Rennil Olchekut — transcript

One at a Time. How Reyian Risa Is Rebuilding Her Community Through Premium Meat | Rennil Olchekut

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:05 Greetings, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to episode 61 of the African Doo podcast. Today, I'm very privileged to have with us Ms. Reanne Risa from Renil Ol Kejuut Ranch. Ol Chekuut.
Ol Chekuut. It must be the dyslexia in me. Renil Ol Chekuut Ranch.
It's a mouthful, so
Yeah. So, welcome to the African Doo podcast.
Thank you, Leonard. So, I was watching a YouTube uh um clip clip on you. Mhm. And you you made a statement that that uh that got me that tickled. And it was that uh "Ng'ombe si za wanawake."
Mhm. It's actually it's said in in my language, "Mera ai ng'ishu eng'ito." There's no cows that belong to females. Very And surprisingly, that statement has been used and misused. So, there's a tale. I don't know how true that tale is. That they say cows drop from heaven. Masai's believe that from heaven. But, so they were dropped from heaven and the women were the ones that were taking care of it. Then, I don't know, somehow they kept

1:13 they kept moving. You know, the way cows move. And the women were busy doing household chores. And eventually, the cows left and left. By the time she was coming to check on the cows, the cows have left. And therefore, they don't belong to her. But when they were given to the men, the men took care of it. Which I don't think it's true, though. Okay. Yet here we are. Yeah, here we are. Here we are speaking to you as a female rancher. So, maybe let's start with your past. Where Where did you grow up? Um what did you do? What did you study? And how do you find yourself eventually now pursuing this? Is this something that you studied, or how do you find yourself in this space? Interesting. I I would say I have my child of both worlds because I I don't know for my dad, I don't know why he decided I would say my dad never stepped in anyone class, but he ended up just uh

2:08 I think desiring because I think his first job, he says he was a guard. Mhm. Typical You see the things that people say, "Masai ni wa gate." So, my dad was a security guard, I think, to a white lady. And for that, I think it gave me a lot of exposure for that. So, I was actually born in Nairobi. Uh spent my formative years between Athi River because that's where both my parents worked for a cement company. But I spent most of my formative years then in the village. But there was a rule in our home. Uh I think now, in hindsight, I think it was my dad trying to make sure that we got education and self-preservation, as well. When you get to grade three,
[clears throat]
you will then move to a boarding school.

2:49
Okay. So, then I moved to a boarding school. And that's how my formative education. And you will only then visit the village during the holidays.
Okay. But with my dad. Mhm. The village being where? Kajiado. Kajiado East. No, people say Kajiado, they think it's Ngong. And it's a place called Il Mukutani. Okay. Of Mashuru. Mashuru. Now Now they're called sub-counties. Yes. That time they were called divisions. Yes. Yeah. And And so, then that's that's how my life was and has been is between the village and then Athi River. And then after that, then we I finished the primary school. Primary school was in Kajiado. A girls' boarding school. You could still see the see the thought process of my dad that he was trying to I think because at that time, early marriages uh were very rampant and girls not going to school, I think it was just to preserve us.

3:42
Protective of Yes, because all his his daughters and my dad is polygamous, which is typical of Masai's. My elder sister must be heading to her 60s. Okay. And we have an 18-year-old lastborn. So, you can see the difference.
Okay. So, all the girls always went to a girls' school. The boys were allowed to either be a day scholars or go to a boarding school.
But the girls, boarding school.
And girls' boarding actually, I don't think any of us of the eight girls, I don't think anyone has gone to a high school that is not mainstream. So, I even when I finished, as well, that was that was really just when I finished primary, that was just really also made sense. I went to another girls' school again. And that's how I spent most of my formative years. Then I went I came to Nairobi for compass. I went to University of

4:36 Nairobi. I was studying law. And that's just how my my life
a lawyer? Yes, I am a lawyer by training. Okay.
Yes. Okay. So now, this is getting interesting. So now, how do we now transition or do you practice law? Do you go post post-graduation? Do you go and practice the law? No, I don't I go to the mainstream law. I go to the refugee world.
Okay. And I spent all my years until I moved to ranching 4 years ago, full-time ranching 4 4 years ago.
In the NGO space.
Okay. Uh taking care of refugees. And that's And that's now I think that's my That was my bread and butter then. Mhm. Uh how do I go Did I go to ranching? I always say when when a Bantu I mean, you have to use a Bantu child finish school, they are told buy a plot. When we start working, we are told buy a cow. Mhm. And that's where now I started thinking, mhm, there's there's something wrong. And that's why I'm saying the

5:33 statement that cows don't belong to a woman came very very close home because when you finish school, my dad says, "When you get a job, it would be good if you started investing." And what does he mean by investing? You buy a cow. Mhm. And you buy and they multiply. But, anytime you want to do anything with these cows, sell, give, anything but but drink milk, you have to consult my dad. Talk to him. It's your cow. Yeah. Mhm. Bought by me. Mhm. Uh most of the times, you've also taken care of it. But you had to speak to him. But that's not even how we ended up being in Renil. Renil ended up becoming a Same cows now, it's drought season, and we are moving from one place to another in search of pasture. And I remember thinking at that time, I think I was either in Dadaab or Kakuma, one of those. I remember thinking, "There must be something we can do better." Better.

