at value addition. You see dried ginger is value addition. You're looking at fresh ginger now in the fresh ginger market that's just you know it's in the kangi market backlands and you're looking at the margins of that it may not be enticing to you as a farmer. Uh and also within that line there's other products that you could explore. Uh so maybe people have decided to venture off they're doing da and other things cuz it's sort of like the same family. It's not it's not widely apart. So I'd say even just leaning towards what the the masses are doing is probably a reason why ginger has been left has been left out of it and even when I'm talking about dried ginger the same happens uh for fresh majority of the ginger consumed here fresh ginger is

45:27 from Tanzania and I think that's just essentially market knowledge not knowing uh what's what is actually required in the market so people are not undertaking sufficient market research one and Then two uh people are not open to exploration. So it's easier to go the mainstream route because it's tried and tested. A lot of these things like even when you look at like uh like when you look at like poultry these days is actually a playbook. Uh the mentality of coming in as somebody who is not a farmer but interested in doing this can almost work because it's like a guide book. You just need to do this this this that and the other contract this guy. You even give a numbers call this guy and your enterprise will will work and that has become a more favorable route uh for people where you just get a guide book and you do what's simple. So like

46:17 boar plant you can or you may or may not control consult an aronomist but you'll get yield. And I'd also like to say that that also greatly contributes to the food insecurity that we face because something that sometimes we don't realize is that just because you're seeing all these farms as you drive out and whatever 10 acres because we don't follow the right practices we have something called rejects.
So a lot of these produce that we grow can't even can't even meet the market. We see it in maze poor practices after harvest drying is wrong and these things and it's a big factor. We we have a lot of waste in our market. So I'd say things like ginger and even several other products why you don't see them being grown is because there's no people have not done the market research on it one and then uh it's not what's commonly done meaning

47:08 that the it's more risk adverse when you're looking at it from from a long-term perspective. you're seeing okay in comparison to onions ginger looks more risky and that's simply on the basis of less people have done ginger you'd actually be surprised it's it would probably be as simple or or even easier for most of these products
how is the ginger that you buy dried
uh sand dried
Oh really?
Yeah sun dried. So you you harvest it, you slice it and then you sand dry it. uh give it about I think you give it about so we're looking at ginger between five and 8% uh moisture content so that would require about uh about a month good drying in the sun if the sun is good you can do it in two weeks but if it's a mixture of sun and rain and all those things then a month is what's is what's sufficient

47:58
okay
and that value addition which is just sun which is available for free what how does it impact the price Um so what
how does the price of dried ginger compare
compare? So so uh dried ginger I think fresh ginger in the market right now we're buying a kilo at about between 100 100 and 120 per kg. This is also from Tanzania. This one is just harvested and brought in in uh in sacks. It's not complicated. Then these these guys in the market pour it out. You buy your kilo. Some goes to Chandarana, whatever, and you buy it. Now, dried ginger, you're looking at maybe three to four times the price. Uh, at wholesale, I don't know people buying it obviously in small quantities, but dried ginger at wholesale, you're looking at anything between, depending on the season, maybe between 5 and 700 per kg.

48:53
Yeah.
Wow. Okay. So, so Josiah, where are we where are we heading? Let's take a crystal ball and look
Yeah.
at Chasing Sun because you seem to be quite nimble. You seem to be quite innovative.
Yeah.
So, what does the next let's say 5 to 10 years look like for Chasing Sun based on what you're seeing?
Yeah.
And because um and Pri before answering that maybe you can tell us a bit about your
crossber experience. How is the efficiency? Yeah.
of dried ginger or any other produce. What do you see? What do you observe? What are your insights from your crossber experiences?
Yeah, I'd say even quickly before I get into that because initially with ginger it wasn't much of a challenge with our first shipment being a tan. So the border was was quick and easy. But what now made me get the full scope of what this trade looks like is when you're bringing in a product that is more known to the market and more wanted in the market and has more eyes.

