June Gachui — transcript

Performed on Stage. Then She Built a Firm to Protect Every Artist Who Does. June Gachui, JGIP Ep 9

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:01 [Music] good morning ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the African do podcast to our first recording of uh 2025 and uh for this first recording we have a very good friend uh who wears very many hearts uh Madame Jun gashu Jun welcome to the African do podcast thank you the last time I was called Madam was by guys of GA so this is a nice yeah you you the the the the honer of your office ah thank you thank you very much yes uh so June um is first and foremost for me a very old friend but more importantly she wears very many hearts and I think she wears them all very well thank you um first uh should I do the intro or do you want me to do let me do let me take a stab at the intro yeah first she's a um a lawyer uh and an IP lawyer at that and then she's a musician she's an actress she's a radio presenter and all these many hearts sit very well

1:08 in the entrepreneurial space and I think we have a lot to learn from her so June welcome thank you thank you Leonard excellent I think let's get this started um let's start I I don't know if we want to start with your story from the beginning but um because you weren't an entrepreneur at the beginning you first had a full corporate career yes uh when I met you you were working at total yes you a legal council in in in total Kenya and she's a fluent French speaker also and so that that I think so maybe let's just start talk about the law you know and how you you you deviated to IP law specifically because you went to master that and then we'll kick off from and Mar with the rest great so first of all thanks it's an honor to be here and uh tell this part of my story um so yes I studied law as uh as my parents asked me to I lie I am the one who wanted to be a

2:07 lawyer and um really got a great chance to to go to LSC in in London um which was actually it was one of my my first six choices and and they gave me an unconditional offer yeah um law was very different when I was studying it it's not what I had seen on TV so I was very confused while I was in school but God is always good I got out graduated and dad had already said you're coming home to do this Kenya School of Law thing before you decide what else you want to do so just come finish it and then you can make your decisions and I'm glad he did that because I think if it hadn't been for that window I may have taken a different path so I came home did my uh School of Law and started working in various law firms before I eventually got this job at hotel and while I was there I was performing cuz I never stopped performing from school so whether it was singing or acting that

3:00 was was sort of like my stress reliever and it was just nice so I got to start interacting with a different demographic of people not your corporate guys but now your creative industry yeah players and inevitably every week there would be one artist one model one somebody who was offered a contract and they're like but you you're a lawyer look at this you just and I'm like okay and I would look at it with my CED pen no no tell them to change this and it was it came easily to me and I wondered oh this is interesting I would never charge but I would do it and I would ask myself so if I wasn't here does this mean you don't have anyone to go to or it does does it mean you don't have money to pay the people who are out there so I started investigating slowly while I was still at hotel H is this person available is this entertainment lawyer IP lawyer media lawyer is this person does it does

3:55 this person exist yes and quickly found out that there was a bit of a gap in the space and um I mean the great uh friend that I call Philip kson was doing um this kind of work but he would do it prono yes I don't know if you remember there was a there was a case that U nameless song nameless Ana song was involved in and I think there was um somebody in South Africa who had uh sampled it without permission so Philip kson stepped in um as as I have read to uh handle that matter but I said okay so that's Philip kson he's like up here yeah if we can't access Philip kson who who are we going s the middle yeah so I thought okay let me start doing some research and that's what sort of um kicked off my journey within the IP space so I did the jungu thing and I quit my job and my father was like at a pension he end I'm like no pension I can hopefully collect in a few years but let

4:51 me explore by interning in various places to see if this is just a fun weekend hobby or if it's something that's viable so I did do that work I did those hours and I interned at the Kenya copyright board which was an an office within the solicitor generals so I'd go to Sharia house every every day and sit with Dr Marisella om and just have a seat right by her feet literally and started learning from her and then I was at the great mcsk uh for a few months as well trying to understand the music copyright side of things yeah and then after that I was got an opportunity to work with a film and television lawyer in Australia for about six weeks and I met her through rotary which was another weird connection but she was like come if you want to learn I work out of my house come and I thought who works out of their house and then I found she had a whole practice worked on a feature film

5:46 while I was there understood not the film and television side of things while I was there applied to May asked them if they would host me for a couple of months to understand now the corporate IP pattern trademarks so by the time that period of time which was almost a year ended I had touched a little bit of the various sides of Ip enough to know I think I can do this thing now I just need the the academic Theory support to to be able to say okay I know what I'm talking about and I got admitted to George Washington University to do my masters so that's now when everything sort of started or got formalized came back home set up jgp Consultants that was in 2010 yeah so we're turning 15 this year and like the rest yeah can you imagine 15 15 man oh man the other day okay excellent yes so um let's let's you have set very good context but you you straddled two wordss

