Pascal Maithya — transcript

Kristal Hair & Beauty

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:05 Yeah, good morning once again and welcome to African Do Podcast. Today is a very interesting day for us because we have uh for the first time someone who plays in a space that is more creative. Um and that's the hair space. As you can see, I'm not his customer. You know me, I'm light on the on the hair front. But uh um a young man who started even younger, but now is uh well in his way in the in the world of hair styling, scalp care, and a whole host of other things. So, uh I'll allow him to introduce himself in greater detail, but this is Mr. Pascal. Welcome, Mr. Pascal Muia. Thank you so from Crystal Hair. Is it Crystal? Yeah, Crystal Hair and Beauty Studio. Crystal Hair Hair and Beauty Studio. So, welcome to African Do Podcast. Asante sana. Um my name's uh Pascal Muia. That's uh my ID names. Uh 40 years old. Uh I've been in the hair business for 18

1:06 years. Uh it's one of those things that uh I never thought I would do coming from a background where we people don't think men should do hair. And uh I would say it's something that I I love and I enjoy doing. And um I'm also a director at Crystal Hair and Beauty Studio. Uh we are quite a number of directors both in the beauty industry. But uh mostly I'm the co-director. Excellent. So, maybe I can take you back. You you you've you've started by saying that uh uh Kiafrika or in African culture, men are not really seen uh as as hair people of course among the Masai, they they they do their hair, but it's not really a manly thing. So, did you study hair? You know, how did you end up What did What's your your post? Okay, my background is a I came from a strict family. Okay. Where like it's either you're the the the the official things that you should do that either you're an engineer, Mhm. a

2:11 a teacher, a soldier, or something of that sort. And in that strictness, what did you study? I actually did electrical engineering. Okay. And it's something I didn't enjoy. Okay. I finished But you graduated as an electrical engineer. Yes, yes. Okay. But got to a point I was like I wasn't enjoying it. I felt I should do something. It's just out of rebellion. Okay. Those things of you know sometimes then it was what your parents tell you, not what you feel you want to do. Okay. Then one day I ended up in the hair industry. I was actually debating between what to do. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Mhm. Then one day I ran into onto an article about it used to be the Sunday Nation the the pulse of the lifestyle something. Then some guy was talking about the hair business. I just went through it and I was like whatever. Then actually it happened as an accident. I'd

3:04 gone to see a friend of mine in town. Then I missed one floor and walked into a beauty school. Okay. And that was my turning point. The lady at the reception actually convinced me to do hair and I was like why not? Okay. So I went saw my friend finished. After that I went downstairs, went to the bank, paid my school fees. For the whole course which took like 7 months. And that's how it began. So you began after completing your course, you then went into hair and beauty salon. Actually what happened by the time I was done with school I had already gotten employment. Okay. I'd work on weekends that is Saturday, Sunday. Then when I finished I didn't join the place I used to work when I was in college. Uh, one of my sisters introduced me to a friend of hers who had a salon. Okay. Uh, I was there for that was in Ngumo. I was there for I remember around 3

4:06 months. Mhm. Then from there I went to Winta. I didn't last I felt like the environment wasn't challenging. Yes. Then I went back to I went to Ashley's where I was there for I think can I remember around 2 months. Mhm. And from there I moved to Kilimani. Yep. Uh, a friend referred someone who was looking for a stylist and when she called me I was like, "Yeah, I think I need another challenge." Yes. So I came to Kilimani. Kilimani I worked for her for like 3 months then she decided to relocate. So I didn't have a space. Then someone who I went to school with I called her and she told me, "Oh, where am I? There's space you can just come and talk to the to the owner." I went and I started. How I started when I moved to the other space I was not on salary. Mhm. It was like you come however you find your clients it is your problem. Oh, really?

5:07 However however you survive it is your problem. has provided the hair salon infrastructure. Yeah. You know the dryers and and and and the the seats and all that. Yeah. But no no formality no employment contract nothing. No, there's there's the space. Yeah, the products you figure out how you're going to get your own clientele. Okay. So that's how it started. And how do you pay the owner of the space? from what you make is the they take a commission out of it. Okay. Yeah. So I started and I was like, "You know what? I have to do this. This is the challenge I want." Mhm. And uh being very new in the industry I worked with the right people. I met the right people at that space. And I did everything. By coincidence or by design, you met the right people by chance? By chance. By chance, right? By chance. I didn't even know any of the guys. I just met them by chance.

6:03 And I was like, "Why not? I'm going to take it up." And from that they taught me a lot. Yes. Actually, they taught me a lot. But I worked without pay. I would wash I would sit at the reception. I would serve tea. I would clean the shop. They used to open at 11:00. I started opening at 7:00. And that's why I started getting my clientele. Your your clientele would come in Yeah, they would come in early before they go to the office. And the clientele would come in late after the office. Yeah. Um I say it's a story people don't know cuz mostly people look at the aesthetics of where you've gotten to. They don't know the journey. Yes. Uh I actually used to live in Kibera. Mhm. Uh when cuz now I couldn't stay at my sister's. I needed my own space. Uh I used to stay in a house that I used to pay 500. I would lay my mattress down, my sleeping bag, and my mattress. After I wake up, I place it on the side.