6:29 So, I asked my dad, "How about we don't move?" And he told me to As opposed to what? I'm like, "We could feed the animals here and see what happens." And my dad just looked and said, My dad every time has this statement, "I think you guys I think there's something wrong. You are too educated."
[laughter]
Like it's a Bantu thing. So, sometimes I think so. I agree with him in other
In In some In Sometimes [clears throat] he makes a point. Yeah. Yes, but at that time, he just thought, "I must omo. There's something Are we allowed to speak Swahili?" No, of course you are. Yes. So, he said, "I must omo." Mhm. [clears throat] But by the time his cows were getting in By his cows now also mine are there. I getting to Kitui, he's lost quite a number. Please note Kajiado to Kitui.

7:16
And this time, he's looking for pasture.
Yes. We move. We go to Emali, which is our nearest. Pasture is done because remember the Kambas, we don't have large tract of land like we do. It's maybe 10 acres or someone has fenced. It's actually a source of livelihood. The neighboring communities, it's a source of livelihood during the rain during the drought season. The Masai's will for sure move. So, during the rain season, they prepare their land knowing that Masai's will
Masai's will move. And Masai's, by the way, let me tell you, during drought, people will not have food at home, but cows will have food. Mhm.
Cows will have pasture. So, that By the time we go to Kitui, I thought, mhm,

7:53
[clears throat]
I think we could do something. So, I asked him whether he could return them. At that time, I think he was at his end. He's He's spent so much money. He's lost a lot of cows. My then late mom had developed uh high blood pressure. It was just bad. So, he brought the cows back home, and I thankfully
Let's get context on this. He's walking with the cows. Mhm. He's paying people to walk with He's paying for people to walk with the cows. Yes. So, he just to understand the the lay of the land. He has his land in Kajiado Yes. where his cows regularly stay.
Mhm. Yeah. But because of drought and lack of pasture on his land, he then walks Moves, yeah.
that traverses the country uh looking for pasture. Okay. People even go as far up from Kajiado to Nakuru. Wow. Yeah. The way they used to do now, they were able to afford trucks Mhm. for the cows to move. Mhm. And for context, the poorest of the ma in my region has at least 200 acres. Mhm. Of land.

8:53
Of land. Mhm. But they are still moving. So here, by the time he gets to Nakuru, I think he got desperate. You know, last Sorry, Kitui. He got desperate, and he he I think finally accepted my call. So, I Googled, called many places, and found pasture in Nakuru, paid a truck, brought back. And we just maintained the cows that he was left. I think from a herd of He purchased hay? No, I purchased hay. You purchased hay now from Nakuru.
From Nakuru. And then you transported it to Kajiado. He's brought the cows back.
But remember, he's he had he had a herd of about 200. Now we have a herd of less than about 60, 70, there about.
Wow. And the drought is not ending. So, we come and we start feeding it, and they don't they don't die. In fact, they died because we didn't know how to feed them. What is called acidosis. Mhm. And And that just triggered something in me, and I thought, "This could be done better." The pasture we were buying, people were cutting from lands that maybe even had fewer acres, had fewer had fewer resources. So now, I just started now

9:57 doing the same what I had seen when we are buying pasture. Paddock the land and during the drought, we don't move. We feed from one place to another. And that's just how then it became. So, it became a side hustle. During the drought, uh I I I'll be back to the village to make sure cows are not dying. And quickly, people are asking my father, "If you want to always say if you want It's very easy to speak to a mama and because if the cows are not dying and they look well, they will for sure listen to you." And they started asking what's what's happening. "Why are your cows not dying?" My dad is like, "I have no idea. You ask my daughter." And now that's how the ranching part I just began. So, let's let's drill down a bit into this ranching part. You've done your research triggered from uh the circumstances you are in. You then purchase um

10:51 You then purchase a hay and you feed your cows. You save You save the ones that had survived the drought. But now you come and you paddock your land. So, what do you do? You You look for grass seed or what do you do? You What do you How do you Maybe walk us through the thinking in that journey. What What do you What grasses are you going to plant? Do you Do you use grasses that are there or how do you go about it? Actually, until last year, we never bought any grasses. We just paddock the land and remove the weeds. And the grass will naturally grow.
Yes. And then uh in May, you cut the grass. Before before the the long rains actually, it's normally around March. You cut the grass so that by the time the April grass uh the rain April rain comes, we have more grass. So, it just started as simple as that. And I also wanted to simplify it so that there's no issue of cost. So, that if I'm trying to transfer the knowledge to our neighbors who are now interested, there's no issue of

11:51 uh cost. And surprisingly, there's even now learning There's even a grass called Masai love because they harvested from the Masai community and propagated it. So, that's exactly what we did. We just paddocked, uh remove weeds, and then uh bale it. So, it's pasture planting, pasture conservation, and then from there now you use them during the drought.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Interesting. And then you are talking about your dad's um friends, your neighbors. So, did they come and consult you? I they they consulted directly indirectly because they now are seeing cows are not dying and we are no longer not moving. In fact, what we are doing is during the rainy season is we uh really fencing using the live Of course, we use the shrubs. The live uh fence. So, something is happening here.