6:45 in the sense that you're an IP lawyer but you're you're also a performer yes uh and you perform musically but you also act and you also are on radio um and then of course now um stemming from jgp consultancy is jgp events where you have started to curate I know it's been a journey of a few years of curating experiences a set collection of musical different musical experience which I assume are very well covered from the IP front um and uh you're now developing this uh brand assets let's call them that um brand assets of jgp and they're growing and they each have but they're a bit diverse um and one would argue that you're doing very many things I'm doing too much I'm doing too much and and and your dad who I know you had a very close relationship while he here today what do you think you wouldd have to say that's a great question um he would say what you're saying maybe

7:50 that I'm doing too much but I would have an answer for that answer my answer is um like any new business um if you're if you're really thinking about um not being too arrogant you would do what we call a proof of concept okay okay and you would want to know if the thing that you think is amazing is beautiful is magical and everybody should come for and support and give you all their money does it really work yes do the systems behind it really work are you targeting the right people are you pricing your tickets correctly are you paying your people the right amount of money um and I I have all these beautiful ideas but I don't always execute all of them or Implement all of them so I decided um to try and do a proof of concept couple of years of minimum of nine gigs okay nine Productions in a year because I realized when I first started doing these

8:44 Productions it would take us 6 months to do one show I'm like this this is not viable at all so isn't there a better way of doing it that's what triggered this this new jgp events vibe that you're seeing where we have a calendar in January and we're telling you this is what we're going to offer you for the full year sponsor you want to jump on board let's have a conversation but the train is moving and that's the other thing we started to realize that you we would go to sponsors to ask conversation to ask for a conversation about can you give us something in cash or in kind too late and most of them would say now you're coming your gig is in one month we've already made our our plan where's your calendar and i' go see now I'm coming then they're like it's too late so just the way a corporate would have an annual budget and an annual plan for

9:33 their strategy for their year where is ours it shouldn't change just because we're in the entertainment space so can I bring some of that uh learning that I got from the corporate world from being in business myself and bring it to the entertainment space and make decisions sometimes painful ones and say this is the budget this is what we can pay but the gig is happening and I think that's that's the answer I would give that we wanted I wanted to try and test as a result some things will be will fall off because they're not economically viable or they're not really impactful CU for me that's a big thing yeah um in the in the overall journey of creating these experiences I want to be able to look back and go yeah that thing that was a special one that was the one have any fallen off yes uh for this year we've dropped Motown in Nairobi which was our

10:26 oldest property yes um it it this we've done 11 years of Motown in Nairobi so I feel like it can take a pause it can rest and we grow one or two others that I've been curating so be sessions is what has now replaced Motown in Nairobi and it's a smaller audience but it's original music which is something I haven't really done yes I've been doing mostly covers um to to your point about there being diverse properties it's because the audience is just as diverse and the person who started listening to me when I was in my early 20s yes is still my audience member today yes which means we've had to grow and evolve with them together but I also want to attract the 20 year olds today what what do I have to do very intentionally to open a door for that audience to be able to afford a ticket or save up for a ticket yeah or ask their parents for a ticket

11:20 okay but show up for the gig play with younger artists younger musicians who they already absolutely love and by default they get to know aunti June who is now in her 28th year of Performing you know so so it's it's not just a oh we should do a gig there's a lot of thinking and and and sort of brainstorming that goes behind um the creation and the execution of the of the properties so that's what I'm trying to do I think ultimately if we can do six gigs a year that's what I'm aiming for six six is the number cuz that means two months to prepare two months to allow your pocket to rest and miss us enough to go when's the next one but if I'm in your face every month you might also be like okay we saw you two days ago we're all right but also the the the variety of people in the audiences is proof enough that people are hungry for good musical experiences okay yeah so

12:18 um I think I can say quite authoritatively that for you and listening to you talk and the conversations we've had in the past that in your world yeah brand building Trump's profit yes is that a fair comment is such a fair comment as painful as it as painful as it is so you you you build the brand and and you let it gain life yes I dare say that's a very an African thing in the sense that very few African artists or African entrepreneurs have the luxury of building brand yes brand is the ultimate because brand is the experience it's ultimately what people are paying for but very few people have the ability to ride the wave and let's call it what it is lose the money yeah but still put up a good show yeah I can tell you some stories from the restaurant Front about that so how do you pull that off a lot of prayer fasting yeah it's not easy leard I think um I I I present a good

13:25 front to be honest but it is and my my family can tell you my my Med Med family can tell you just how difficult it is I can't tell you how many times the mom says what can we do what can we do do you need help I don't want you being picked up by the police cuz you haven't paid bills which has happened I wouldn't lie about that um and and the the perception that one has money I think is is about presenting a good friend right and we've heard expressions like fake it till you make it that's I'm all about that just like in that WhatApp group we are going I'm I'm the admin of that WhatsApp group I'm not in it I am the admin because I think it can't be this difficult this is the thing I've refused to AC it cannot be this difficult I I saw a video of the one of the first gigs we did at Michael Joseph Center yes we had two parans you know those to lights