6:59 In the evening, you don't know whether you're coming back to find everything intact. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, from having one pair of shoes, two pairs of jeans, and three shirts Yeah, it was uh then my boss then had where the shop was, there was a space behind. Mhm. And out of concern, I don't know, I think God is always on my side. Yeah. She's like, "Since you usually open early, there's space here. Why can't you move your bed stay in behind the shop so that you can be opening early and closing late?" Mhm. And I was like, "Yeah, why not?" I actually went carried I didn't carry my mattress. I didn't I never went back home. I left everything there. Oh, really? Oh, so move in in the sense that you you go and live, not sleep. Yeah. You do your own hair. So, it's to live there behind so that I can live. a space like Like a like a studio more. Yeah, like a

7:54 like a studio. So, so I would I would live there. in there and and you move there so you're closer to the business. did not think twice. I went back home to Kibera. Yeah. I just went bought a mattress. I think I bought it for 1,000 bob. Yeah. And I was like, ah Now you're there. So, you're basically that's where the turning point was. I started building my clientele. From the first client, whom I still have till today. Okay. The first person I did the hair, I still have her as a client today. I still have the clients who saw potential in me. That was in 2006-2007. Yeah. I still have them till today. So, you're talking about what? Almost 18 years there. 18 odd years, yeah. Yes, yeah. Yeah. So, uh From there, I built my clientele within 6 months. I was in a place I could say I can afford to pay my bills. I can buy standing. some decent clothes. I can afford two

8:51 meals in a day. Yeah. Yeah. When I could only survive on milk and bread. Yes. Then, um Work push, work push. Uh I started having an interest of getting to know more cuz every other time, everyone perceives hairdressers and guys who are in the beauty industry as failures Yes. and mediocre. Agreed. It's not a a first choice. It's not a first choice. Even when you introduce yourself, I do hair, someone is like, okay. But But, um I'll tell you this, uh it's a perception that people have. Yes. But I don't look at it in that way cuz I don't believe everyone, whether you failed or passed, not everyone is good with books. Yes. And not everyone is an artist. I mean, you're evidence of that. But But before we even get there, let me you you when we were chatting about your business a couple of weeks ago, you you you told me that now you come one day and the place

10:02 is closed. Yeah. Is that the the the place? So, no, so Uh-huh. Uh, what happened was uh so, I moved from salon to salon Yes. trying to find uh a space. I was trying to like to look for a challenge. Yes. I I don't like comfort. Mhm. I like when I feel I'm I like discomfort. Okay. I'll I enjoy discomfort cuz discomfort makes me think and discomfort makes me focus. Mhm. So, after a year of being there, I started feeling like now it's time for me to make a step and I need another challenge. Yeah. So, one of my clients introduced me to someone who had a shop that was there for like almost a year and there was no business. So, I'm like we went, sat down, agreed. I gave my resignation. Moved moved houses. Got a space where I could live then um I worked, got to a point the business grew and I will tell you this for a fact. My the space I moved to that's the person who made me think of

11:05 business. Yes. And there was always a challenge and in challenge meaning in terms of how the business was running uh which wasn't I felt it wasn't the right way, but everyone has a way of running their own business. Uh sometimes you'd find find there's a bit of frustration Mhm. that you can't say cuz it's not your space. So, sometimes you just space that you moved to is not your space. You've moved again as an employee. Yeah, from the space where you used to sleep you were given a and now you're now in another hair. You're still employed? Yeah. Yeah. So I stayed there for for a year and a half. Then we disagreed on a few things in terms of running and commissions. Then I made a decision of So actually how this happened it's a someone was opening a shop. I was not in the mix of moving. I was not ready to move. Then uh the guys who worked with made sure cuz someone had been paid to make sure cuz I

12:10 was the top seller then. Yes. Made sure that I have to move. Mhm. So they would make phone calls. They would come discuss with me and like okay one uh we are moving this and this and me I'm like I'm not moving. I'm not ready to move. I don't feel it is the right time for me to move. Yeah. Then they would go back and talk to the owner and in using someone else's phone and act like they are clients. Pascal has said he's moving whatever and all that all that nonsense. So she finally bought into So she calls me and she tells me I'm being told a client called and said you're I'm like I'm not moving. So me and my innocent self I go sit with the same guys and they are like this is what I've been told. Everyone is asking what have you been told? What have you been told? I already know there's tension. I'm not snitching on anyone. Yeah. But I didn't know I'm the I'm the

13:05 I'm the You're the source of that tension. the target. You're the target of that. Yeah. So no one could move without me. So finally I don't know they convinced her she bought into the story. So she calls me again and is like you know what stop bullshitting me. Uh I've been told you're leaving and then she calls for a meeting and she says she used a word that I didn't take lightly. Mhm. And that's the minute I made my decision. Okay. And I went back to these guys and told them, "Can I meet your new boss?" Yes. I went, I met the new boss, and I made a We agreed. I made a decision at that particular moment. And I said, "I am leaving." Mhm. I never resigned. Okay. I walked out. You walked out. I walked out, and I walked out and left and went to the new space, which was very extremely inconclusive. I stayed for 6 weeks. And my previous boss calls me one day and

14:06 like, "Let's sit down. Let's talk about things." And that's when she pulled messages from guys we worked with that I was like, "Oh, these are the same guys I'm working with." Mhm. I decided to go back. Mhm. So, I went back. And from there is when I started thinking otherwise. So, when I went back, I told her, "If you mess me up again, I will leave Mhm. and I will not think twice." So, she ended up giving someone else to run the shop. And end of the month, it's end month, it's mid-month, there's no pay. We having issues with the person who is running it. I went, sat down with her, and I told her, "I'm leaving." And she said, "Hold on." I told her, "I'm going to leave." And the following day I left. I told them, "You want to stay with my money? If it's going to help you, well and good. I can't sit in such an environment. It's not pride, but I don't