12:45 Uh because even now the issue we are having with meat is because of the droughts. Because when the drought come, it wipes out their herds. So, we are trying to rebuild. So, this person is not only losing the livestock, he's not moving, but his livestock is improving. So, then they start asking and my dad would say, "I don't know. Let me Let me consult with my daughter." But eventually, he's like, "Ah, nimechoka. Just tell them." So, I'll tell them and say, "There's no magic. Just paddock. Once you paddock, if you can cut The cutting is still a headache up to now. They don't want to do the cutting. I still They still don't believe in feeding from stores. But if you can condone this area, uh we always say a minimum of 10 acres. Uh if you can condone this area, 10% 20 will be good, but 10 is it's it's a good number. Uh if you can condone this area, and

13:35 then during the drought, we now start doing uh controlled feeding. So, you open the 10, they start coming in and coming in. And by the time we are done, the rainfall will have started. And that's just exactly what we did. Okay. So, you you When do you make the call that I'm done with the my refugee world? Of course, the more you immerse yourself in something and and that's what I'm hearing from you, solving for the grass and then paddock king and doing the research, the more you get. So, when do you make the call and say this thing is worthy of me making it my full-time my full-time gig? Mhm. So, between then I I will then the livestock will be very good. And then there's a gentleman who will come and take this livestock. I met him through a mutual friend. He's like, "Oh, you can manage to have good livestock throughout the year?" I said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah."

14:33 He said, "Okay. So, I'll be coming with to take them." He was slaughtering them to to butcheries in Nairobi. And during COVID I will say during COVID, I don't know what happened to the gentleman, but he then decided to go back. He was Kenyan, but I think had was a US citizen. He said to go back to the US. But as he was going, George tells me, "Rian, you have a very good product, but I think for you to win this market, you need to be the whole value chain of the meat. Why? Because you have very good meat, but unless you're very careful, it will be lost at point of slaughter." I was like, "Hmm, interesting." Okay. So, anyway, George leaves and leaves us with a lot of livestock. However, blessing in disguise, the livestock market are closed because of the distancing. So, people now are aware that there's a farm that has cows because you know, the issue is not

15:24 having cows. Everyone has cattle. The issue is are you releasing them to the market? Because Masais have cattle, but they don't release them to the market. So, they are told they are told there's a farm that has cattle and they're releasing them to the market. And then that now started the education as well because the livestock market is a cash-based market. You don't
[snorts]
They don't pay using anything. So, you start training them that please don't come with cash home. Uh use this use this. Uh So, they started taking the livestock. But I remember I remember thinking, "It's true actually. If you compare At that time, George had taken me to where he used to One of the butcheries that he supplied our meat. At that time, I think a kilo of meat in a regular butchery was going for about 400

16:05 500. But when I went there, I bought it at 900. So, if you calculate backwards, you realize it's true what he was saying. We need to be in the whole value chain of livestock. So, we started now just calling again the same neighbors that were interested in in in in doing paddocking, we started aggregating. And I came to Nairobi as I looking for markets. Then the challenge came was that we were using a community slaughterhouse. Still the patriarchal societies that you come from Nairobi, you have a bit of knowledge of what is expected of hygiene standards, licenses. So, you go and try and bring that in the community lives in the community slaughterhouse, they are thinking there's something wrong. That again, I think because of conversation I met a lady who then was willing to take our products, but she couldn't allow us to slaughter Yes. She said to me, "I think you're

17:00 overthinking. Why don't you think of building a slaughterhouse?" I'm like, "I In my mind, I thought the grand slaughterhouse. That time, of course, no one was Before then, I knew WB. No one was doing that in Kenya. That the whole value chain. So, I started again University of YouTube, researched, and realized, "Oh, you could do a a modular slaughterhouse." And and I spoke to the county people. They're like, "Yeah, we will license it." And that's how we now built this slaughterhouse.
say modular, what what what capacity to slaughter how many animals per per day or Per day, uh 100 goats and 20 cattle. Okay. Okay.
[clears throat]
Yeah, that's a nice size.
Yeah, they call it a slab. Yes. Yeah, that's why it's called a In In classification, they call it a slab. Is slab an acronym for something?

17:49
No, no. That's how That's how they classify. Slaughterhouse less less than 50 less than 100 cattle, slab.
Yes. Okay. Above 100 cattle, slaughterhouse. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. You learn something new every day.
Yes. So, so we now started doing our own slaughter. And now also we are Now we are in the whole value chain. And so, that's that's name now when I decided I can't do these two things. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. After you put up the slaughterhouse? No, actually before. But now we started now We now started processing the meat livestock into meat. I just realized this one these two can't work. And um And I keep telling people for for a whole one year, I kept lying to my mom that my contract has not been renewed because there's no way I was going to tell them I have left work to care. Yeah, I I said What would have the What would the What was the reaction you feared by telling them that you have left work to focus on First of all, remember we associate livestock with people who have not gone to school. In in People who have no money, people who Livestock is

18:56 it's for us it's um It's a source of pride. It's culture. We pay dowry livestock.
Yes. Do you know that even the clans in Masai use livestock use cows use the color of cows. We have two main clans regardless of whether you are Masai from Tanzania or Kenya. The two two cows. We swear by cows. Our So, everything our identity is around cows. So, there's no You don't then see the profit around cows. They just are. They just are. They're just alive. Yes. Because if you have many cows, you're a rich man. Yeah, if you have If you have So, you're able to give, you're able to receive. So, it's just basically cows. That's just how they are. So, when I left now, I couldn't tell them. I just uh I couldn't because my my dad actually I think now 2 years is 2 years now is when my dad can proudly say what I do because he used to say, "Doesn't tell me anything." What? daughter of mine.