14:14 that burn your eyes you can't even see audience that was it and we like we have lights the pride I had because before we never used to have lights at a gig but we'd have like you know a few instruments and what we started with and what we can achieve and create now for me is is is growth but it has taken a decade to get there yeah so how how do I fund the gigs that I I do without corporate sponsorship which is the big question I work my behind off yes and I will MC a gig here there there I will I will get consultancy gigs I will make sure the stuff that I do well that pays me well will be a a running stream of of income of Revenue yeah and revenue so what do I do if I get let's say 100 k for for for example I will divide that 100K into three okay I will take a certain amount put it away for my family and raising them and feeding them and

15:09 taking them to school I will take a bit of money for myself because I also need to liveact and the rest I will put in a fixed deposit account and just say it's gone so I don't have 100K I have 50,000 okay that 50k goes and starts just growing its own grandchildren there for the day I decide H want to do a g now doing a gig I'm not starting with zero I'm starting with something that has already been growing so if I can get five or six of those kind of nice you know meaty corporate gigs in a month then that feeds the kitty to do this CSR work so in Ence you leave off the ecosystem you've built an ecosystem that in that ecosystem there's your IP knowledge as an IP lawyer you're you're an MC I forgot that bit you're an MC you're an actress so whatever pays let's go we put the money aside and because this thing of sitting and expecting people to just fund your your enjoyment

16:09 it's not a thing it's not a thing we should we should start to rely on and I and I'm always as much as I I do ask corporates to support very rarely do I get the support I I ask for and people think ah this one must know everybody I I don't actually and even if I know them that doesn't equal they should give me their money if our if Our Brands aren't aligned I shouldn't be taking their money okay so let's let's let's delve into that world of corporate so there are several reasons but we know there is Corporate spend in the market so there's corporate spend so what is it is it that the dots don't connect is it that I think that's the biggest problem the corporate players don't understand or or where is it because um you sometimes see a clamor to rush and sponsor a a foreign artist yeah or a show with a foreign artist but a fraction of that or even let's say a

17:08 tenth of what they spending to bring in the foreign artist will not be spent I know it's changing for the better fortunately uh over the last two decades and a bit that I've been in this space yeah you're seeing it changing for the better uh but what is your take on it so I think I think a lot of it is individualistic okay that's that's been my observation so um across the different brands and I think like corporate the same people sort of do the do the RS right yes yes yes okay so and I haven't been in that space for a long time so my 150% goes into my little baby that I'm I'm raising like a 15y old but when you have been um in the corporate space and you do the rounds to your tier one tier 2 tier three type companies then you you see the the mchi trend I say oh he's now moved to N I can see yeah and it's not a bad thing but it's also not the best thing what stles

18:09 Innovation doesn't it it does because I do want you to to leave a bit of your your wonderfulness in corporate a yes when you join we should feel your your presence we should feel the fact that you've come in and you've added value but your muda should not continue use up and and overwhelm and take over the brand you've joined yes because then that's a problem right what happens when you leave it just it it would ideally collaps so for me that's been the thing I have observed that is problematic because um there's just the right amount of of ego and the right amount of intelligence and the right amount of I really want to do well yes that has to be just the right portions and it's not always the case so what happens if I've had a long-standing relationship with mchi in yes and he has supported me since album launch till till after 5 years then mudi

19:04 left and it is now Jun Inc and Jun is like who's that babe yes it's not quite what I want to do fair point but then if I was 100% reliant on mud muda Inc and his money what happens to the thing I was building it was too reliant it in fact it's like as soon as you leave the thing I was building drops because I didn't plan to have alternative streams of Revenue so even for sponsors what's the what's the end goal you sponsor to make me self- sustaining you should never sponsor just because so what's the correct amount that allows me to put structures in place and for how long so that then I can have this property live and breathe on its own and if you want to continue because there's brand aligning and it's the same audience your targeting you have a new property or a new product you want to bit then come come we continue working together but it

19:59 should never be without me you can't never interesting and then then one one one specific corporate comes to mind that uh was quite big In classical music and then Jazz and now Golf and and and it might and it might change again depending on okay so that's that's that's that's that's a very good take on that and and hopefully I guess I don't think I I try to look at not to look at these things from a right and wrong perspective and more from the perspective it just is so and I guess it takes people like you who are doing you know to kind of change the narrative and it's good to see it's really exciting for me to see that whole landscape yeah of Life performances festivals um how it's evolving you know ninski has Shin City Soul sa Soul has soulfest as an annual thing and then you have the likes of blankets and wine with mudon and and all this is exting because it is

