Martin Kiarie — transcript

Solvit

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:01 [Music] Greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 21 of the African Do podcast. Today we're very privileged to have a good friend, a fellow board member in one or two things but um one of the people who aptly fit the title serial entrepreneur. Yeah. And you know in this market in this market and it's all its dynamics if you can serial entrepreneur it's a great thing. M so we're going to speak about a whole host of things exits startups building breaking down trauma and a whole host of other things but Martin Kiari currently wearing many hats board member shareholder neons um solve it is another interesting thing um being interactive he successfully exited we'll discuss that so Martin welcome to the thank you Leonard thank you I'm I'm really glad to be here. Excellent. And it's a pleasure to have you. Fantastic. So Martin, let's get straight into it. Yeah. And maybe I

1:08 won't start beginning school ni because let's just go straight into the entrepreneurship. Fantastic. Mhm. And how did you find yourself in entrepreneurship? Were you the guys who knew, you know, was it a wellought out? Was it a wellought out plan? You know, I'm going to make color. I'm going to build businesses. But you have now been entrepreneuring in various businesses. So how did you get in that? So so you know I think the seed was planted by my father Francis Karunguki and you know as I grew up I watched him do many things. There was a time he was doing flower farming and exporting. You know we'd drive in the counter after school. We'd pack roses h in the caner, get in, drive to the airport, come back. Then there was a time he owned a nightclub in Langata. Then he went into logistics um of you know transport of oil for Shell and BP at the time. Yes. So I think that's

2:14 where the seed was planted. Um and then when the seed germinated uh was unfortunately kind of still connected to him but when he passed. Okay. Yeah. So, he committed suicide. I think that was it was 2005 May. Oh, wow. And I remember I was in the my uncle's car and I don't know where we're going. We're going somewhere. And I just remember looking outside and seeing uh you know Choras Street kids and I don't know why it hit me that by the way between me and this guy Atukali you know cuz I was raised by my father. My mom you know left when I was three or rather they separated when I was three. My father was a single parent. Now he's gone. So my whole shelter, my whole, you know, everything that was safe is now gone. And so I was like, hey, so I don't know that thing just, you know, it I'll say my my foreign entrepreneurship had nothing to do with planning or thinking

3:09 or it was just a pure reaction to survival. They need to survive. Okay. because you know I kind of perceived that yes my uncles or whatever my family may support but it's it's going to have a a runway. Yes. And it it won't last forever. So I started uh weirdly I I a guy Martin you was 19. So uh no I was just I just turned 20 and I remember there was a time my dad had tried to sell water. Yes. Uh cuz we have a bohole in Limuru where we grew up. He tried to sell water to Nakumat cuz they didn't have Nakumat water. So he came up with the idea of you know we have this fresh bowl great water. Can you imagine? I walked to Nakumat prestige to the reception and said I want to sell them water. Mhm. And they looked at me like, "Who is this 20-year-old kid who comes to a branch to say he wants to bottle water to you know those you think they're taking seriously but they're laughing? They're laughing

4:16 and see this guy." And then what happened after that was coincidentally um and this is just you know my whole journey is just uh it's God's favor, it's God's grace, you I feel my work is to do not to be entitled to a certain result. Okay. So you know in just summary but so someone there and I can't remember his name but I remember his face um and he was like I think that time there was Elino and whatever so it was dry and he's like you don't sell water. So you have water you have a boho can you plant something? I'm like yeah yeah what do you guys need? Can you plant cabbages? M like yes and he was like okay you go plant cabbages then bring a sample but bring it to Embakasi fresh and juicy who are the I'm like s give me give me some time and I remember I went I hustled you know I wouldn't say where I went just for this podcast but I went to someone just blatantly told them you

5:19 know what you're going to give me money and you're to plant cabbages and they gave me the money then Later they had an old beat up 504 pickup that didn't have really good brakes or whatever. I said I need that pickup to do deliveries and I started doing cabbages. I planted uh you know eventually they they you know grew and I took them to fresh and juicy and they were like perfect. You'll just be bringing every week and then at the same time I remember my dad used to when we used to do back in the day he used to sell at Dori Corner. He used to do so I just drove to Dagori Corner. Mhm. And the mother is over there at the, you know, with your cabbages. With my cabbages. And I said, "I'm the son of so and so. I'm sure you do. You remember him? Does anyone here remember him?" They're like, "Yeah, yeah, you." So the guy has gone me I need to sell. They looked at me and you know that's

6:15 when I realized that look wasn't a look of it was more of a look or or you know dismissal. It was more of a look of let's let's there's a it's like there was a cartel that delivered things there and you're not of that. So they're deciding should we let this guy in or not. I feel that was because later I found out you know you just don't walk to a market they already have their suppliers and whatever but they accepted. So I used to take uh one day of the week I used to go to fresh and juicy another day of the week I'd go to uh the Doretic corner market and that's how I started in entrepreneurship. You know, let me tell you something that you've said. Let me tell you something, a comment that a friend made about business in general. And he says, "One of the things that we don't discuss or even us entrepreneurs are guilty of." Yes. We don't factor in Yeah. the rule