19:54
Yes. At some point I remember I took him to one burial and he said Wow. That's is the best you could describe. Now I Now he proudly
Now he proudly says I think he's saying he's saying that Let me tell you before Yeah. Before I even used to never enjoyed being taking him somewhere.
Wow. Okay. So you you're you're in the value chain. So you're you're a great person I guess for us to to to speak to because one of the things I say to the average Kenyan is that they tend to be blind to what happens behind the scenes. You know, people go to a butchery and say nipimmie kilo and they they cut they fungua they go home.
home. Or people meet up and say and cut here mbavu or miguu chome you know we have some drinks and some nyama Yeah, enjoy enjoy. But very few people take time to go back into the value chain. Now clearly you you must be doing something right for the pride from your father to to return in you as a as a as a as a livestock rancher a lawyer turned livestock rancher. So maybe just tell us your views about the value chain. What have

21:13 you seen? What have you learned? Contextualize for the audience the opportunity that made you leave a thriving career to actually focus on this full time. Yeah. My father used to say my father always comes up in my conversations a lot. Thank Okay, that's not thankfully that my mom is deceased twice so I always feel like if she was now I think she will be catching feelings. So my father used to tell us that watu wa Nairobi wanakula punda. Oh wow. And for that reason I promise you my relatives and I do not eat meat in Nairobi. Even before I got into the meat industry Bulu used to have a cooler box. So whoever goes to the village come with meat. And then we'll chop it and share it among us. And I understand why my dad says that because I have seen how meats the quality of meat can be lost between slaughter and transport. Let me use the common way it's when I

22:11 always say there's good meat leaving either Sultan Hamud slaughterhouse or Bissil slaughterhouse because generally the Maasai still keep animal wealth we still adhere to the grass-fed we have a we don't we don't interfere a lot with it. The only thing we don't do is we don't condition and that's now where we come in because we condition before slaughtering. We make sure that 30 to 120 days before slaughtering You prime them.
We prime them. But remember when the when the meat leaves the slaughterhouse in Sultan Hamud or in Bissil how does it leave? From someone from the slaughterhouse to someone's shoulder to the pickup the pickups then we they then come let's say to Burma because that's the wholesale for meat and it's moved again from someone's shoulder to somewhere. And the way meat should be that I have learned is that it needs to have a

23:03 regulated temperature. So you see for us when you slaughter it goes we can tell you across the supply chain how many people have handled this meat. And then and we see also it's education because even in the butchery the way they are hanging the meat it's good to hang the meat but for outside it should have at least some regulated temperatures. But what happens once it's hung in the butchery it goes back to the freezer not a chiller and then comes out. Why? Because whoever introduced butcheries in Kenya is by we sell by sight. So you keep saying. But what you are doing to that meat is one you are spoiling the quality but two you're introducing a lot of bacteria to that meat. So what what happens is the few people who do that is we put it in a chiller not more than 7 days because we are not we are not aging it yet. And from there when it comes it comes into the

23:57 processing room where the butcher cuts and packs same temperature same temperature is it's minus two to minus four we still maintain it so there's a lot of ACs. And then once it's cut it's then vacuum sealed and go to the freezer or to the chiller. So even the way it's transported so you're still maintaining the temperature. And when it comes to you it should come to you in a package that one is vacuum sealed so you've removed the air so that it's able to to remove all the bacteria so there's no air around it for bacteria multiplication but also so that whatever package if you and that's a thing and I think that's what now sometimes even differentiate the people who are doing it. We need to understand what is your consumption like. If it's a kilo then it's packed in a kilo that when it go to the freezer you don't remove and defrost it again. It's just remove the 1 kilo and use it

24:47 so you don't keep taking it back to the freezer because that's where you are missing the quality and that's where you are missing now you're introducing a lot of micro microbes the the bacteria. Yeah. Okay.
[clears throat]
Now let's speak about breeds. Breeds yes. Uh because we've had someone talk about livestock. Livestock has actually proved like I was telling you earlier to be a very popular topic on our podcast. Um and someone who was speaking about sheep was made a comment and he says it all starts with genetics. True. Uh if you don't have good genetics in your cattle you could be playing a losing game. Yeah. So maybe tell us a bit about your genetics. What genetics do you have on the farm? Have you been on a journey of improving genetics learning about genetics simply because you're coming I think you'll be an inspiration for people who are coming from another industry and are now choosing to because they have the land to focus small on ranch. Yeah. It's true it starts with genetics because even for it is to convert into meat you have to have good genetics. So when we started

26:01 the ranch we had one of the things that you need to understand is that we have very good breeds it's just that I don't know how we allowed it because the Borana for example is is from Kenya. Yes. And now we are buying it as an exotic breed from South Africa.
Yes. So what happens is what we did is we started with this breed that we had we have three livestock in our farm we have the goats uh the sheep and the cows I'll just walk you through what breed each is. So when we started we had the East African goat uh which is the normal East African small goat. But then there was a better breed that was introduced by the government it's called the Gala goat in in my culture we call it Siyolo because I think it came from Isiolo. So we had that and what we did first we just started by improving the East African goat uh crossbreeding it with the Gala goat. Why? The Gala puts on better weight also their height and East African goat is very drought resistant. So once we mastered that we then were able to bring bucks from South Africa. We have the Boer The Boer goat. Yes and the Savannah and now we just brought the red color hairy.