21:04 when you understand the ecosystem at the back um sound you know instruments stage stage lighting security security which has been a big issue over the last few months this this muscle as a nation is now been flexed and people are now getting and the quality of events is phenomenal you know yes there's always there's going to be drama which I think is life but generally when I look at events when I started do events early in Myer very early in Myer and I look at the quality of the events now and we've really come a long way we have I I tell you what I think the risk is yeah and and I'll say it now and we can watch this episode in like five or 10 years and tell me if I'm right my my concern is big is not always better better okay and there are I have a demographic of audience who audience members who have told me hey by they if you guys are more than 200 I'm not

22:04 coming I can't can't deal I don't be wondering what's happening with my wallet I want to sit I want to be able to enjoy myself and you know that feedback even if it came from four people only I have to listen to it because it means we've all opted to look for 5,000 plus people that means you're going to lose a demographic of people who are let's say 35 to 50 who want to have an experience who have spending power y who can buy a b there and not even stress on top of paying the 5K or 10K you're asking them for all they're asking you for is please don't bring too many other people so what does that make me think the same corporate who might now not give me the 2 million I'm asking for let's say yeah I go and tell them I don't even need your 2 million right now but you have a few clients you might want to tune nicely nicely see you bring them if my

22:58 show is on Saturday come on Friday M the Friday night is yours if it's 100 or 200 people you want to tune bring them we'll do the show for you that's a different type of sponsorship because it will what do I need the money for help me pay for setup help me pay for gear help me pay my artists a good fee that's it because we've done the work your money is not helping me curate a concept yeah come up with the idea choose the music that's already happening what can you do so that your people again the brand alignment I'm talking about so I have to stop thinking just yeah Platinum sponsorship 5 million Shillings they've seen it they've thrown them out they've thrown those proposals out they're not reading them anymore and I probably wouldn't if I sat in some of those offices yeah who are these people who can bank with bank X who can are building properties with whoever

23:53 wherever there are clients to corporates who want to appreciate them Jan is a great month to do that we've closed our financial year you if it wasn't for you our business would not be what it is we just want to say thank you fine buy them a bottle of whiskey buy them I what what are you buying that this person doesn't already have or can't afford they can have an experience that was curated just for them you understand so that also takes care of a market that everyone is now ignoring because we are going to thousands of people and these guys are like what we are not coming you want have money but we're not coming so I think that's the only Rider and we need to be mindful of that because yes they are more we very young nation and I love the ecosystem muscle that you're speaking about it's growing because then fashion designers makeup artists caterist um cater Caterers not Caterers

24:45 Caterers um transport people like Ries Graphics guys photographers videographers the poster people like there's so big an ecosystem that is growing because of this one event yes but there's also an audience that we completely leaving behind the ones who tell email me June I'm like ah you're not on IG they're like what is that I'm not on IG and I'm not on Tik Tok and I'm not going there to find your poster email me or Whatsapp me and tell me what's happening I will send you the money and I'll come ha Sasa you've unpacked some big ticket items and I want to take one of them and we run with it for a few minutes venues uh so there's this there's this whole that I I think the people who have been left behind yes is the venues because um you're talking about the evolution of this ecosystem but I think the one thing that is holding back our industry from real explosion yeah is that on the

25:57 capital investment side mhm yeah we still uh all the things that you have mentioned soulfest Shin city um blanket wine you and what you're doing both big and small and different sizes I think the missing link is uh the venues in the sense that we still have a very big buildup pull down culture yes and extremely expensive very so makes the cost of one event to to make money the break even point is so high sorry what's that what is that phrase break what the break even break I know break I even yeah so the the point at which you you you now transition into profitability with your events still too high because the amount of building yeah so let's speak about the opportunity that is there for venues happily happily um look venues have been an afterthought entertainment at ven have has been a second afterthought so somebody will build a place and go oh yeah it'll be nice we'll throw a cand

27:05 there in the corner the corner yeah yeah and it's always the corner I'm like why why must the corner who put baby in a corner like why why why is that the space you have given us have you seen how fabulous we are yeah so I'm always like oh my God why didn't you call consult people who know sounds when you're building yes before even when it's on that blueprint thing and then we can tell you what this space can can can do I I took a trip to New York once and we went for a MasterCard event that had Cesar performing and had a fireside chat Cesar was just blowing up at the time yeah and it was a warehouse and I was like we're going where I've want my good shoes they're like don't worry man the things they did with this space I was just like I had to keep reminding myself we in a warehouse we're in a warehouse but they were able to transform the