7:08 of luck. Absolutely. In business, you know, everyone when they make it, they want to talk like it was well thought out. And then, you know, we read the books But there's a lack element. Now if that guy you sell water if that guy of cabbages didn't tell you what I give him a job that will see if he's serious. If he's not serious I'll never see him again. Absolutely. But if he actually brings cabbage maybe this guy some so and very likely if it didn't work if that cabbage guy didn't say anything and I you know I went that avenue and nothing came from it. Yeah. that would have been the end of that story you know like or maybe another story would have formed but yeah you're very right so now Kenyans we usually we usually like titling people based on what they do so now you've become Martin the cabbage seller so then what happens then how how do you transition from

8:07 Martin the cabbage seller do you know what's interesting even before that I used to dance I used to for money for money I used to so I was I was in a group for a very short time you know this n you know sural those and cuckoo I don't know you know those guys anyway so but you can't find me in the videos but I was there for a very short time I danced and I remember when I was doing cabbages cuz you know those mama they pay you in 50 bobs you know cuz each cabbage was 50 bob so they they pay you 50 bobs 100 so it's manm in that that transparent. So I used to remember going to the dance class and I am this jeweler you know full of cash and these guys were looking at me like what the hell are you doing like how are you here and anyway so I moved from the now that was right before I went to university when it was survival then um you know my mom you know reached

9:11 out and um kind of brought the opportunity of you know she was in the UK reconnect you know why can't you come and you know you come you stay with me and you know you go to university etc. M. So I remember one of my uncles telling me what you don't have much of an option. Yeah. Yeah. Your Zak is gone. Your choices are limited. Your choices are limited. Even if you don't have a relationship or whatever it is, you don't have an option. Yeah. So I just sat there. I'm like, you know, now, you know, there's no other path I have to take. So that's how I moved from, you know, maybe I'd have been a cabbage millionaire if I had cabbage juice. Yes. You'd have been innovating on that on that value chain. Anyway, but then you pack up the cabbages. I packed up the cabbages and went blue. Is it blue collar or I was thinking what did you study? I studied computing and information

10:07 systems. Okay. But the thing the thing I learned you know the I don't know every phase God has allowed as I told you it's not for me it's not oh it has come to pass for me to realize that what excites me is the journey not the destination. Agreed. So I do the result it's not mine. Yeah. Yeah. It will be what it will be but my only job is to do. So, I remember going to university and being like, I I I decided to make this thing a game. I'm a foreigner, you know. I remember feeling like an international student. The international student fees was ridiculously expensive. So, I'm like, you here I'm going to stretch myself. I really found my confidence in university. Okay. Yeah. Cuz in high school I was a D student by the way. H you know I was you know top from the bottom you know like you now you're now you're now D student and a student I'm literally the singing about you

11:11 but then I realized there's nothing like uh you're not intelligent you're just not motivated. Agreed. Yeah yeah yeah. So in uni I went there I was studying computer information and I said I'm going to prove that I can. That was you know all like at least the cabbages gave me a level of confidence that you can do it. So here I was like can I can I can I beat international league people right? cuz I was, you know, from the first day I was always, you know, I think it was me and one other Kenyan and I think we were two international students and I was always the guy with an accent, you know, I was a guy who wasn't supposed to be there, you know, you get what I mean? So, I'm like, I don't know. I was just like, I'm going to prove that I can. So, I had three jobs. I used to garden over the weekend, write research papers as an assistant for someone. Mhm. Uh I

12:07 used to sell insurance now called center at night. Then I started my first sh in Kenya Exemplar. It was called Exemplar technology before being okay. Yeah. H while I was there. So I used to run Exempl network database etc. Uh but uh you know I had a business partner uh here in Kenya who then was also my business partner for bean. So he'd do the Kenya stuff then like the work that was left over to do cuz I about a 2 hour 3 hour difference I do it at night. So I was never I was I stretched myself. Um and I realized that actually I have a lot more capacity than I think I can. I was full-time studying. I was working more or less two jobs and then a Kenya job and I wasn't dying. So you know I realized not on my confidence at this point I was 21. Wow. 21 and yeah cuz I remember now I started being when I was 22. Okay. Yeah. So you finished? Yeah, I

13:08 finished. Oh, you started bean when you were still in the UK. Well, I was in the UK. And what is bean now? So bean was uh it was basically a for you know it was a and a very quick lessons in in succession where so I fail fast you know. I've always been one to as I said I like the journey. So when a a result is not working, I I I I'm not loyal to the result. I just keep changing. So I remember with Exemplar cuz even when I came back, it was still there. But I already got the sense cuz we started small. My first client at Exemplar was when I used to come for and by the way just to mention the only reason I started businesses while I was in UK Kenyan businesses is cuz I was dating I was dating my my wife now was my Chile and she's here she's yeah she's she's here so I'm like so what's the connection what what so you want you want to make sure you come back you