50:05
So bit of a funny story my co-founder is a storyteller. M so [laughter] when we now when I now ventured and I was now I've taken on the role I'm CEO of Chasing Sun and moving goods when I did this ginger
he's now telling stories with his friends with his peers by the US guys we go to Tanzania bring in ginger and as he's talking someone picks his mind and says you know Maze also comes from Tanzania we have a deficit in the local market I think millers are doing 100,000 tons a day the Zunga group and so on so the market were never able able to meet the the the full demand. So I'm informed some can come from Tanzania. Can you bring? He says, "Yeah, we can."
So he tells me he tells me uh we need to bring uh I need to bring maze and not the quantities you're used to. Uh but we need to do two truckloads uh 28 ts. So that's 56 tons, two trailer loads. Okay, let's see how we can let's see how we can go about it. So we carry out market research that time obviously again I'm very fresh but it's now I now have more pressure because there's an order. So even exploration and everything I don't have much time to do

51:18 it. I sort of need to be able to get it and move it quickly. So the first mistake I made I went to Daris Salam that's that's a town. Uh any maze that's coming there maze is coming there it's not growing there. It's brought in there and then it comes here. So the prices that they quoted are making sense and that was the problem I think. So we explored it. I went there, made an order, came back to Kenya, I sent my logistics guy. The maze didn't come. And uh looking back, we were just dealing with they were just dealing with cornmen in in the in the capital. That's people from there.
So we say, "Okay, that's a heavy hit cuz you're talking about 56 tons." And the agreement was when you deliver you get paid blah blah blah. So we're saying okay this hasn't gone well but there's a bigger learning here that we now know that typically things you need to get them from the rural area similar to ginger and you need we need to carry a bit more due diligence but at the same time this order still exists. So are we

52:25 going to fall forward or how we going to go about it? So already there I'm already experiencing my first my first crossber challenge because I've been conned uh and typically I was just thinking this was Kenya this wouldn't have occurred or even if it occurred you know that you can call which uncle we'll call those guys that track can be found blah blah blah. So we say okay. So we we now explore deeper down in Tanzania and we get a good price. It's making sense. It's more realistic. And so we we pull the ginger and it reach we pull the maze and it reaches the border at the border. Now this is a product of more interest. It comes in more uh
scrutiny.
Yeah, there's more scrutiny on it. Everything of the sort. Uh there's paperwork required. There's cues. You can enter through typically goods enter through Namanga. But the queue in Namanga is ridiculous. Like you can even be there a week waiting for your goods to be cleared. Now I knew this because of Ginger. So there's another route through Kilimanjaro. That's that's favorable.

53:25
Can you cross where?
Taraka border
in Javeta.
Yes. Okay.
Just yes just No. No. A bit above. A bit above. Okay.
To get there you go. It's almost like you're going to Mumbai Mitand. Before you branch off then you go further down before there's a border
through the talk to crew. Okay there.
So we reached there assessing the goods and there's I think there's just a bunch of paperwork like a whole bundle and no formal route to this paperwork. The sentiment is you pay 40,000 this thing is cleared. But in that 40,000 like yes it could actually be 40 or even 100 but when you're asking for the breakdown it's not clear. Yeah. How much is tax? What are the inputs here? How much is transport? Another thing you must note

54:17
those trucks that are brought to the border are not even permitted to cross.
So at the border we are switching tracks. So that's the first activity we take. Uh Kenyan trucks are now loaded so that now we cross. So we are changing tracks. change tracks. You reach there, you still have a lot of paperwork, a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of cash required with no clear with no clear indication of where, what, how much is what. So that's the system or lack thereof. You're given a figure by agents, brokers even there, they just tell you they look for this paperwork, you'll be sour, you'll be cleared. But at the nick of it, me myself, I can't tell you. I know the prerequisites what even the the companies that were taking the maze to require but if if I'm to pinpoint how much each document cost I can't tell you all I know is when I'm leaving the border I'm certified and I have the required documents to to deliver these goods if I'm paying too

55:16 much if I'm paying less than I should I can't pinpoint the figure so that's cross border that's what that's what it looks like
so it sounds like a bit of wild wellressed scenario.
Yeah, there it's just the way most of these informal markets operate in Kenya. It's more about who you know, how fast you can get things done. There's a faster way to do things. There's the way in which you'll be conned. There's like three routes you can take. There's a legitimate way uh with an agent so your goods can be cleared in a short period of time. There's a legitimate way without an agent. You can sleep there for one week. There is a illegitimate way where you cross the border at night. So it's it's up to you really.