27:56 different Corners the different spaces the Center things were hanging from the metal bars I don't know what it was so dope and so artistic so creative but also they had figured out Acoustics they had figured out sound nothing was that thing we can never stand if you like good sound they had thought about those things when that warehouse and the next two days like the thing was done it was just a space with nothing so if you want to bring in Furniture you can now if if that space is going to turn around a profit for the person who owns it they have to think about the multiple uses it's a multi-purpose space so it can hold a conference it can you can go watch a movie there you can have an art exhibition you can have uh concerts you can have a sort of birthday parties you can do whatever you want the place is not never busy but it's not it doesn't

28:52 look cute it's functional your job is to make it look cute which is much easier than I have to find somebody to hire trussing from stage panels I don't know what cables generator all the things that eat almost 80% of your budget yeah okay so that experience for me is what made me ask myself and I have asked it multiple times why don't we have a space like that and then I'm asking myself if it's not why don't we have the answer is we don't have it because nobody has thought about it then we might be the ones who have to build this space and the venues that have host us and we're extremely grateful for you guys we it's not always ideal for them or for us cuz we come in we eat popcorn in their determent then it's a mess we leave their their space you know in a in a very disrespectful way which is not good also so then they they are less likely to say yes the next time and then

29:48 some don't allow drink some don't allow drinks or food and then guys are like what I can't eat and drink while I'm having the show yes then others you can't dance what do youan how you taking me to our show with lingala music or Roomba and I can't get up and dance you see so if you just look at what a life cycle of one concert is what are the things audience members have started to get used to doing and this is why we take them outside right you take them to a space but then hey Mother Mother Nature has done our thing we can't actually predict now which month we have rain we tried to do an event last year man the place was flooded like it was the crazy rain that was April Showers that went all the way into June last year completely a factor we never thought about so we set up and we're like we're just seeing this dark spot coming on the carpet like is that water

30:39 we're not going to be able to do this show now so we had to cancel reschedule to like 3 weeks later when the weather had so my point is why don't we have a space we could have just picked up that gig and moved to because yes we want a variety of spaces let me be very clear that can give the audience members a different experience an open air festival type concert yes an indoor Auditorium sit down spoke but still I want to be able to have my my nice kawne or my whiskey or my whatever it is even by milkshake while I'm watching the show like a movie theater yeah but then the stages are never the right size you know the audience are sitting like nose bleed section like so there are a lot of things that might need us and when I say us I mean those of us who are concert or event producers to come to and say okay you how much you can you remove and we do it almost like a collective this is

31:31 not an original idea I heard um Abel muta speak about it a few I think maybe two months ago yeah um and he was saying a see we just do this thing then cuz who are we waiting for agreed who are we waiting for to do this for us because maybe somebody may have learned so we now model it after real estate developers so you have a a piece of land instead of building up another 100 apartments that nobody's renting yeah can we have a conversation with you about putting up a space that can then turn around a profit and that we all have shareholding in and almost like a time share of sords right because I now have my calendar you have your calendar let's just slot it in and that means Monday to Monday not like some of the other venues where Tuesday Wednesday Thursday is for churches yeah or corporates and then we we only get Friday Saturday Sunday who said that's the only time for people to enjoy

32:27 entertainment people go for movie Nights on Monday that's actually the day that is the ticket price is the best true so that's perfect for date night we don't have to wait for a weekend so I think there's enough observation learning that we can compile and say this thing doesn't need to take to too much money or too much time yeah so that's my my observation I think we still have to come back to the capital though still has write the chair that's why I'm saying take the model who is that person but what's the the business case for it not just it will make us happy it make our life easier and that's why I reference the space in New York it's not that it wasn't busy so what other things can be done in that space if we most of us our Peak concert time yeah is Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday yeah that is the peak for for for musical events okay me I'll take Monday

33:19 give me Monday okay I'll take Monday and I will do my little bespoke one so Monday is not ever going to be empty I hear you saying that there's a strong case I hear you I think you've you've packaged the business case quite well yeah and I think it's just the holders of capital to appreciate that business case because let me give you an example and disposable Capital because it doesn't stop them from doing the other things and you know they are there yes they're there I I one of the things that I know for me is a big thing because I it used to be part of my early career yeah is and I'm in awe of how it has evolved it's ticket pricing yes you know we could not in the early 2000s we could not do a local artist concert and you could I think the cup was 500 500 Bob yeah if you try and go over 500 Bob you are in you are in trouble you'll get maybe 20 30 guys and a few guys and their far the

34:21 ones who have come to enjoy with them but now I look at the prices and the numbers you know 35 4 five and people are charging and then 20,000 for VIP and and and I say there's a business case here and maybe it's a worthy challenge for for us to take up and maybe I will take up the CH can around that you and also just I I would pry a little bit more into what what does the so the ticket price has gone up but so have taxes MH so I always say I'm very compliant so I'll never charge 35 and take home 35 yes cuz that's the other thing I don't think we speak about enough right my 35 is probably like 28 yes that's what I'm actually using to put back in my kitty so I never do maths and say oh if I get a th000 people that will be 3 five times a th000 it's a lie because 16% CU I have to pay V now on on on ticket on performance really wow looking up is awake so so the the bumping up of