15:02 find it genuine when someone tries to play with what you've worked for." So, those early days were sound like they were very unsettled. Yeah, very unsettled. And is that uh is is a trend in that in in that sector? It was Is it is it uh movement? Cuz as you're speaking, I'm thinking about my barber. And in the last 10 years he's been at three different locations. Yes. And he's moved from here to there and then he says and then he calls you and says, "Oh, Siku hapa Niko I've moved. I've moved to another place and and that seems to be Yeah. Actually, the trend is changing. Yes. And I'll I'll get to how the trend is changing. Yes. So from there I left and one of my client had a shop. I went to her. And from there I told her, "I'm not going to be here for long. I will leave cuz I'm trying to find how things happen out there." Then I got a small I was there for 3 months. I got a small space

16:07 where I had three stations Mhm. and two back washes. Your station? Yes, I rented out from I rented from someone. From someone. Okay. They were running a spa then one day I remember What was I? I was preparing for Concours d'Elegance cuz I used to participate then. Yes. Then I'm being called I'm at the garage. Please come. They're auctioneers. I'm like, "Auctioneers?" So I left everything. The auctioneers in your small rented space? in the space. So it was in the from someone. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm leasing from someone and I do not even till today I don't know where the where they were auctioned. I don't know. know the back story. I do not know the back story. So I went came. I'm very confident. So I walked to the auctioneers and I'm like, "Okay, what's the story?" They say, "We are here to pick stuff." Actually, the guy for the first time the guy was very

17:06 He wasn't rude. Mhm. And I told him, "Okay, listen. I've just been here for 4 months. I just bought this stuff. Mhm. My space is that small space. I'm renting from this person. I do not know what is happening. Mhm. Like I asked the guy, "Do you have brothers or young sisters?" I'm in my 20s. I'm just trying to find a way to To survive. To survive. If you take this away from me, you've cut my I'm done. I'm done. The guy is like, "Okay, we won't take. Let's see what we can do." So, they picked everything. So, I managed to convince them. Uh the guy told me, "Okay, I've heard your story. We won't touch your things. Can you get someone to take them away?" I asked them, "Can you give me one of your pickups? I will pay. They take them wherever." I did not know where to take these things. Mhm. So, we removed um I called a friend of mine. They have a space. I went kept them to his house.

18:04 To store your stuff, yeah. Yeah, and then from there is when I was like, "Okay." I said, "Let me finish with Conco's. It was that coming Sunday. It was a Thursday. I finalize, then I'll think of the rest." From that, the following morning, my phone never stopped to ring. And who was calling? Salon owners. Okay. Everyone was giving me offers left, right, and center. because now you have built a bit of a name for yourself. I was like, uh Now, do I need to go back to employment? Mhm. No. So, I looked for my agent. I told him, "I'm looking for space. Mhm. Uh this is my budget. However it goes, no problem." With what capital? Have you saved money or you have some savings now? I build the culture of saving. You have been You have been working and saving. Yeah, despite the the first first years where before you settle, you you you've got some money

19:00 you you you want to party every day. You want In your head, you want to be someone that you're not. So, you you you you try to live a life that is not yours. In your head, But after you've been It's called the It's called the folly The folly of youth. After you overcame After you overcame the folly of youth, you now have some savings. Yes. So, you make a decision after your auctioneering experience that, "Okay, let's go now." So, we went to the landlord. Mhm. Where Where Where Where is the space? The space is in Kilimani. So, you've now found a space in Kilimani, and you've gone and said, "Okay, now I'm going solo. Enough of this back and forth. I've been Yeah. So, Okay. Let's Let's go to the landlord. We go, the landlord is like, "Where's the client?" Like, "It's him." He asked me, "Can you afford? You're the age of my son." I'm like, "Yeah." And, "Can you afford?"

19:54 I'm like, "Yeah." And he looks at me. He said, "It's okay. I say it's fair value." Mhm. He said, "It's 6 months, 3 months rent, 3 months deposit." Okay. But I'll You'll just do 2 months deposit, 1 month rent. Okay. So, he says, "Give me 3 months." Yeah. So, I was like, I had cash in my pocket. You paid. I paid. Uh-huh. Cuz those days you're not even sure about your bank. Okay. So, me I went to the bank, removed the money. I'm going Me I'm going to pay. I didn't know if you're even going I did not read anything on that list I signed. Mhm. And I'm like, "Whatever." Mhm. So, I start fixing, setting up the space. It was a three-bedroom house. Remember, I'm alone. You're alone, yeah. Yeah. I don't have anyone to help me. So, gets to a point, some of the guys we worked with, I approached one of them, another one. So, we ended up when now the shop started with three. But go to a

20:51 point, my money is finished. I don't have a lot of savings. You're not even sure on You've never You don't know how to run a business. Mhm. You don't have anyone to guide you. Yes. And I was like, "I will learn in the game." Mhm. So, I went in. Uh I've set up everything. I've not finished then doing the electricals Mhm. and the piping. Okay. So, I'm stuck. Everyone is still calling. So, one of my clients, actually my first client calls me. Uh, Pascal, I'm landing by 4:00 p.m. today. Landing from where? So, she's based out of the country. Yeah. Okay. Uh, I want to come tomorrow morning for you to do my hair. And I laughed about it. And she asked me, "What's wrong?" I told her, "I don't have a space to work from." Yeah. She's like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "Yeah, we were auctioned." Then, I got this space. And so, she tells me, "Okay, once I land, let's meet at Yaya at