27:06 Why? Because they put in better muscle but the the original breed of the East African goat and the Gala goat are very drought resistant. They also are very easy to manage because for like for example I saw one of your guests was saying that and which is true for the Dorper they need to be dewormed regularly. But the goats once you deworm them once the the East African goat and the Gala goat then it's easy for you to manage. So that's what we have as goats. For sheep we started with the red Maasai sheep very good in flavor but puts on very little weight and then we crossbred it with a Dorper. Okay. So now the Dorper brings the weight the red Maasai sheep brings a very distinct flavor but also the drought resistant and the disease resistant. Okay. For the cows we do the two and now we've just introduced the Brahman. We do the Borana and then

27:56 there's the red one that most Maasais from Kajiado are known for it's called the Sahiwal. Sahiwal very dual purpose gives both milk very beautiful Very beautiful. very beautiful in fact in fact such a beautiful cow. Yeah. So the the Sahiwals and then we now have the Borana. Borana actually put on very good weight in the feedlot but also their meat because we are we maintain the grass-fed and the grass-finished practices their meat actually becomes very tender and very marbled compared to the Sahiwal. Okay. And then now we've just introduced the Brahman. So that's those are those are the breeds we have. So we've and then now what we did is for the people that's now how to encourage them to become sustainable. For the people who accepted to paddock the the the lands what we do is we give them what is called we do a rotational back rotational. You know a buck can service up to 50 50

28:46 goats or 50 whatever so what we do is we then now just take it round. Okay.
So For your neighbors who have paddocked like you and you are aggregating and you've agreed that
use the buck so you're you're enhancing their genetics also in the process. Yeah. Yeah and what we've done is that we've also given them free access to our vets so when like now we normally do vaccinations on the onset of rain and on the onset of drought so we do for them all of them because it's not it's it's just incentive for you to not move. I always say we are encouraging them not to move from one place to another but we just move from one acre to another. Yeah so so that's now what we do. Uh hopefully we'll be able to do the bulls bulls tend to be quite expensive so now seeing also and also the gestation period of a cow is a bit longer than the small the small livestock. So then that's that's that will should be our next frontier to now do bull rotation. So let's speak about you've you've walked us through the gene the gene the genetics that you have on farm. But

29:48 maybe let's speak about uh both vet services and the genetic services because this is a science, right? So, how did you learn it? Did you uh do you work with professionals? You said you've mentioned that you have vets on on your ranch. So, maybe walk us through that scientific animal care or animal husbandry piece uh from both the genetics part for the breeding and also for the care of the animals. How how do you deal with it? You'll be surprised uh when we started when we were looking for a vet, you couldn't get So, I I don't remember the like but vets are classified differently but most of them are just practitioners and then there's one that I call vet surgeons.
Yes. And we for for a long time we couldn't find them. In fact, what we people used to use and people still use that is the agrovet people who now acts as vet and that also explain the rampant use of antibiotics. You know, antibiotics should not be an over-the-counter medicine. Yes. Because when the withdrawal The Veterinary Act of Kenya stipulates, I think 28 days before it becomes meat, before it becomes milk. But with the pastoralists, no. No. So,

30:58 what we do is we just tried looking uh for a veterinary. We couldn't find one. So, what it meant is we needed we needed to import them from as far as Kitengela. Okay. So, what they when they when you get that, they you come up with a schedule a vaccination schedule a deworming schedule. Just come with a routine so that the the vets that we have in in the area surprisingly even the Masai children I don't know why they don't want to do anything to do with livestock. That's how much we Oh, really? Yeah. So, they are running away. So, now when we have these ones who are I don't know what they call them. They're not vets as per se but they have some licenses. It's now for us to train. Okay. And then you'll be surprised at how much is available in the government if you went to ask. Okay. Like the genetics how for example we learned is one day we just drove every KALRO has

31:52 a genetic department. So, you just walk in and ask and then from there they say, "Okay." Because our nearest is Kiboko. Kiboko says, "We don't know we don't know much about genetics but speak to this person who is in KALRO, the one in Nairobi and he will walk you through that." So, it was very easy. But also the beauty about genetics especially around the sheep and the goats the the people who already had mastered it and were actually certified breeders. So, it was easy for you to get them from them and just maintain. So, that's just how you do. You go Let me tell you, these things you just learn online and then you decide, "Okay, what is the worst that can happen? Let me walk to a government agency and ask them." And KALRO have surprising have a lot of information. They even have a genetic department