35:29 the ticket price there's a reason behind it it's not just you want to make more money right the other the other part of it then is when you do the maths that way the higher you charge the more the tax but also the more our bills have gone up because again to the the venue conversation the power we now need a minimum of three-phase power if you then have your stage uh lights your your screens your sound and everything that's connected one thing in The Deco can make that whole coll collapse right and these days it's that chandeliers I don't know if you've seen them they're so fancy the minute those things go on their mics their mics are struggling crying no no it's it's insane what those beautiful things can do what does I tell you one of those things has to run on generator you can plug everything else in oh I I think it tells you a bigger thing no I

36:30 think it tells you a bigger thing that someone and you you you you you touched on it a few minutes ago that someone needs to sit with the users yeah yeah and take notes yeah and then design a bespoke location that can accomodate is designed for that and say me 7 days a week I'm going to say I'm open for business and I have this thing yeah yeah I don't worry about that because my line for the sign sound runs like this the back line is plug it in it has a backup of generator the auditorium lights but the stage will always be on powerful you know just because I I I I think we had in actually the episode just before you we had Eugene GOI yes and he is an interior designer and he was explaining to us what interior design is and it's that that's exactly what it is that you understand the needs of the users the artist performing you understand the

37:33 needs of uh the people who are going to the audience you understand the need for return for the investor and you come and take all this information and you design a bespoke space because even your rain thing you know it rains it RS it stages you can design around that yeah you can say we're not the only country we have fabulous weather yeah I mean a lot of countries Global countries would pray for the weather that we have yeah and yet they are able to pull off if you're if you're out of the country in summer lots of outdoor events and festivals and it sometimes it does rain you know Glaston B which is one of the the largest outdoor in fact rain is necessary rain comes you know rain comes and still you go there and the B happen how many decades I think there's a Cas there that the design element design and investment that that marriage between

38:41 the capital and the design to produce a product that now um Tabo charges the whole entertainment space to the next level I think is a very strong and and it will and it will be profitable yes it will be profitable CU I think there's there's so many events now I used to I I talk to my team of musicians a lot and I go there was a time when I just needed one guitarist one drama One keyboard player because there weren't that many gigs now I have four of each instrument minimum wow and and still I can't find the drama I want because this one is on tour this one is going to play at saara this one is I don't know where this one has a studio session this one has another gig there's a regular gig at Gecko there's a which is beautiful w amazing because 20 years ago so the creative economy creative economy is alive we are growing let me tell you and

39:34 we're not waiting for anybody else and I think that's that's been a beautiful thing to observe in my many years in this space we were we were so few that it it was us well like sorry we are busy we have that one gig but it was very unlikely that there would be two or three or four events even on the same weekend let alone on the same night which is happening now so I have I have comments about that and spoken quite openly about them there's a there's a courtesy that we owe ourselves when we are in this space what that I don't want your thing to fail yes if you're supporting me I'm supporting you we don't schedule our thing on the same night yes let's just be honest it's like two people getting married on the same day and they are best friends and I want you on my lineup and I should what are we doing right or even on the same weekend why because we have to be appreciative of the people we're

40:24 targeting if 4K is all you have for the enjoyment this week weekend you're going to make a decision and you're going to go to one person's event and freedom of choice is beautiful but there's also an offense that we have committed because that person would have loved to come for mudis and for Junes you've now made me choose yeah yeah and yet there are 365 days in the year also to right so I think for me I'm very mindful of those things like I check and that's why I'm like let me throw the calendar out then we can have conversation then everyone can either walk around my calendar or I can see so many days and and to your point about weather we all shy away from the the months but they're indoor spaces maybe those ones you can only host 200 people so do your more bespoke events in the rainy season where there's good parking there are umbrellas there's a cover

41:14 walkway the the ceiling above the stage won't collapse yeah because that has happened you know because of heavy rain yes or it's raining so much there's a mabati and we can't hear the sound because the mabati and rain we know it's whole concert by whole we didn't pay for it man you paid for my show you know so anyway we could speak about this for hours but I think the the bottom line is somebody and if you're listening please just small small money somewhere we can we can do wonders with it trust trust us and I'm not alone in this thing whether it's the guys who are doing comedy I think in Abel have a great uh following they filled 6,000 people in one space that tells you the market is is there that's my discovery of 2023 2024 I was a bit blind to the standup comedy scene in in Kenya but man doesn't blow me away and and I mean it's unbelievable how it has evolved yeah and