21:51 uh I will be there 6:00 p.m. Let's meet at Java." Mhm. I used to live on Dennis Pritt in an SQ. Yeah. I walked to Yaya, sat at Java. She shows up and she tells me, "I'm going to loan you this money to go and set up." I told her, "I don't need all that. I only need a quarter of what you're giving me." Wow. So, without you asking her, Yes. she comes and says that she will loan you the money to finish your store Yeah. and get it up and running. Yeah. She gave me the money. I called the plumber, the electrician. I'll tell you those guys told me, "We will help you set up this space. The day you get money, you will pay us." Mhm. I called him. We went to buy stuff at night in town. Mhm. We came, set up the whole night. In the morning, she was my first client. You set that place up overnight? whatever was remaining at night. Electricals, and plumbing, set up everything.

22:52 Yeah. And then now as we called her I In the morning, she came. She was the first client. And sometimes I like all the spaces I've been to, she's always been the first client. Oh, wow. I don't know how it happened. luck charm. It's like a good luck charm, yeah. She's always been the first client. And you paid her back? Yes, I paid her back. So, when I started I was like, within 3 months, 4 months, I should be able to pay that money back. I worked hard to pay that money back. Then 1 year after, I was like, now I need a proper setup. Okay. And I looked for another space in a more accessible place. Okay. Cuz I was all the way beyond Kilimani at Elgeyo Marakwet. Okay. So, I moved further to Closer to Closer to Chaka Place, that is Halingham Park. Okay. And that's where now everything turned around. Yes. From having a team of three, a startup of three, Mhm. we ended

23:55 up to being 11. Yeah. Uh from 11, we ended up to 16. Okay. And then now some of the trainings I usually go for, I always knew I want more. So, before we get to training, it's great that you've brought up your staff. Yes. Yeah, and your team. Yeah. Uh when we are chatting about the business, you told me one day you you woke up in the morning and you're in a unique business. Yes. And the uniqueness of that business is that um um you have to train Yes. people Yes. because you are limited in how many clients you can serve in a day. And so, in order to build a thriving business in your space, And the circulation to to get other people who perform as good as or who you teach to perform as good as as you can. But you like like we saw with your early career, Yes. Mhm. movement is for either a few extra shillings or So, maybe you can walk us through that journey. How how it was to

25:05 build a team. You you told me that once you woke up in the morning and guys have taken your people and and they have moved a large number of them have moved to other places. So, maybe you can tell us a bit about that. the team of 16, I had 11. I got them when they had nothing, no clientele, no one. So, I built them. Yeah. Told them how to do stuff, made them get into competitions, put them in places where they could be recognized so that they build a name. Cuz I always believe in personal branding. Yes. First it's personal branding. Who are you as a brand? As a as a as a brand. thing, yeah. And that is one thing I always tell my staff. Yeah. Who are you as a brand? So, uh that was in around 20 six, was it? End of 20 six 2017. Yes. I've seen people forming groups. Yeah. I'm like, "Something is cooking." Yeah. But I'm like Yeah, with the team I have of 16, but

26:08 I'm seeing a bit like seven, eight guys. You see they live together, they come back. They're forming a friendship that wasn't there initially. Yes. So, I'm suspicious and I'm not sure. If I don't want to ask cuz I'm still in fear. Mhm. Then one morning, everyone is gone. Your people? Yeah. You come you come and they're 11 top sellers, the guys I picked, taught, trained, pushed, held them and I was like, "Whoa, they're gone." So, you have a team of 16 and 11 have gone. Yeah, they people left. Nine left at first. And I'm left with the with the um seven. Okay. So, out of the seven, I'm not sure who's staying. Yes. So, that day uh I already know the guys I've left. Today, we at work, everything is going on well. And things are working. And I'm not scared then. What hit me the hardest was uh when two other guys who I picked from somewhere uh walked out,

27:24 switched off their phones. I'm calling, no one is speaking. And I'm like, "Whoa, today is that day." I won't lie to you that I was broken. You were heartbroken. broken. Yeah. I sat at Java Valley a kid Mhm. from 7:30 in the morning. Yes, I left at 9:30. At night? Yes. Yeah. I think I sampled all the Yeah. many other meals in that many hours. doing therapy. Yes. Self-therapy at Java. Yeah, so in that process uh someone else's staff was also poached. Calls me like, "Hey, Pascal, I don't even know what to tell you." I'm like, "I'm at Java. I'm having the same problem." We sat there. At least uh she left early. I told her, "I'm still I'm not in a rush." Mhm. So, we discussed and uh I was actually like, "You know what? These are things that happen. So, what do I do behind this?" Okay. So, I went home, showered, slept. The following day, I was at work. Yes. And that's the day I knew how to do

28:36 business. Okay. And I won't lie to you you do specifically? day I changed how to do this business. Okay. The team I had, I already I have five remaining plus me Mhm. and my business partner. So, we are seven now. Sat down. I said, "The team I have, they can do things that the other team could do. I know out of the excitement and the hype, business will go down cuz clients will run. Okay, with the new team that is the team. Even the clients we thought are loyal, they will run. Yes. But that will not break me. So long as I can pay bills and so long as I can pay everyone Yeah. and we don't lack even products. So, from the savings I had a plan, I knew we can survive. If things are thick, we can survive for a year. Yes. So, what I did, told my business partner, "You know what? We are going for it." I also pushed the other guys cuz we are in the process of pushing. So, I rushed