14:09 don't want to come Yeah. Yes. I have to come back and I have to come back to something, you know. I have to there has to be something that you and we tried. We tried getting her there. It it never worked. So I'm like m so mi is honestly what led me is the second. So survival was the first for business then now was the second for so actually actually I forgotten there was Mari online which was a car classified that one lasted maybe a few months then I closed it then exemplar so exemplar what I realized is it was you know it general digital marketing things but I had my first client was the the car company the hire company I used to hire a car from uh for a few days when I used to come so I went to the guy I'm like I can build for your website etc. I remember I charged him 30k. He only paid 10 then he p right? So I you know the problem with exemplar was and let me

15:07 just put you know anything I do I really commit to it cuz I like the the the process. So we were good at it but I felt we were selling to the a market that didn't value what we were doing your service or your intellect. Yes. And so they we'd be putting a lot of time but getting very little results. So for me, you know, if you're selling oranges and you're selling to a market that's constantly pushing you down, do you stop selling oranges or you just go sell oranges to a bigger market? So that's what I did. So, and then I realized the world needs a box to put you in the I was matching the IT guy of Exemplar, the theme guy who to you know for small companies and it it was good because you know they opened their doors to me but I I felt like you know um I'm not able to tap my true value uh by being here. So the only reason I we started bin or you know not only but one

16:06 of the main reasons you know I decided to pivot to be was can I do the same thing but in a market that values what I'm doing. So I decided I'm going blue chip you're going I'm going blue chip and I'm not going to do anything different. I'm just going to to a different audience. So what did you change the proposition? How did you do that? Because that's a big thing to do. It's not it's a mind shift for you. But how do you actualize? How do you execute that mind shift? So it you know and you know this is why I love when I tell people start young you know please not I don't have children you know I'm living on bare minimum easy so you know and I'm enjoying the process. So that's the the first thing to to highlight there. But how what we did is that uh and and just to to to the the technical idea that inspired remember so there's the there's the vision you have of why you're doing

17:04 it but there's the thing that triggers the inspiration is we were doing general IT and then while I was in camp in uni I remember going to the cafeteria and I saw on the screen uh turn on your Bluetooth for free fries. Mhm. Now, as a student, you never The key word there was free. Free free anything. As a student, you're down. I'm like, turn on your Bluetooth. So, I wash my Bluetooth on my phone. And then I immediately get a notification and I get a coupon and then I go redeem at the counter. I'm like, wo, this is cool. And then at that time, no, now this is about 2K7, you know, there was the IDOS phone. And I don't know if you remember the 3G 3G phone. You know, Kenya was going through this mobile revolution. And I love what you said about timing because I'm realizing even for being it was just at the right time. Perfect timing. So I'm like, wait, with

17:58 the mobile thing that's happening in Kenya, this thing allows transfer of data irrespective of network. Mhm. And no data costs. You mean Bluetooth? Because it's transmitting via Bluetooth. Like this. Okay. So I remember going to the back. I I found where where the screen is. I just moved. Then I looked at the back to see who the supplier is. It was a company called Future Link in Spain at the time. So I Googled them. Then I told my business partner here in Kenya. I'm like, "Hey you guy, there's this thing. I think you see we try." So and so we that's how Bean started. And Bean stood for Bluetooth enabled advertising networks. It was an acronym. All right. It wasn't Mo from cabbage. Yes. Yes. I was wondering. Yeah, but there's a farmer in me there. So, you know, that's how Bean was launched. But remember the goal, yes, there's the technical thing that we're

18:51 introducing that's novel, but the goal is to pivot up, you know, sell to a new audience. So, the first thing we did to launch Bean was sponsor. Now, I remember his name was Bob Dewa at that time. Yes. The late just the other day. Exactly. So we I remember going to their office and I've seen the other sponsors you know and I'll never forget Chris Ananu and Access Kenya when he was the MD then access Kenya was a title sponsor we said even us even then being interactive was there not actually it wasn't being interactive at the time just being um and we're there as a title of sponsor and I remember the sponsorship was about 240k and I think our bank account we had like 250 from exemplar hustles. So we like you just leave her. I remember after we paid we were broke. But then what we tried to do is like okay now let's go to the other sponsors and tell them cuz our

19:50 big idea was we blanketed and gongris with Bluetooth transmitters. So anyone who entered there was going to receive advertisements and coupons from sponsors. So like let's see if we can recover from other sponsors. But that's how we entered and and that's how that was the thing as you asked that was the thing that now put us in your thing that your entry into up to market was to sacrifice 250 G's 240 GS to become a title sponsor for people to see way above your weight above I remember you're operating on confidence and fumes purely I remember I had an oversized suit I don't know those where you're sitting with sponsor I'm sure there's a photo somewhere. I am sure if we go into the archives of concuss I you know probably we should Google and find out but I remember at the you know you know the press conference for sponsors and you know me I remember my suit was a bit oversized cuz