42:14 you know um um I think Co comedy is great it's medic I think the seed of Comedy has been planted in the right place because nairobians we put up with a lot of forgive my language but we we we can laugh about it and that I think Keeps Us say to some level but that new scene the whole I've been seeing the guys the standup Collective and no it is not but now it's you know now it's I I guess more visible correct if that's the right word because you said so we are over 10 now this is our 11th year wow it's been 11 years this this may since we started because you said so with Ken Json Runo okay and we started at MJC which was 200 and something people and and we've not really grown past 4 500 because of venues not because of people not wanting to come so maybe that's the the thought process and that it can be Niche they are Wednesday night comedy things they Saturday night comedy things weekly by

43:18 the way so you're right it's like a new appreciation of it I think but that it's been around and that people really need this laughter thing yeah that one I think is is a given the medicine of of humor is is definitely necessary in this sou Kenya today so we have tackled the venues and and let's go back to the law okay and let's let's let's let's backtrack a bit and come to IP okay uh maybe just give us an overview of H you have been in the IP space for a long time you have studied it just give us first to set context where are we now where are we now in comparison to where we have come from as a nation so I think and maybe as a nation in the context of the continent okay okay so where are we now we we have bodies um government bodies that have mandates that are um housed in a statute what does that mean there's a law that now says you know copyright is something that is

44:22 protectable uh and that it has provisions and regulations and uh penalties if you don't do certain things and I think that's been that's one thing to State cuz I think sometimes we assume nobody respects IP in Kenya or in Africa or other places in the world but we do have a statute I think that's important to say we have it in the Constitution there's at least two or three Provisions if I'm not wrong in the Constitution that protect or highlight the fact that intellectual property must be protected so IP is usually just seen in two in two categories there's industrial property and then there's copyright industrial property is like how did this come to be what does this liver do what does this uh cable do the sort of tech aspects or engineering aspects um it also covers things like Pharmaceuticals you know the the the science behind which um

45:22 compounds come together and which minerals come together to make drug X or drug y yeah um you also look at trademark you know you think of all the brands we've been talking about jgp itself is a trademark right yes and so when you see it you should be able to affiliate or associate it with whoever is behind it what you feel when you see that product on a shelf or that service is offered to you the experience you have that's covered under trademarks all that is to do with the industry or the trade you know um the the way things look the Aesthetics we have a gazillion shapes of bottles for water or or for oil right each of them have their own original uh IP that is protected with behind like industrial designs or utility models or patterns or geographical indications how do we know Kenyan is Kenyan T the way we know Ethiopian coffee is Ethiopian coffee the

46:16 way we know champagne is from this particular part of of France so all those things are in our statutes here in Kenya and they are pro protected because we also as um ascribe to uh signatory as signatories of treaties that have been negotiated in in countries outside of Kenya in the global correct we don't operate in asyo what you're are supposed to do is keep those principles whole come back and Implement them in a way that suits your your your your local country so there's a there's a country uh what do you call it local Regional and then Global right so copyright now is more what what in the US you would hear them call soft IP because it's music and it's art and it's um software actually because for us software is coding it's the ones and zeros behind code it's it's a traditional and cultural expressions the kondo the kikoi you know the the formula for muratina that has been discussed you

47:15 know in the last few few weeks um so those things that are part of our of our softer more expressive side are covered under uh copyright books you know art photography sculpting uh soap stone because a whole thing in and of itself right so that's that's the Ambit and it's it's wider than that but I'm I'm sort of summarizing so to to to start off we have a foundational uh um statute multiple statutes covering those areas of Ip the second layer is how many of our legal fraternity understand it so that now we can offer the services to those who play Within the space so it's most creatives uh you know innovators uh people who come up with Solutions or new inventors inventors um and and how do we then support them we need to understand what the law says and then we need it to be tested right ni to have nice Clauses but do they actually work that's where the

48:17 Judiciary comes in now so the bench as we like to refer to them we do we have law judges now who can interpret what has happened mudi says June stole from him that thing that mudi thinks June Stole was it stealable in the first place could he even have said it was his for example we don't protect ideas wachi sat here and said I have an idea to do X then he never did anything he never wrote the idea down he never put it down as a as a business plan he never put it in a what we call a tangible format but he maybe spoke about it but then June maybe in another life or somebody else in another parallel universe or existence came up with the exact same idea but did something about it maybe a month later but the fact that June did or registered or protected it gives June better rights than than the theud IDE correct or the thinker of the idea so we say we don't protect ideas in

49:13 IP we protect the expression of that idea in a tangible way okay so the the judge now has to sit and go but the law says this so actually would know you're wrong what does that start to give us Juris Prudence precedent case law because that tests the the law and says it's actually solid if it isn't and we now start to have conflicts and gray areas that's when now laws get amended laws get improved because maybe the theory that was written down is not practical okay so that journey is ongoing in Kenya and I think that's the thing that has grown more it's a copyright tribunal um headed up by one of my my young ones called Liz lenjo yes um who's doing an amazing amazing job and now there's a copyright tribunal where you can take your matters to the copyright tribunal and say you people understand this copyright we're having beef with June solve it for us y so that if the other judges aren't really