29:32 the push for them to stabilize. Okay. We stabilize what? It's training or Training, getting them to do things that they were scared of doing. Okay. And that is when like everyone was like, "Oh, I can do this. I can do this." We started picking again. Yeah. Uh There's something I forgot to say. One thing about our business is if I work in the industry, Yeah. we work together. Let's say for example, me and you are working together. Mhm. You open a space, you come and convince me to come and work for you. I will never see potential in you. Okay. Till people even say, "They are watching you. You won't last." They will even give you a timeline of how long you last. Yes. they say now there's no what? It's cuz the lack of loyalty or what? What is driving that? Like they don't believe you can start a space from employment and have it grow and get it move further. Okay. So,

30:29 I managed and guys started I started convincing guys, talking to people. Then 1 year after, two of my guys came and told me, "Uh we feel it's time for us to to try something else. Let's go try out there. If it doesn't work, we will come back. If it works, well and good. And I gave them my blessings. I was okay. I learned one thing. Do not hold someone who is ready to leave. These ones didn't They didn't run. They came to see you. They told Yeah, we had a conversation and I was like, "Yeah." I want to to to try something different and thank you very much and and I'm out. Yeah. So, I learned one thing. I stopped holding. Mhm. I I I said, "No feelings. No hard feelings." Yes. And it's one thing if someone comes and tells me, "It's time for me to go. It's time for me to leave." It is well. I won't hold on to you. I won't try to convince you to stay. Just I'll actually

31:24 give you advice and tell you how to do it. Go try how to do it and see how far you can go. So, you're quite confident by this time you're quite confident in your ability. Yes. But you were telling us about how you you you helped You know, when you when your big left. Yeah. How you then now got Yes. You stabilized the shop. Yeah, I stabilized the shop and managed to get other people to stabilize the shop. Okay. Then um after a year, two guys left and I was like, "It's okay." The two who came to see you. that process, I was always thinking of things. There's always one thing I've always thought about. We never have team buildings in our industry in the in the hairdressing space. That's why I started doing team buildings with my team. Uh-huh. I got to a point I got to understand them. And how how would you do these team buildings? Uh first we started having a trainer. We look for a space. Okay. We

32:18 go spend a day together. Yes. We say, "Yes, I'm the head, but now we are all equal." Yes. Let's talk about this business. Then we started taking breaks from every year, every March of every year for the last 12 years. Yes. We have 10 days of work. We all go away. You're not in your family space. Not a familiar space. We prefer them coastal town. We have two, three, four days of team building. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. So, you're saying that in your hairdresser I in in March of every year Yes. as a team, you shut down the business Yes. and you go to the coast for 10 days. 10 days. to to bond and just Three days of proper team building. Okay. And the rest of the days is I tell my guys, "Knock yourself out. Do not get arrested. Do not do things that will affect your work. Yeah. Take rest. When we go back, Yeah. we work." And this is funded by the

33:24 company. Yes. Oh, wow. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Uh-huh. So, And what what do you think has been the benefit of that? Uh the mindset Okay. has changed. I've seen about that mindset. is uh we live Our industry has a lot of mental health issues. issues. Okay. How I learned about mental health is after the break and all these, I started working with L'Oreal Paris. Okay. Uh through the Kenyan um office. office. Yeah. And that is how I started learning about mental health, which it's just that most of us don't talk about it. Agreed. And uh you have to understand each and every person's background to be able to know how to deal with them, what to say to them, how to say it, and how to handle things like when they're in a space, maybe it's a conflict, maybe it's a disagreement, and all that. Through the team building and the break, I've built a team that sits together.

34:29 Yes. And a team that speaks the same language. Okay. And a team that loves one another despite that there will always be disagreement. We don't have to walk on the same path, but we can create one bond. We don't have to speak the same language, but we know what brings us to work every day. Yeah. Yeah. Um surprisingly, you'll find my team seated together conversing. Yeah. It is hard to find spaces like that. Mhm. Uh you'll also find they stand by one another. Okay. Yeah. And one thing I always tell them is we are not friends. It is by chance or coincidence that we are all in this space. Always remember that we are not friends. It's by chance or by coincidence that we are in this space. The only thing is we can only create a conducive environment for one another. Mhm. And one thing I always like saying is about mental health is one thing that people don't talk about. We are always

35:29 scared to talk about. I mean, that's very interesting. I remember when we were when I was looking to meet you so that we can talk about this interview. Um on a I I tried I called your office on a Friday. Mhm. And uh that number was off. And the next day I called and I was told, "Oh, sorry, you tried to reach us yesterday, but uh we were closed." Yes. And I didn't appreciate I was like, "Closed? A hair place on Friday? Friday's a busy day." But I later on came to find out that you have a member of staff Yeah. who uh was raised by her grandmother Yeah. and her grandmother Mhm. passed on. Yeah. And so you shut down the office to go and bury. Yeah. I mean, that's that's quite rare to have that kind of bond within a team where you can shut down the office to go and bury. Is Is that connected to the whole mental health team building perspective you

36:31 have in the way you run your business? Yes. Yeah. One thing I believe in is you have to support. And if you can't support the people you're with and the people you know, Yeah. no one will ever support you. Okay. For example, it's very hard in this country to start a business. Yeah, tell me about it. Extremely hard and it's very hard because uh you'll write a proposal, take it to the bank, and they check on your bank account, your savings and the proposal don't even match. And even sometimes I doubt they even check on the proposal. I think they look at the person. And when you want to do something and you go to the bank, they will never believe in you. It's something I've tried. Apart from now, maybe slightly things have changed. But your bank balance, your bank balance is a bit different. yeah, when you're not even established, there's no bank that will believe in