20:51 I'm a 21 was I 22 at that time and now I'm with money I'm there broke but I'm there you're there but I'm and immediately my conversations My first client was I remember he was her home bureau. He used to be the marketing guy at Access Kenya. He gave us audience. Then now him introduces us to the other marketing managers of the other brands. So now all of a sudden you in the audience you're there of the people who you know we didn't really make money or clients that time but what it did is it put us and did guys experience a product? They did. Ah and so we ended up and now I remember Angela who was the marketing manager of Nokia at the time and she's like okay so we were in school together so she but she loved the novel idea of Bluetooth and then she remember she works at Nokia she's like what can this thing do and I told her you know we can actually only target Nokia phones

21:51 cuz in the system you could say only send this message to Nokia phones to other phones send another message. She was like come. I remember she and then what I love she gave us creative freedom and I remember she told us uh she told me one day that Martin it's not the product it's the way you could think to come up with a product is why I asked you to come be my supplier. So she was like how can you even what is in your mind by the time you're thinking of Bluetooth marketing you know and so we did one event with her using Bluetooth to send messages to Nokia phones then she asked me can you do digital marketing I'm like yes I went what is digital marketing I researched I didn't sleep that weekend remember the confidence from bo is still there and then the confidence from um high from university cuz I graduated first class owners and you know I was

22:43 the best in my class and you know I proved that I could. So I I had this innate belief that actually and I also had a really tough childhood. So I just have this belief that um challenge me with things and I I'll figure it out. You know imagine what I like about what you're saying is I started this podcast because there are some things that have disturbed me. Yes. Yeah. In other markets Yeah. guys actually leverage their failure as stepping stones to move forward. Forward. Yes. I say the African entrepreneur is killed by failure. Absolutely. We carry shame. We that thing on our back like a wet blanket and we're just like you know Leonard if I could just touch on that. I've thought about cuz I see it a lot. uh and just let you know you know I told you my dad committed suicide and it was because of that he was a successful entrepreneur and then something happened and then life

23:43 happened and the businesses went and he couldn't he couldn't it became the deepest shame and that's one of the benefits you know peril has its benefits and seeing that you know that's why I said earlier I think the difference between one person going through failure and accepting it and And it's shame is is kind of an entitlement of ownership or ownership of the result. Mhm. Like you feel the result is within your control and it's yours to make. And remember I said earlier for me the result is not mine. And I think that's why it you know but I also I also see another side of it. Yeah. Because I think you are unless you start to change them. Yes. You're creatures of the market you find yourself in Kenya. Marilyn Camuru who the first guest on this podcast there's something she keeps on repeating to me. She says listen you know Kenya is an overcorporatized market and what she means by that is in Kenya

24:52 you earn your stripes by being in corporate. Correct. So the market at large including that some of the people who are giving you work yes many of them yes they intellectually they're like this guy is an entrepreneur because he can't enter corporate yes you get and when you're young and because at you you know the car or the driver yeah I was watching another podcast um founders battlefield and Pauline Maroy spoke about it and she said that you know when She left corporate because hers was a leaving that was not planned. Yes, she was lost. Who am I? You know me, I've been I've been director this and there's a lot of that. So I think entrepreneurship is a different story. Absolutely. And you you capture that. So you you've brought out a couple of things that I really like and I want us to capture. One is that start young. Yes. Two is fail fast quickly. Yeah. You just fail and start

25:52 again and don't carry the shame of the failure. Move on. Yes, even you can be a good guy. The failure is the lesson. You can be a good guy who fails. The failure is not a definition of you. It's a business idea that you had that didn't work. Exactly. The third one which we talked about is luck. You know this timing you can be off. Yes. And when I go talk to um you're invited, I'm sure the same for you entrepreneurship talks and I tell them guys I don't want you to feel like I'm standing here in front of you to tell you how. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No one can you might you might do exactly what I said wrong. What made me fail and you succeed exponentially. Correct. But just do. Correct. Do and get comfortable with. You've said it. In fact, that's the biggest barrier in I think all entrepreneurship. It's just the doing. And even when I think of

26:47 wrong timing cuz let me tell with Bluetooth marketing, we were wrong timing. We were way too early. It was way too novel to be widespread. Sports Grill Blanco Sports Grill was way ahead of the game. So you start but then you can't be now so loyal and say no it must work. Who said? But when you when you have your ear on the ground and I remember I used to have a philosophy if we've pitched something three times and no one has bought it we moving and not moving at it to sell to other people we changing what we're doing and that's why like being started as Bluetooth but of course it didn't so Angela we were at Angela Angela has told you do you do digital marketing you do digital marketing so you now what do you go and do I googled what is digital marketing I studied Facebook that time they used to have poking Facebook p I studied side and I realized okay now this what is yes

27:40 and remember for me one of my gifts and maybe this is an answer to why I'm kind of comfortable moving from industry to industry is because I think industry specific things are skills they're not gifts right skills are things you learn you can teach yourself now gifts are things like discernment you know if you have a discerning mind i your ability to connect dots you can take that to any industry right so for me I I lean more on my gifts than on my skills. Yeah. So skills can also be bought and bought acquired you know you can those are things that and then especially in this day and age it's everywhere. So I have it or YouTube has it or someone else has it right? So when she asked and then we did the pitch and we won the pitch for Nokia. So we became their agency of record. Okay. I was like aha. So now remember the goal enter a new market. It