32:37
Yes. that have artificial insemination. It's a thing we've been toying around which we need to do. Yeah. Because it's cheaper than to buy a bull but they are there. It's just that the information is not out there and also I think also the I think I'm told there used to be extension officer during our parents' time. Maybe that's what we need to introduce back. Yeah.
Yeah. Wow. I mean, you um let's speak a bit about your aggregation. So, how many you you when you when you invest in a slaughterhouse, yeah? Um and you you you you slab as I've learned to Yeah, you say you can do a hundred um small and uh 20. That's a lot of animals. So, in order to make that slaughterhouse viable the supply chain of um maybe let's speak about your aggregation, how you have aggregated, how I I really like what I really like

33:37 about your story is how you have shared the knowledge and thus building the community as you grow and develop yourself. So, tell us about how many how many other farmers you have and how that journey of aggregating has been for you. I I would say I'm a child of the community so it's good to give back because yes, those cows that my father said we wasted are the ones that took us to school. So, what you do is we approach a family because we we are still very communal in my culture and we educate and show them the benefit of us being part of them. Why? Because no matter the drought, no matter what Let me tell you, the livestock market is such an emotional market that sometimes I wonder uh why? Because during the drought even when you have so good quality livestock the price will still be low. If cows are going for 20K, no whether you have it or not, you might not fetch

34:32 a lot of a lot of money. So, what we do is we train and show them the importance is that we are able to provide good prices regardless of the weather patterns. The other thing also how we encourage is that during the drought we do what is called a community off-take feedlots. So, we off-take so that now we also are able to manage the quality. So, what happens is once you also have our back, we know that you have about let's say 20 that you because sometimes there's also the willingness for them to release it to market. So, we have aggregated a few people I know this one has 20, this one has 20, this one has 20 and they will be ready in January. Uh from another family will be ready in February. Another ready Another farmer will be ready in March. But if you are ready in January even if we have our quota filled, what we'll do is we'll just take them because

35:22 we always have apart from the few that have really undergone our training and have accepted because the issue is not about uh going through the training. The issue is also accepting. Those who have accepted are the only animals we pick and slaughter immediately. The rest have to go to our to our farm for at least 30 days of observation. Because sometimes that's Generally, that's what the Veterinary Act 38 days. Yes. So, we just take them there. However, what we do is the those ones that we know they they are they they practice these, they are honest about it. So, those ones can directly go to the slaughterhouse. Okay. The other thing also we've done is that there are there are people who feel like maybe they need to slaughter for themselves. So, we give them the facility to use. Why? When you use the facility, then they can take advantage of all our licenses which are very They don't They

36:10 are slaughterhouses around that area don't have a lot of the licenses. So, you can use especially the halal uh we they don't see why they need to have it but it's a a need now in the food industry so they can use that. So, what we do is just have them in numbers and know so-and-so has 20 ready in January and we just space it out. And then now what happened is sometimes because they know they know that you buy them in bulk, farmers now knows that like last week when I was leaving, if they're in distress, they know that They can come to you. And sometimes I have had to place where I'm asking, "What is the distress? Do we really Do you really have to sell your stock? Or can we wait on? Some has been maybe it's it's a loved one that is unwell. Can we pay? And we have And you know, those with the community we don't have agreements. We have gentlemen's agreements. So, it's called it comes

37:01 here it comes here of Kijiji chief. Uh this guy needs this amount of money but I don't think these animals are ready for slaughter. He's just going to get a bad price in the market. Let them stay. This month we will be able to start harvesting them for slaughter. Okay.
[clears throat]
Very interesting model. Now, at Ten Rain you said you have your slaughterhouse and so let's let's cross over the other side to the supply. Um you're slaughtering and selling to who? Who are you because I can tell you from my experience in the restaurant trade, that consistency of quality meat is a problem. It comes as a shock and a surprise to many many Kenyans but when you buying in the volumes or you're selling,

37:47 you know, and we're now seeing on the restaurant side we are seeing huge brands emerging. You know, Java with over a hundred, Artcaffe in the sixties. You know, Simbisa over a hundred, you know, and other smaller ones in between. So, the demand for off-take now those we in the HORECA space need some kind of consistency. Then you have the Naivas's of this world over a hundred stores. Carrefour is coming. Uh FoodPlus is there. Quickmart and so on. So maybe tell us about your supply side. Who um those numbers that you gave us a hundred and twenty, a hundred for small ruminants. Who are the off-takers of your supply? Surprisingly, the the people who we have as consistent off-takers are people who bought our meat during the drought season. Right now when we are going to pitch to you to restaurants they're like, "Uh why should we buy?" Because we also don't come in cheap. I need to accept because

38:49 first we normally look for a person who is Is he looking for traceable meat? So, that's Is he Is he looking for that? Is for consistent quality throughout? Because the the issue is And there was a time we had tried to partner with a certain butchery and this butchery during the rainy season will pick livestock from anywhere because the price is cheaper. Okay. So, what happens is most of the times we look for First of all, what have what we have tried to do is we've tried to go into households. Why? Because we have the meat industry has always looked like the premier meat is for restaurants and not individuals. So, you've gone direct to consumers.
Yes. So, we have direct we sell direct to consumers.