37:32 you. Okay. But the minute they see your vision and uh you've already set up is when they come running. And I wish I which I feel there are so many people wanted to start businesses and that is why you find there's a very big gap where a young person has an idea of running a certain business. You approach the bank. No bank will listen to you. And actually why I was stuck, it is because I went to my bank and because I've never done business, it's just my personal savings. Yes. I do not have an employment letter. They're like, "No." Can't touch you. When they started seeing my savings within 6 5 7 months, they start coming to me to tell me, "We can give you this. We can give you this." And I'm like, no. I'm not in a rush. Yeah. And for the years I've been working and all this so I teaching myself to have the idea of doing savings. I'm never certain if I

38:36 approach a bank cuz I want to do a project and they say no. So interesting Pascal, you mentioned that because you're now the second guest Mhm. that we have had Mhm. who doesn't uh consider the local banking sector or or institutions as a partner in your business. Mhm. Uh in the sense that you have built your business around them Mhm. not with them. Yeah. Uh now you're you're big, you have a a bigger name and and and maybe a bigger client base. You now uh maybe your relationship with the bank may have changed. Yes. But you actually built your business around Yes. the banking the local banking sector. Yes. Yeah? Mhm. Uh very interesting for me because when we we talk about I think sometimes there's a disconnect between what we say and what happens on the ground. On the ground, yeah. You know, we we we are talking about the creative economy, uh people who want to have alternative

39:35 business and I know the relationship uh men and women nowadays have with their hair. Mhm. And it's a growing trade so that's very interesting. Um But let's let's let's go into you mentioned L'Oreal. Yes. Yeah? Yeah. So uh and I know that you've now transitioned in in the sense that you're a bit more than a hairdresser or a hair stylist, yeah? Uh you do you you have done quite a few international uh learning and development programs. Yes. Uh you study uh what did you call it? The the mixing of the ingredients? The formulations. Formulation of of stuff that you use in hair Yeah. and you you you do uh deal a lot with the scalp health for for for women as as a route to better hair care. Yeah. So, maybe you can tell us that L'Oreal is a is a is a large global brand. Yes. And maybe you can just walk us through that journey from this guy who was running from salon

40:36 to salon to now this guy who's flying to Paris for training on hair and and and and the such. Walk us through what how that came about. when I started working with L'Oreal, it's a someone recognized me Yes. from my social media page. Okay. That is Pascal Hair Kenya. Yes. Where I was tagging L'Oreal and I started having that conversation with them and mostly it was the hype of silk presses. Mhm. And they were producing a gadget. It's It's called a steam pod that they needed. Yes. It's a It's a It's a press iron, a flat iron. Uh that uses steam. And that is how I got into L'Oreal. So, I became I became like their brand ambassador. They would send models to me to do that then. Out of that, I would do live demos Okay. uh from my shop with guys in Paris and they would watch and we'll discuss a lot of things on how to go about it and the challenges that we had. Okay. Then my first travel

41:35 was like an introduction of what the brand is entailed. This is travel to where? Paris. To Paris, yeah. Yeah. Actually, it came like a shock that to me as like I didn't expect. Mhm. And when I was called, you've been chosen to go to Paris with several other guys from the the same industry Yes. in Kenya and in Africa. Yes. Nigeria and South Africa. I was like, okay. Well, I was not even sure why I'm going, what I'm going to do. I was like, why not? The day came. It was around uh November when it was moved that that that's where it's going to the winter season. Yes. So, we went we had a a very good training. We were introduced to the labs. What happened? It was like a tour. Yes. Uh it was a one-week tour. Uh everything fully paid for from accommodation, transport, and all that. And I really learned a lot. And that changed my kind of thinking.

42:43 It opened your mind. It opened my mind in things that I always dreamed of. Okay. Things that I thought could be possible. Okay. I didn't think I would manage to do them. And when I came back, I came back a different person. And initially, in 2017-2018, I had sketches of the space that I have and a space that was in my head. Yes. Yeah. It was in my head then. It is not a space that I'd seen. And I remember one day as I was walking towards the I told one of my I was walking with my lawyer and I told him one day if I ever get space at Chaka Place I will never think twice. If I don't have money I will come and borrow money from you. Yeah. Yeah. I told him that. And we laughed about it and we went then um when I came back, I came back with a lot of ideas in my head. And from then, I had it was during It was actually I joined L'Oreal during COVID. And everyone was scared and all that. I

43:54 stayed home 3 days and my clients were calling, "Please, just come. You do our hairs." I actually worked the whole season for COVID. Oh, really? And the funny thing At my space. Okay. Cuz I didn't want to go to someone's house. Let me come to my space. Mhm. Uh we have I would have two three clients in a day. Okay. And we took all the precautions. Yes. Um actually when I remember when the first announcement to for COVID happened, we were on our way back from the team building. Yes, from the coast. From the coast. Yeah. So when the president announced about the lockdown, we were somewhere in Kibwezi on our way back. Okay. So we got back. Everyone went home and yeah. Then the following year there was still a lockdown. They opened the lockdown. Then we went back again for the team building. Okay. Came back. When we came back there was another lockdown. And we are like,