28:34 has been achieved. Okay. I've moved from current guy to Nokia. Yes. Now you're a Nokia guy. I'm a I'm a Nokia client and then um now we started getting into the the the space of where you get the talent. They're all over the place. They were all over the place. Yeah. And remember digital marketing at that point was new. Yes. Like it was so new and novel. No one really knew. But you know and this is where I guess there's confidence leadership because you know I've taken my time to digest what it means and how it's valuable to a customer. It's the same thing I'm training the team. You know you know there's another thing there's another thing which you should not lose. Yes. You were not asking for permission. Oh okay. Yeah. There are people ask for permission. No, you know, like for example, you know, um most people wouldn't go the route that you had gone. Yeah. They would have been like, "Oh, do

29:30 you know someone who runs an agency? Can I talk to them so I find out how an agency?" But you you started and and so there's that, you know, and I encourage a lot of young people who are you asking for permission? Absolutely. You know, because we also it encourages a culture of gatekeeping. Absolutely. Which is very rife indeed. Then it just encourages a copy paste environment you know you know just by what you've said I've realized there's something I've just realized because I move in industry you know you can only the the biggest differentiation between one company and another irrespective of them being the same industry is the founder cuz the founders ideas philosophies cultures are what make one company different from the other pricing their customer service everything is different based on its intended purpose based on it its vision

30:20 holder, right? So now if you go and start talking to other people, what are you doing? You know, you're just copy pasting what already exists. So you have just many empress shops and entrenching and entrenching the culture of gatekeeping because you then have guys who are like in here. Yeah. Yeah. It's not for you. I see what you're saying. Yeah. So that's that's what I talk about asking for permission. I was like, listen, don't look for me to validate because sometimes you're you're pioneering and then if you're pioneering, there's no benchmarking. By the way, I think this government benchmarking is nonsense. Yes. You know, which has been probably the single most revolutionary thing for the Kenyan economy benchmark with no one. Now to clean streets, you're going to Singapore. You just clean and then as you clean, you'll start figuring out

31:11 actually here we can't use this kind of brush or we can't use this kind of just do. You know that to me is the biggest message that probably should come out of this thing. African do. African Africans can do. Yes. Yes. You don't need permission. And then I always find that people are forever researching the business plan. And right what is a business plan? A business plan is doing the business. There's no such thing as a business plan because remember what I said about entitlement to a result. A business plan is purely you instilling and confirming to your fears. If I control these variables, I'll get the result I want. No, it's not a case. You'll do the biggest business plan and fail. Oh yeah. And yet uh we'll come maybe it's now time because you're so let's talk funding because now you become a guy you're you're a you're a big guy you got

32:07 Nokia as a client I'm sure payroll has expanded you have a team so how was the funding journey because you you have been largely in a services uh industry and the difference between services and product is But it's you you know you are the service and the the the you're selling your intellect your IP but how was your funding journey and what's your relation been with local funding institutions mechanisms and all that. So you know Leonard I'm sure you know I have a contrarian view I know I know on funding. So me I'm very against funding unless it's nec I think the best investor in your business is your customer everything else is uh it's ego you know it's ego that is seeking for the money right so I I can say like for being um the initial funding um for even buying the equipment was the mother of my business partner you know we we just went and pleaded and then gave her

33:18 stick. She gave us some money and we gave her equity. Um and then we raised whatever we could from our pockets and then we we sucked exemplar the other hustle dry. So it eventually died cuz it was you know sucked right. So, you know, we just pulled what we could. Um, that was was why we didn't have overexorbitant dreams or visions. And I think that's what allowed us to pivot to new things easier because imagine if you've taken people's money for a specific idea, you know, you you run with that idea for as long as you can, even when you shouldn't, right? So, so I I think it's let me let me defend myself why why why we have contrarian views. I'll tell you where I'm coming from. First of all, I align with However, that was then. Right now, I have a different mindset. Excellent. But, but my argument has always been, yeah, man, you know too much. Yeah. You know too much to be

34:14 small. And we live in a place that we don't own. Yeah. Surrounded by narratives that we don't control. It's true. Now, if those that know better don't do better, then what are we saying? You're very right. You're very right. You're very right. And and particularly this for me has become more of an issue when I became a father. Yes. Because I was like if any of my toys decide to become an entrepreneur. Yes. Their journey has to be easier than mine. Not easy but easier than mine. Yes. You have to have laid a new foundation. You have to be able to you know here in in a market sometimes you just know something. You know Dan who we met of SE books Dan he he he was telling us the other day how he has got to job imagine you know how to do something you know how to do it well you're walking into banks you need some cash and not all of us have the same industry these services