39:27
Nice. Yeah. So, you people go online, they order and we deliver to them to their households. As long as a minimum of 3 kilos, maximum of whatever kilos you want. So, that's what we've done. Two is we approached butcheries especially off-takers that their clients will be looking for Quality.
traceable meat that is consistent throughout the year. So, those are the ones we approach. We've now also started approaching restaurants that will want that. What I've come to realize the issue with some restaurants is that sometimes they will want a certain cut and that cut only. So, that what what happened and because now we've gotten we've crafted our craft that we now have our up to the way class is classified our premium

40:08 carcass starts from 250 kilos.
So, what happened if you only want a T-bone? What happened to the rest of the meat?
Agreed. So, normally what we do is we approach also a lot of off-takers that will want a carcass cuz that also is then makes it easier for us and we continue to then just make sure that people most of the time we've had when people do the farm visit they tend normally to to to on-board us because you can see the traceability of it. You can also are able to have the peace of mind and Kenyans are really becoming health-conscious consumers. So, what we've seen is that the people who now want to partner with us are the people that serve health-conscious consumers. Mhm. Oh, wow. I love it. Um Do you see yourself building a brand? We are building a brand.

40:56
butchery brand because that that seems like you started by saying that you want to be in the entire value chain. That seems to In essence, you already kind of have a butchery brand because if you're supplying online and I can go and pick my my cuts and and order from you. You already do, but do you see you extending that into a physical store? That's the issue. We In fact, we've been toying with this idea with with my team whether we need to open a physical store. But the issue is we need to educate. Mhm. Because you see if you come to a physical store, you might not find hung meat. Mhm. So, we are thinking is there a way to have a transparent chiller. So, that when you come you see them through the cold room. Yes. The issue for me around the the physical store is that there need to be a lot of education to consumers to realize that meat necessarily that is hanging there is not

41:47 the best meat. Great. Because a carcass we need to hang it for 7 days. Once it's the meat once the muscle has converted into meat, we need to cut it and and freeze it now because after that it's aging. And actually Kenyans still don't appreciate aged meat. Mhm. Uh we tried giving people samples in December. We're trying to learn something about aging and people kept saying that's meat that has gone bad. I'm like, "No, [laughter] it's aged meat." Mhm. So, for us the physical I'm not saying no to a physical uh shop. What I'm saying is the first way I think we need to educate.
Okay. And then so that Actually, I'd rather have a place where people just come and pick rather than come and buy because you see that hanging for me I still have an issue with that. Yes. Because Which is the norm. Which is the norm. So, that's the thing. Yeah, so I feel like as you continue to serve households and now they know that we don't have to come and say any cut here up here, you can just come and say T-bones and we

42:40 give you is where we will do. Yeah. Okay. Mhm. [clears throat] Excellent. So, let's let's speak about the future. Mhm. Where where where does this journey Where do you see uh this journey taking you? I I I always say that where I want to be is that that we that my culture my community continue doing livestock, but doing it sustainably and profitably. Because the reason why right now there's a lot of rampant land sale Sorry, I mean people are coming to buy land in Kajiado. The reason why there's rampant land sale and we are selling our inheritance is because we have not understood how much that land can give us. The value of the
you correlate the land and the livestock and the how much it can give us, then we can continue to maintain culture. Because the thing about uh outside investment always brings watering down of the culture and we can continue to continue to become stewards and and and stewards of the land that we have and steward of the livestock that we have. So, in fact, what I've been telling the team that I work with is you guys need

43:44 to figure out these things quickly the business bit so that I can go back and train. I also want still pushing the envelope that I feel like if we brought more women on board, pastoral women to be precise, I feel like this can be more sustainable cuz the women really just understands it. It's just that cuz the men are still doing it for customarily and pride issues. So, that's what I would want to do. In fact, we have a vision that uh but at least in the next 10 years we have at least 1,000 acres under pasture. Okay. Mhm. So, 1,000 means just everyone doing 10% which is 20 acres cuz the minimum land uh ownership is 200 acres. Others have to 1,000, but we just use that so that we now have enough Working backwards, we have pasture and we have water. So, we're doing a lot of water rainwater collection. We're doing a lot of pasture. And then there now you can

44:38 be able to aggregate as a big block and now it becomes See the way coffee pays people dividends? That's what I always I look when I think about livestock and my community. It now becomes profitable and it can be something that can be enjoyed by all generations. Yes.
Yeah. Wow. Hey, okay. You've you've brought in another topic there at the end that I I want us to talk about before before we wrap up. Yeah. And you've brought in about about how you're curating You're in essence curating your culture uh by showing people greater value in their land. Mhm. Um And this this thing of the shop is still sitting with me, but online still works. So, [laughter] how how how does how how is this journey now of branding

45:30 um and the formal part of the business, you know, have you found any challenges with funding, financing, um you know, or is this is this an entirely self-funded initiative? First of all for you to run the premium meat business, there are a lot of machinery that are involved. You know, I used to think building the slab was the hardest.
Yes. Getting the machinery is what they're hardest. The cold room, the vacuum sealers, the I'm thinking uh I have perhaps a lot of respect. I've seen few supermarkets now that have started introducing cold rooms and vacuum sealing and I'm like, I know what that cost and I have so much respect for you. So, one of the things that um that happened is we quickly were able to We see I always say I I trained as a lawyer and I trained as a