44:51 "Okay, I think this thing just favors us Anyway, so then uh is when a team of guys approached me and they're like, "We need to come and work with you." And I was like, "Well, I don't have that space." And where my shop was, there was an empty space. I approached the landlord. Uh they're like, "Okay, take up the space." I had some money. I'd done some market L'Oreal. They'd paid me. I paid for the space. Set up the space. These guys came. They came three of them. Oh, now it's Another space for what I have. are coming and saying the space I have Yes. after guys had left, we managed to get to 16 again. Yes. Then now there's an I can't I couldn't hold more than 16. 16 people, yeah. So guys start approaching me, "Can we come work with you?" So I'm like, "What do I do? What do I do?" So I saw that space. I approached What happened to the guys? It's empty. How long? Is it been leased

45:47 out? Yeah. How much we paid? We start working on it. We did it for 1 week. In a week we were done set up. Yeah. Done everything. Then I told these guys, "Now come." They came, checked. They were like, "We start next Mhm. They start. That's how I expanded. Yes. And from there now from 16, a team of 16, you're now at around 18, 19. Between 19. Yeah. Then as time went by we were 39. 39 staff? Yeah, both shops. Both shops, yeah. Yeah, then with time you find now there are guys who just come to waste time and to avoid a lot of idleness, gossip, you check guys who are not hitting targets. Yes. You give them time, you have to release them. Okay. Cuz my target, I don't want to go beyond 34. Yes. And I don't want to be below 26. Okay. That is a good number in terms of everyone will have work. Mhm. You won't have guys coming to idle and starting to steal, gossip, and discuss

46:46 things that are not necessary. Okay. So then um when we said that, I went That's the time now I went to Paris. Then came back with that changed mindset and all that. Then the year ended. That was in 20 when 2024 2021 is when now I came back, 2022. Um Uh I was to go, but uh I went through a mental breakdown. Okay. For yourself? Yeah. What? Mhm. Okay. Uh-huh. Uh and when I talk about it, guys think it was a joke. It wasn't a joke. Yeah. Even my clients ask me like What was it? Burnout or It was burnout and I was in a space where I couldn't see beyond where I'm stepping. Okay. I was stuck. I was just seeing dark. I was just blank. Mhm. Blank, blank, blank. I could not even make a single decision. And everything was I just It was just extremely overwhelming. Then I remember when you went for the team building, I was not functional. I actually spent most of the time

47:54 sleeping. Mhm. And everyone was worried like, are you okay? I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm the the hype. Yes. And the hype is not functioning. So, what is happening? So, like, even when we we did dinner with the team, I was just there. I look at those pictures and I laugh. Mhm. But it reminds me of that space which I would never want to go back to it. Yeah. Then, when we came back, I had to go for counseling, worked on it. I after Uh I took a break, went for 1 week, Mhm. came back. Mhm. And I was like, no, it is not enough. Went back again, another 3 weeks of work. Okay. Then, when I came back, that space I'd said one day, the Chaka Place. Yes. Yeah. It's there. I'm being told there's space at Chaka Place. Yeah. I was like, okay, I got excited. Mhm. Cuz we are discussing where the business is and where we need to move next. So, the following morning, went in,

49:00 found the caretaker. I was the first person to see the space. When I saw the space, I didn't even want to see any other space cuz there were several spaces. I was like, this is it. I went, uh called my lawyer, I came, we gave an offer letter. Immediately, I had some savings before I even told my business partner, I had put money. So, I went now cuz I knew now my business partner would be like, let me think about it, let's discuss. So, I knew in my head, I'm not going to let this go. Mhm. So, I committed. Went, figured out how to tell my business partner, told her, "Something, let's discuss." Mhm. As we are discussing, I'm like, so, some amount I needed, I told my lawyer, "I'm short of this, please lend me this money, we finish this, it will be refunded." So, after everything had been signed, I showed my business partner, "Here's what we've

49:49 done, what what." They had no choice Mhm. just to agree. Mhm. And it was at that time you I felt like my business needs to change. I've had this equipment for so long. So, I need a complete whole setup. Overhaul. I had an inspo that I went to in one of the tours in Paris. I found this space that had almost things I've always wished for. And that was my idea from 2017 when I was sketching all these sketches. So, immediately the work started which took 11 months. To fit out the space. Yes. Okay. 11 months to even before we started Okay. working. We even moved in Mhm. before it was finished. Okay. So, we've been finishing as we are still We are actually 4 months in. Okay. Yeah. So, then in that process after my mental illness, I was supposed to go to Paris. So, I asked them if they could let one of my staff go cuz I don't feel I'm in the right space Yes. to travel. Yeah. And they went, came

50:49 back with a different change of mind. of your team members now went for the Paris trip. Yes. In your stead. Yeah. Yeah. And it's one thing I'm always proud of. I'm always proud when I see any of my staff or anyone elevate. I usually feel like I've I've won an award. Then this year beginning uh there was another travel to Paris which was uh they were looking for guys who can help in formulating and designing a product for the next five to the future product. That's what I can say. And out of the interview with several guys from Africa, I managed to be chosen. Yes. And this one was different. And I I would say it was one thing that I've always wanted to know. What are formulations? How formulations created? What are the compositions? Everything. And what are the environmental factors? Meaning, can it be harmful to you? And if there's any harm, what

51:55 are things that the world has banned that cannot be used on products? You know, most of the times we have these theories of whereby brand competitors come up with stories whereby oh, this product did 1 2 3, which we all know so long as we're in business we'll have such kind of banter from people. Yes. So, I went and you meet guys, you're the only black human. Mhm. Everyone is different. They have exposure. You don't have exposure. You only know basics. But the lucky part about it, I've invested in myself. Yes. I've done I study all the time. Yeah. I knew a lot of products. I knew a lot of things by the time I was getting there. So, I did not float. Even one of the guys said most of the times when you get guys from Africa, they are not able to tell us anything. They start telling us about what we have, but we don't want to know about what we have. Yes. We want to know what