35:13 these products so if you're fortunate enough and your gift is that you're in the services industry your capital requirements are Uh low. Yeah. Like now me, I'm in hospitality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you have to jenga. You can't have Jenga if it's hotel and you can't sell one dish until everything is up and running. And if a guy comes and he finds the restaurant empty, he still expects the same service as if it's full. No. So so you know you know why I I hear you. But let let me say I I really feel constraints breed creativity. Yes. Like when you're really constrained, you will find a creative way to get the goal achieved. Right. Um but I feel like more often than not, especially our market, our market needs companies in my opinion that run in a way to fit the expectations of the market. What is this market that you know do we need hyper markets or do we need

36:26 many smaller you know so I feel like we need well-run businesses and let me let me let first of all they 100% we're with you yes my argument is this yes my argument is that for me it's not so much about scale. Yeah. But it's about alignment with the money. Absolutely. Because that's your that's the thing that I knew, you know, like what if I get guys who then start changing the so do you know the questions to ask of the people who you are seeking to fund you so that you have alignment and you say listen do you know where I'm going? Yes. Here I'm going here. Yes. You can you can you can you can you cope with coming with me on this journey? Yeah. And and you know as I had told you earlier you know I really think you've been brought in my life at the right time by God. God has put you in my life at this time because you know I I have believed in

37:23 just you know run a good ship run within your costs. Um run profitably run sustainably. Um and you know that has run for some time but I'm in a phase where you know you know and I think business is a different rat race but it's still a rat race but you know where my first foray my first half of business was really based on my own fears it was sponsored by my fears am I enough will I be enough you know can I achieve it will I survive and all that so Of course it comes with it because of that inherent sponsorship you know it comes with its limitations you don't want to take risk you don't want to take other people's money you know what you get but now I'm in a space where my entrepreneurship journey has been sponsored by what am I capable of right you know uh what can I achieve if I act out of the love for the gifts God gave me how can I scale that so right

38:25 now this convert that's why I said my mindset right now is a bit different and I think yes I've I've I've moved away from thinking about things as right or wrong. Yes. I just think it's just what it is. It is. It is like when you think about so we are here now. Yes. These are the opportunities that are in the market. Yes. Uh we are living in an age where people are talking about Africa. Africans are talking about Africa in a way that I haven't had before in my lifetime, you know. And I'm like, what are we going to do about that? Yes, you know, age old questions about narratives have been questioned finally. You know, they were never questioned. You know, the whole thing like I like I like what someone says, you know, sometimes and and you find this a lot with with a lot of ordinary older generation Kenyans where they box guys. Yes. You know, they

39:17 they tell you I have uncles and relatives who tell me, "Oh, that business is done very well by Indians." Yeah. Oh, you know that you do that very well and this I'm like what is it? What are you saying? No, no, no, no, no. So those narratives I get or you need expatriate talent and and I've lived abroad and I've met very sharp Europeans. I've also met European fools, you know. Yes. And every room you enter, you realize I'm like clever guys in respective even those tribal groups that are told I've met very sharp ones. I've met guys tool in the shed. I get what you're saying. So I'm like let's just go and do. And you know that's what I like about this podcast. this is why I accepted you know I'm I'm I'm typically usually quiet but then because that thing you've said that the fact that you know historically our narratives were taken away from us true and that's why if you

40:20 look at China they have centuries worth you know I went to Alibaba business school and one of the things that stood out I met one of our lecturers h told us he has about like how many decades or even centuries worth of family history like he can go back so like five six generations of his own family and he knows all the narratives and the story written documented and no wonder they're such a powerful economy right so I realize for us because our narratives you know were were erased and that's why I love this podcast and others because our narratives are now being documented in a way that cannot be erased so two three four generations down there'll be something to refer to. Yes. So there's a map there's something I shared on my Instagram yesterday and it was looking at a billion dollar companies around the world and where they are geographically

41:16 and unfortunately the continent is still dark. It was only South Africa and I think Egypt that that was yeah has a few. The rest is everywhere else. Yet this is a continent that has all the raw material, all the great talent, everything. So, I hear you and I love that you're on the avenue of solving that future by documenting our narratives. Let me bring us back because we're now going. So, being you you you become a digital agency. Yes. But you start to Yeah. like entrepreneurs, you know. The other thing we don't talk about is you either chalker or boss you. You're a creature of the journey. Yes. So the journey ends and you now become a thing. So your dayto-day routine it's pitch loose or and then onwards to the next pitch get lose and then service client and that what got boring for you or what happened? Oh coincidentally it's it's

42:18 the opposite. Mhm. You know let me use an analogy. You know Moses was given the vision to set the Israelites free. Right. But he didn't see them to the promised land. Yes, Joshua. That was his job, right? So, I felt like Moses, you know, I felt like I've taken this thing as far as I can take it. Yeah. And um I think it is uh you know, I don't know. It just I told him that gift of discernment. It's like I could tell this business has reached the limit of my leadership in it. Yes. Yeah. like there's the only way it can reach its promised land is if someone with a different level of skill set or networks or something. a different leader, a Joshua takes it. Right. Well, that's what I like about that is one the recognition of that as a thing. You know, not not many people we are like we say in Kenya, you take an identity. Yes. You either you're either the business or your corporate identity, you know.