50:08 skilled in this area it's okay we have now our own path there's the Tribunal for kipi which handles trademark issues patent issues so now we have subject matter experts sitting in these courts or these tribunals you can still appeal if it absolutely you're not you're not satisfied yes you can still appeal and there's path for that then there's also the people who work in these government offices what is their level of skill you know what is their level of knowledge within the IP space you you expect it to be at the highest level because they're the ones saying yes or no to your registration application if you try and register an application for a new type of mic and they say no you want to believe that they have done the necessary ground work to confirm to you why you can or cannot register the thing you've applied for so I think I think all in all we have made really good

50:59 progress I want to encourage anyone who's out there who are creative don't be afraid of I don't want us to become us level of litigious but we need to feel confident in the system yeah enough to test it let it fail so that we know what's wrong so you know what to improve and it may be a tweak a small tweak that the failure has has highlighted that that is required so would you say we're in a good place we're in a better place in a better place we still have a lot more to to work on in my opinion just because I'll give you music and and and film and content as an example and the tech space the technological advancement how quickly you are able to create content right now on your phone okay and the process that content used to take before to to be created somebody writes a script the script becomes a screenplay the screenplay becomes cast some given

51:56 to a director and a casting director to cast the actors then the actors go into rehearsal and then now we shoot so 6 months to a year to two years later we have our content what's happening now I switch on my phone and in seconds we have content so the script outside the casting director whoever is there is the cast right so we have we don't have in my opinion a clear provision that quickly uh protects and we always say the law plays catchup right it'll C catch up to whatever advancements there are in advancements are super fast super fast so you need language that allows the creation to continue but also be be protected as it continues now we have interpretation so what happened and you look for yeah but this Clause was written in 2001 is it still valid 24 years later there no Tik Tok there's no Tik Tok there wasn't even even nap I think

52:55 Napster was just now we have all these dsps for music you know streaming platforms so I think that's the thing we need to do faster yes you know you need to appreciate the the advancements and this is where legislators you know who sit in Parliament and come up with all these Provisions need to sit with guys of industry and understand because they're not in Industry so we also need to play a part to say by this thing isn't working for us my guy not at the point that it is about to be signed then we we go and complain I I think if we could switch one thing is our active presence and commentary yes as the the bill is being written app let's explain to you why participation yeah yeah yeah earlier not okay okay Jun you know we could talk till morning so as I started Madame Jun group CEO JG consultancy and JG events um always always a pleasure talking to you I think

54:01 you've left me feeling like we should schedule another part two to unpack Dr have another dress but I think the issues that let's let the ones that we have Unleashed today marinate but I'll also give you a chance to just speak to the audience and and speak about what you're doing what's coming in the future and anything you think is relevant to great thank you thank you thanks for having me you're welcome and uh um I love these conversations with you also because they they make me think I I could even do more which is a rare thing yes you can not many people challenge me the way you do so I I'll share one story very quickly I remember when I had a a challenge in my office and I think I posted something on Facebook you called me said hey where June what's happening and I'm like it's over everything he said you don't cry B people will do that

54:49 to you don't cry but I fix the problem and I I I've never forgotten that so thank you for being like a big bro my a m as well welcome so um I would like you to treat yourself to the experiences that we create um I can talk about them for days but I'd like you to allow yourself to enjoy them so if you can follow jgp doevents if you those people who are on IG if you're not you can email us um so that we can also get back to you you can email admin juni.com or you can email me at Jun juni.com and we'll make sure that you get the details you need so that you can treat yourself treat treat your family member treat your spouse Valentine's is coming we have a couple of shows um and also if you need IP work and you're creative um we're always hiring to have people on stage to perform but also if you need legal work done um to support the thing

55:42 that you're creating please call us before you create we like to walk with you as your partner so that you can do the right things from the beginning when you come and say I signed another contract my heart starts cracking from the left and then it's harder to solve the problem so please get into the habit of Consulting with some of these lawyers who can do work for you before the problem becomes too big all right and have a wonderful year yeah so that's Jun gashu P of African excellence in multiple multiple spectrum and ladies and gentlemen thank you very much once again uh for joining us in episode 9 of African do podcast we have a a pipeline of very very interesting guests this year and we're looking forward so subscribe to our YouTube or Spotify Channel or both uh tell a friend share if you found value or interest in what we're doing we look to tell authentic

56:38 African stories of entrepreneurial Journeys current and ongoing thank you very much ladies and gentlemen and have a good 2025 [Music]