52:53 can we create that is that is the market needs. that is the market needs. Yeah. So, we really It was a very interesting first day. Yes. Having a camera. Yes. Having a microphone. Mhm. Having someone asking you questions. And having yourself discussing about what you're doing and what you think and what you're achieving. Which is different. We are used to our routine. Yes. I know. I have appointments. I have Mondazzi coming. He's coming for ABC. Yeah. I have my assistant to help me. And I do 1 2 3. So, there There's The only thing is I'll explain to you about your scalp, your hair, and all that. And that's when I realized where the world is right now. And the world is more to the scalp and to the skin. Okay. That is the face Mhm. and the extension of the face, that is the scalp where the hair grows from. No one gives attention to that. We're always talking about how best I can

53:53 style. Yes. How best of of products what I can use. It starts from the scalp. Yeah. I met one lady from Korea who does a scalp spa. And after I came back, we've had classes with her. Yes. And I've really learned a lot. Mhm. Uh I understand the scalp better. I want to enroll back to school. I've I finished the classes with her in August. I want to enroll back to understand more on the scalp issues so that I'm I become a better person when it comes to knowing what I'm doing Yeah. and why I'm doing it. Okay. Cuz most of the times you find we just do things cuz we are doing. If you ask sometimes I challenge my staff, why exactly are you using this product? What is the reason you're using this product? And that has really made it easy for them to also get to have the the urge to learn. Yeah. And get to understand more about products knowledge

54:49 and what to tell and how to speak. So this time when we went, the first day I'm excited. We did then there's the recap. Then the second day, jet lag checks in. Mhm. You're there, you're familiarizing, but you can't get yourself to think. Mhm. You're struggling. Cuz and luckily I think the guys read the moods for everyone. It was an easy day. We had a very It was a more easy conversation than doing. And actually after the first day they did a team building. So they took us for dinner. We had fun activities to break the ice and get everyone to know each other. Then up from there, the Wednesday, the Thursday, the Friday, it was just everything and that was the first time I'd traveled to Paris and the second that not the third time not given transport. You figure it out. You're given directions. Yes. You have to figure out how to use the metro. Yes. And it was

55:56 it was that discomfort of figuring out island like it's that easy. We always think it's complicated. You just need to know where you are lighting and where and since you have the map. And I really had. Time to see. Paris after work cuz it's busy. It's 8:00 till 8:00 in the evening. Yes. And it was it was spring. So the days are longer. Yes. So at 10:00 p.m. There's still there's still sunshine. Yeah. Pascal. First of all, thank you very much for your candor, your honesty. You have you have touched on a lot of issues that I know are personal. No. Your mental health. But I think maybe I can share with you the things I admire about the business that you're building. Very people-centric. It is interesting that you instituting things in your business that I believe extremely high impact. Yes. That are building very cohesive teams. But you started doing them 12 years ago

57:04 just because it was something that. Yeah. Makes sense for where you wanted to take your business. So maybe you can tell us briefly as we wrap up what's the future for for for Crystallure and Pascal. You've had a very interesting. Entrepreneurial journey in the space of hair. You're starting your you've been a pioneer in many areas and in the things that you're doing and you're continuing to do that. Seeking training on scalp care and all that. But where are you going? What do the next 10 years look like for you? Uh I'll be honest. Uh I My biggest dream is to see Crystal still remain and stand even after me. Okay. To live beyond you. Yeah. Even if I'll not be alive. Yes. That is my biggest dream. Okay. And that's the kind of team I'm creating whereby everyone becomes a shareholder. Excellent. And um to have the mind that everything is possible.

58:14 And the other thing I would always want to say it's sometimes as parents let's not limit our kids. What we we limit, yeah. Let's let's have to find where people are talented. There are things There's more to it than just the face. Okay. And uh I'll say as much as sorry to say, our parents will never be proud saying that I do hair. Yes. I know deep down they do appreciate They do appreciate I'm sure they do. The journey It's just It's just that they have If I say my son does hair, what? It's It's the basic cuz everyone thinks hair is just about the braiding. Yes. There's a lot There's a lot more that goes into it as we have learned over the last 1 hour. And I'm actually proud that people are starting to recognize education in the hair business. Um we have schools that have come up. And in future, I plan to become not a trainer but I want to start doing masterclasses whereby I can sit with

59:19 Mondachi and tell you like things that you need to do to your hair that will keep your scalp healthy and also your hair healthy. And that is meaning both women and men. Excellent. Yes. Pascal, thank you very much for your time. And our has gone by very fast. Ladies and gentlemen, um Pascal, you can find him at Chakra Place, third floor. Crystal Hair and Beauty. They have a fabulous fabulous store. I took a tour a couple of weeks ago and it's a place worthy to go and have a look at what they're doing. And congratulations on what you've done and what you continue to do in the industry. Um and we are grateful that we can you can share this story with us and hopefully inspire more people to to go and push their dreams the way you have done. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your time here today with us on African Do Podcast episode five.

1:00:15 And uh subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can follow Pascal Pascal Hair Kenya on Instagram, on TikTok. TikTok and And Facebook Facebook. And also on Google. And and and on Google. So, Pascal Hair Kenya, uh third floor, Chakra Place on Argwings Kodhek Road. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, and have a good day. Thank you.