43:30 CEO of this company. Yeah. So um and so you you've successfully exited being interactive correct and that in in and of itself is an interesting conversation in a Kenyan context because not many people think they can you know and one of the things we are after is to have people see themselves. Yeah. Absolutely. And seeing themselves through people that look like them you know are from where they are from. And so there are many people out there who may have their entrepreneurial businesses that they're stuck with, you know, and they feel for whatever reason be boredom, it could be fatigue, but you're stuck, but you're stuck and you're just in this thing, but you're slogging away. So maybe in just a summarized format just walk us through your mental journey of the decision and then the execution of that decision till the exit. Yeah, that's a very good question. M

44:30 yeah and uh it's made me pause a bit. Uh you can tell I don't I rarely pause. I usually just have I just go off the cuff. But you know to be honest it didn't it didn't go as well rehearsed or calculated as it may seem right. As it sounds right it was there was a lot of fear. Am I making the right decision? What's wrong with me? Can't I just fix myself? Can I just not get excited again or whatever it is? So there was a lot of um I read so many books. I I read a book called The Dip by Seth Godin to help me like when is it right to jump off. Yes. Um or when is it right to stay and whatever. I had to unlearn many adages of you know you never quit you stay at it and you know the suffering person the the harder and the better you suffer the more entrepreneurial you are. M so you know I went through a lot of but the the the journey was kind of triggered and inspired by another peril in my life. So

45:33 you know I lost my baby sister um and then my mother in a very short period of time and you know as I was dealing with should I leave this business should I pivot should I do whatever you know I I could already feel like I've reached my limit then this happens then you know the thing that dawned on me is cuz you know my sister passed you know similar suicide issue and my mother was out of cancer So, you know, my sister had some, you know, mental challenges. Yes. Uh or mental health challenges, not mental challenges. But so I I tell my I asked myself like she surely would have wanted to live a full unlimited life, but she couldn't. Her brain wouldn't let her. My mother would have wanted to live a full, you know, life, but her health wouldn't let her. How dare I let my fears limit me? Right? So that pivot that just it's the trigger that now made me ready to

46:34 make that decision. That's what now told me you know what don't you know if you feel you've reached the end of this journey don't let your fear stop you. Nice you know just just move. What I like about that and maybe I'll bring in a conversation that we had last week or a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. Is how when you decide Yes. You know, I I wish more guys could know that. You know, if if you want to exit your business, imagine just put it out there. You don't know who's admiring you. You don't know who's just go any room you can get into. Hey, by the way, I'm selling. Yeah. You know, that guy, you know, and that's exactly what happens. Once I made the decision, then for me, once I'm I make a decision, I'm responsible for the outcome I want. Yes. You know, I I don't it's not up to anyone else. M so let me tell you anyone who could listen and everywhere I was

47:28 like yeah this is what this is what I realign my life to that what I've decided and coincidentally you know I bumped into the right I bumped into Joshua yes and Joshua took it yes excellent let's leave that I want us to touch on two quick things one is you're an investor in other businesses including Nellons the moving company. So maybe you can talk us quickly about that. How are you a startup investor? Are you just a fun? So what's the thinking behind that? Well, you know, you're saying words that make me sound like I'm rich. I'm on them. No, no, no. I'm just you. So, um, you know, for for let okay, let me put it this way, the statement of intent. So the first 15 years of my life as a digital agency entrepreneur of my entrepreneurship journey cuz the others were small but the through my journey with BIN my main job was to show people the

48:40 opportunity you know I I would show them that look this is what's possible in the market this is how you can transform your business this is what you can but then the thing that kept frustrating me is you're telling people a lot of but they don't do it right they don't believe in it but also They don't think you you're worth listening to. You know, who are you? You're a young guy with a digital agency telling me how you should transform my business. Why should I care? So, with the same story of entering the right room, I said why don't I become the disruption I feel the market needs instead of telling people about it. Why don't I do right? So, that's my for right now. Okay. So, you know, the the things you've mentioned are an act of doing. Okay. So, I have this belief that I can see what the market needs um as opposed to what it has. And instead of telling people

49:39 what it needs, you know what? I'll get the respect. You know what I like about you know what I like about that doing journey? There's a flip side to that doing journey. Yeah. And I have become almost obsessive Yeah. about the power of having a seat at the table. Exactly. And as you as you've opted to be a doer, you're sitting at multiple tables. Yes. And what you see no what you see about multiple things by sitting at at those table. Yeah. Like we are in a catering business together. You start see this how these things happen here. Exactly. there moving people and offices then you're like I see other things here and dynamics and all that then now when I talk to people about how they can disrupt their businesses I'm talking from a point of doing not advising I'm not the consultant I'm the disruptor right so so I'm at this I love what you said a seat at the table so what what