46:22 refugee lawyer. So, I didn't know what business was. So, when I decided this is what I was going to do, I immersed myself in learning in business learning. Thankfully, that has come with a few grants here and there and that has really really really assisted us in having our machineries. Okay. Uh we then go to one uh foreign investor that now invested in what is called a revenue-based agreement. But that is how it happens because generally the ranching is such a capital-intensive market. So, what we Sometimes you find the growth is slower because we keep plowing back. We keep plowing back and and that's what we do for now as we are growing. Yeah. Okay. Mhm. And you're making progress and you're growing. That is that really is an interesting story. There's one question that I'm trying to pull out that I seem to have forgotten. Is it the culture? Uh no, the culture I I think the culture

47:16 bit you have you have addressed. Oh, yes. So, now how how how are the wazees? That would be interesting as we draw to the end. How are the wazees? How do they look at you now that they probably it's 4 years in, you know, they're seeing they're seeing the benefits of what you're doing. So, how is the how is the reaction? How is your father? My father is my father is a very proud man now.
Yeah. Uh I I the where the processing center is is not bought land. It's land that I use in trust. His land. Yes, his land. I use in trust. I think when one of the things that you do when they are always happy with me until they see when I'm going to slaughter the good animals. Mhm. In fact, one of them told me, "You know, in my culture you you you can't you can't slaughter all the animals." And I'm like, "No, these ones were ready for

48:01 slaughter." Mhm. They're really picking up. Uh what we're trying What I'm trying to do right now is to have the young You know what happened with um us this formal education is there cultural practices that we removed, but we didn't replace them. So, it left a vacuum.
The Moranism. Mhm. The Moranism gave gave a lot of purpose to the
and direction to the young men, but we removed them and we didn't give them anything. So, there's a vacuum. So, now what we're trying to do is we're trying to use the old men to see whether they can encourage the young men to do livestock as well. But the young men they they old men are happy. We now have some uh respect around it and you can now at least it's really it's come a long way. I can make decisions around cows and

48:41 they trust my judgment.
yeah. They trust also that I'm able to bargain and uh assign a price to it. Previously, it used to be I had to send a male counterpart to go uh bargain and then I come at the payment. They have They're okay now. Let me tell you the first time I used to go to the livestock market and I would go with I have a very big hat because of the sun and a water bottle. They they used to tell me just go to the car. When we are done, we'll call you. Now we go and we Even if I'm not buying, I'm just there and we are talking talking about breeds. So, the old men have really now warmed up to the idea.
Mhm. Uh we still have You know, we still have age sets. The ones that now who are called my husbands now the age my age set are still apprehensive about it, but they'll get there. Yeah. And so, it's just it it's one step at a time and one one member at a time. Wow. Mhm. What a fabulous story, uh Reeyan. I think I've really enjoyed that conversation. I think I'll now give you a chance to just speak to the audience and tell them

49:44 where they can find you. Um, I'm sure you'll inspire many. Um, and those that want to not just buy your meat, of course it's great if they do. You've got a customer in me today. I'll go to your website and start buying meat from you. But, um, those who want to find you, what are your social media handles? Where can you be found? And and and anyone who maybe wants to learn from you, visit [snorts] your your ranch, uh, where can you be found? For for for the ranch, you can find us in all the social media platform. We are in Nilotic Woods. And for my own platform, on Instagram I call myself Harding in Hills. Oh, wow. Nice. So, you can find me in those. Uh, we take in I think now we are fully booked for April and May we allow you to come visit, see what what goes around. We also encourage a lot men, come with your sons and spend the day and slaughter. You know our kids now don't know where what

50:42 is nyama. They just see ready nyama at home. So, for the men to come and spend time and even just take part even in the slaughtering of the animal and the children are able to see where the meat comes from. So, you can find us in all our socials, that's Nilotic Woods. For my own social is Harding_in_Hills. Excellent. What a fabulous fabulous conversation. I really look forward to looking more into your brand and what you Congratulations. That that that's quite a great space to be in. I say that as Kenyans and maybe Africans, we need to pay more credence to where our food comes from. How our food is prepared, how it gets to our tables. Um, there's even before we get to meat, there's a there's a conversation that needs to be had about where our vegetables come from. How they are irrigated, where they are irrigated. And and and I think that there's no

51:33 better I have found that um, I I I say to many people that um, my time in the restaurant industry has taught me that the front is great at formalizing the back. In the sense that if the customer becomes more informed and demands better, then the businessman will have to do better. Because they want to sell to the customer. So, [clears throat] even that area you're you're talking about about where our meat comes from, how we sell our meat. How when you can when you can speak to farm to fork, you know, that's an excellent. But, I'm also really inspired by your community story. And how you've chosen to take the people with you and spread that knowledge, which is wealth. You know, and and and and prevent people enabling your community to live contextually in the now. You know, because people have from time immemorial, we've all seen them, the cows walking through Nairobi when

52:35
[laughter]
everyone angry traffic because the cows are crossing
[laughter]
Exactly. And so, now the fact that you have found a solution to that and you're teaching people how is really commendable. So, thank you very much for the work that you continue to do. And we wish you all the very best. Ladies and gentlemen, that was episode 61 of The African Do Podcast. What a fabulous story of African livestock rearing, growth development, community engagement, aggregation, knowledge sharing, so many topics that we have covered in this episode. Thank you very much for joining us. Please do subscribe subscribe to our YouTube channel where we we share all our shows and follow us, share it with a friend, and let's keep talking about excellent Africans executing excellently. Thank you very much.