55:58
No. No. Josiah, I think this has been a very interesting conversation. One, it's really refreshing for me to see Yeah. you at your age.
Yeah.
You know, actually getting into this space.
Yeah.
And just figuring it out. Yeah. Uh, one of the things we aim to do in the podcast Yeah.
is is to tell a different or create a different narrative. Yes.
Africa and I feel that
and it's it's something that I chastise people of my generation
that I I worry sometimes that we have become excessively cynical. Yeah.
You know, and we are constantly lamenting at all that is wrong around us. You know, it could be better. It could be better. Yeah,
but you have you're giving me a lived experience of um someone who's just getting on with it.

56:55
You know, this is the market we are in. This is these are the cards that we have been dealt. Let's go and figure it out. And stuff is happening. You know, learning that dried ginger and and the whole East African community thing is alive and well. There's lots coming in, but also seeing the gaps
Yeah. Why isn't it happening locally? And I wish you all the very best as you progress on this journey.
I think I'll now give you a chance to just speak about Chasing Sun to the audience. Tell them where you are,
where you can be found. Um I notice your your handles, your websites and so on.
And so if there's there's anyone out there who wants to interact with you,
Yeah.
Um
they can they can get in touch.

57:41
All right. Great. I think quickly you had asked uh what we envision to crystize sort of crystize this I'd say so now you are aware of all the different places we are we are playing in so we have the horicultural ar
we have the trade arm but again in the trade arm you see the gaps that you're not able to benefit greatly from you're not able to benefit greatly from uh high margins because you're in between
yes
so scaling for us right now with value addition on ginger that's fine but looking at looking at looking at maze and where maze actually originates from and are there sizable pieces of land where we can do this ourselves cuz maze again at scale 10 20 30 acres you're not doing much you want to do 50 100 hectares and that kind of thing. So for chasing sun uh with our overarching goal of eradicating food insecurity in the

58:32 [clears throat] market and beyond it's three-fold uh hoticulture increase that operation um looking at uh cereals starting with maze see how we can position ourselves not even in the Kenyan market uh outside the Kenyan market in places where there's greater land offerings and we can do more in a even a more favorable environment um what that would look like. So Zambia have been there uh exploring that so that we can now also own the maze and trade. So three-fold we're looking at uh increased horicultural trade uh increased horicultural uh produce and trade uh for ginger looking at scaling that supplying more people growing that and maybe even one day planting. And then we also have the cereals arms of it. What can we what can we do? What can we do there? Can we be now the source and trade [clears throat] trade at a much larger plate without having to be the middleman in that? And

59:25 then lastly, aqua farming. Uh soon in the market, you'll see
we'll now have catfish. Catfish fillet is something that that we are keen on.
We wish you all the best.
Yeah. So that's that's the large scope all with just the underlying thing of having a positive impact in our market and
and uh reducing the need to import import some of these some of these produce that we that we consume. [clears throat]
Yeah.
So maybe introduce Chasing Sun and where can people find you?
Yes. Uh so Chasing Sun website Chasing Sun. Africa LinkedIn I believe is just Chasing Sun. My personal LinkedIn is uh Josiah Josiah Stanley willing to interact, explore more opportunities within the space and offer support to to those who are also trying within the space. Uh yeah,

1:00:14
excellent.
Yeah,
ladies and gentlemen, that was our Jubilee episode, episode 50 of the African Do podcast featuring a young and vibrant young man who I think espouses what we're after in this podcast. Young Africans or Africans in general executing a Excellent Africans executing excellently. Thank you very much for joining us in this episode and we look forward to having you in the future. [music]