50:43 seems to be the story of my entrepreneurial journey is I keep get I keep pushing to get a better seat or a seat at a better table. Yeah. Yeah. But now let's spend the last 10 minutes we have talking about solve it. Yes. Let's come to solve it. I just first of all let's just start because solve it is not it's one of those things. The other day we're having a conversation about boring businesses and how they they are brilliant. You know things that guys are not looking for. They don't sound sexy but they are just cash. What is solit? Yeah. So, so solve it is our vision is to be the most dependable asset inspection service in Africa. Right. Okay. And it's a very big vision. It's scary but remember I'm on a journey of seeing what am I capable of. Yes. So, you know we we started with an asset class that has a lot of problems. uh and that's vehicles and we started in spaces where the problems exist most

51:51 which is where there's a financial relationship with that vehicle. Yes. So what solve it is you know we're a vehicle valuation company for the right now for the you know cuz that's our core service right now but we're going to scale right and it's so interesting. This is something that's done every year. Yes. For every car that's comprehensively insured every car that has a loan attached to it. It has to undergo evaluation. But the problems in that process, you know, there's something I believe in transformation of ind of value chains is that if it ends wrong, it started wrong. Yes. So don't just fix the symptoms, go to the start. And what we realized the amount of manipulation in the valuation process led to the insurance company not having a credible report when they underwriting this car or the bank when they are financing this car and if it starts wrong there recovery of the loan will be

52:48 bad claim processing will be bad. So we were like okay why can't we fix it and we realized you know if we just give people a better experience of the inspection experience and there what we did is that we just created a network of inspectors all over the country cuz we realized people weren't doing it cuz it was inconveniencing it was they had to drive to an assessment center and what so we just created we uberized the model so the inspector comes to you wherever you are at your time and convenience etc. So we realized customers were willing to get the inspection. Then we realized okay now we have to fix for fraud. So we created a proprietary system that is manipulation proof. So what it gives people who receive our reports the confidence that this report is a true representation. So that way it's I know it sounds boring but you know whenever an insurance

53:40 company or a bank or a micro finance or a circle receive this report you know they can process the financial relation whether it's pre underw writing or credit with sure confidence that this thing is a true representation of what I'm taking a relationship. So that's that's solve it. So the banks and the insurance must be jumping at you. Yes, they are. But uh what's interesting is uh I believe businesses like uh businesses habituh. So even if you have a better product, you'd assume everyone would jump at it. But actually habits have been formed. And it takes time for those habits. No matter how better your service is. Yes. It takes time for people to unlearn what they used to and get news used to this new habit. Yeah. So, you know, we you know, they're used to certain brands and you know, certain ways of doing things and sometimes it's by it's it's it's intended, you know, to

54:46 be done a certain way. So, it takes time. But uh you know everyone is excited about the the the the product and the solution but it's taking time for the market to adore. But you know I was looking at Safariccom's uh numbers that they released recently and it gives me confidence cuz I did an average calculation. Safariccom since they started has grown at an average 10.7% every year. Mhm. Despite how great their service was, right? So it's okay you know. Yeah. Yeah. We you know it will take time but we will get there. So your your ambitions are Africa wide. It's we actually we launched in Uganda last year. Excellent. And uh yeah we're looking to to other so I'm so excited to see how far how far can this go. Yeah. I'll keep I'll keep at it. First of all kudos to you. Thank you. I love the fact that you've not been afraid to try. You continue to try. I like the fact that

55:42 you're not asking for permissioning. continue to do this thing. So, all the best journey, however long it will take you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm patient. Keep sharing your knowledge. Keep sharing your lessons. Thank you very much for your authenticity and genuiness, which I I think is something that we need to be open about. the more of us that can be out there talking about what we're doing and how we doing and breaking these barriers, these borders that were built for us and then now we can't cross them unless we have visas. H I think commerce is the answer, you know, and we can put money in people's pocket and solves many other problems. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just give guys cash guys. Give guys cash in your pocket, your staff, your customers. Fantastic. build success. So, thank you very much, Martin. Our hour has run. I want to end on something small, but it's

56:43 not for it's for them. No, no, go ahead, please. I just want to say that, you know, of course, there's a bias to doing. I think the message is clear, but I wanted to outline that, you know, everything I've said is my point of view and it's just something for you to consider. It's not the truth. It's just something to try on. And uh if you've got something from it, try it on and see if it fits. Uh but you know, just don't don't lock that. It's not law. It's just something to consider. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean someone summarized someone told me that in my in my um you talked about discernment earlier and someone told me early in my entrepreneurial career. Yes. And he said, "Lonard, get used to listening to many people and cherry picking what you like." Exactly. You know, and that's what I hope you're doing with this podcast. This little nugget I got just one I

57:41 like. And if you execute well on one thing, excellent. You're good. Yeah. Thank you. So ladies and gentlemen, on that um what do you call it on that note of advice and wisdom from Martin, thank you very much for tuning in to episode 21 and we look forward to seeing you in episode 22. Thank you very much. [Music]