Sam Wanyoike — transcript

All My Laundry

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:05 Greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 72 of the African Do podcast. Today we're very privileged to have with us Sam Wu of All My Laundry. Sam, welcome to the African.
Thank you very much, L.
Excellent. So laundry has has always been a part of of our Kenyan existence. Um, but before we get into the nuts and bolts of laundry, [clears throat]
maybe let's understand Sam the Sam the man.
Uh, maybe tell us where where you're from, how you grew up,
and then we'll segue into the the laundry business.
All right. Thank you. Uh, thank you, Leonard. Uh, it's a delight and pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. So, Samo is u your typical Kenyan. I am uh I'm the last of four siblings. Um born and mostly raised here in uh Nairobi. Uh I trained in school as an accountant, as a finance professional.

1:07
I [laughter] know.
Yes.
Yeah.
Um so that's that was my that was my background. Uh I did work briefly as an accountant all of uh maybe five years uh before uh trying out this as a side hustle. Okay. Which is the laundry the laundry business.
Uh I founded it with my my co-founder his name is Robert. Uh that was back in 2004.
Okay.
Uh when in corporating companies it was a legal requirement for you to have at least two directors.
Yes.
Uh unlike the Yeah. Nowadays that has changed. M
so that's how the journey started and we quickly appreciated that um this was becoming very hard to handle as a side hustle
and it it quickly picked and became the thing that we would want to focus on. So that was

1:58
so what what did it start us what what did it start us in those early days? Yeah.
It started Leonard as an agency what people would call a brokerage. We were basically brokering the
Mhm. uh we did not have the resources to to to to put up our own infrastructure in terms of equipment in terms of location. Uh we didn't have the clientele for that. So we would just call you and say hi Leonard I got your number from uh Dan or somebody who is known to you.
And we ran it the same way the our insurance friends run it purely on referral.
Uh and based on that we were able to grow a tiny base of customers. We did it from the second floor of an office uh 100% telemarketing.
So we'd come to your place either your home or your office. Yes.

2:42
We'd pick up your laundry
and then we'd outsource it.
Okay.
To a third party in this case established cleaners. So think about your North Hotel back in the day. Think about White Rose.
Those are people we had extremely strong relationships with.
Okay. Okay.
And he did not stop at laundry. We went the whole the whole length of cleaning. Meaning if you if you went if you went ahead and asked us for carpet cleaning, upholstery cleaning,
you would pick them up.
You would still come and and outsource the work to a third party.
Okay.
So those were the early beginnings. Yeah. That's how it started.
Okay.
And at what point did you discover that this thing you said that you discovered that this thing has become too much to be a side hustle.

3:21
How far along were you in that journey when you made that discovery?
This was around the period this must have been between year one and year two. Okay.
Because um for starters between myself and my co-founder, we had hired one person to handle the telephone
to steal the fixed telephone in the in the in the office
and we would see the requests coming in
and became it became difficult. My co-founder had exited employment. So he had a little bit more time investment but I was still employed.
Um so between year one and year two it became clear that um this thing actually is was demanding of more time. uh and at that point I started thinking how will this work but of course this is laundry which has a very slow learning curve.

4:05
Yes.
Which has a slow uh journey to profitability.
Uh yet I was hired in finance. I was previously working in finance. So I had to make the call. Uh so to your question it was between year one and year two.
Okay.
Yeah. 2004 thereabout.
How does that call look like? because it's it's a it's it's it's a thing that many an entrepreneur grapples with. You know, you're you're you have a fixed salary. You're in your there's a comfort to it, you know, and now you're making a call. You you you're probably beginning to see the potential of these things that you'd invested time in and now you have to make a call and the call is not as simple as it sounds because uh you have some commitments, I'm sure. And how did that look like for you? I mean you said it commitments. Uh it was a time when my firstborn daughter had just been born.

4:58
Um and I get that question a lot especially for from people who are in corporate and and wondering what does that unknown space look like and what if all these uh projections that I'm putting on my business plan do not pan out.
So it was scary. I think that's the word that's that's the best way I would describe it. It it was scary. uh you don't you don't put your CV too far away. You just keep it uh within touching distance and just see how far you're able to stretch uh this bet because it's a bet. It's a gamble.
Yes.
Um but fortunately within the first the first one or two years you see the month-on-month growth. You see the yearon-year growth. It was also it also coincided with the time when the Kbaki regime had kicked in.

5:42
Yes. So it it was a time when I would say it was a relatively good time for for entrepreneurs
who are focused on what it is that they want to achieve. So we just kept at it and it slowly but organically made sense.
Okay.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So maybe we can also speak about what the business benefited from by you now coming full-time.
Okay.
Uh what what changes did you see? what were, you know, aha moments that now that you're a full-time and maybe just clarify for us, are you still a broker or has anything changed by the time you now transition full-time into the business?
So, to your first question, um I would say more time means uh more more detailed appreciation of the nuance that this customer needs.

6:35
I was able to now like totally appreciate what's the taste and preference of this laundry customer.
Laundry is broad. You can go into retail, you can go into institutional, your Airbnbs and so on. You can also go into state and and county kind of um service provision. We focused on the retail. So I was able to really get into the detailed marketing, customer acquisition uh which which previously in my earlier role was not something I thought I had. I was a numbers guy.
Yes.
This put me uh front and center. Uh I mean it just put the customer front and center. I needed to know how to engage with them and how to get the messaging right. So that that time allowed me that opportunity.

7:16
To your to your
to your to your to your second question, I'm I'm losing the the the the train of thought. The second
the question was, are you still a brokerage?
I mean, are we still a brokerage? Indeed. Indeed, Leonard.
Yeah.
Um we were still picking up items and outsourcing them to third parties.
And that continued deep into the into the journey. Uh we founded we founded in we incorporated the company in 2004.
By 2007 we were still outsourcing.
Uh in 2007 happened to be when we now set up the first collection point.
Mhm.
Which was 100% uh outsourcing.
Yes.
It's a tiny 5t x 5 foot.
You're still collecting to outsource.
Collecting to outsource.
Somebody was generous enough to allow us uh some space in Upper Hill. If you're familiar with Marwood, there's the Upper Hill Springs Restaurant.

8:07
Yes. That's where we set up. So, one of the directors there was an old friend.
And
was it the space that's on the road that was right on the right on the perimeter?
Right on the perimeter next to me.
Was it a container or a small building?
Leonard, I know. I No, I know exactly what I think I've seen it. That's why I'm saying
today they have containers because we still maintain the location. Today they have a string of containers which have um which have uh clothes shops which have other things going on the car wash. But those days it was just us and a guy who used to do the shoe shining.
So it was a tiny 5 foot by 5 foot. If Leonard brought his suits and a second and third person

8:46
that shop is full.
Okay. Okay.
So you have to figure out how you're going [clears throat] to
collect them. Discharge. Yes. Um so that was location one still on the outsourcing uh model. Uh we tried a second one in u somewhere off Mombasa road in the South Sea area.
That one was a spectacular failure.
Yeah. Yeah.
I I I carried proudly that one in Yes.
That one was a total failure for for a whole array of reasons.
Uh still outsourcing.
And then the third one was in Milimmani. Okay.
That one was an instant uh I mean it took off instantly. It broke even I think by month four, month six it was covering its own overhead. And at that location three uh which was which had now which now brings us to about 2010 2011 that's when we started having serious conversations around what would our own infrastructure look like.

9:37
Nice. Okay.
So you're talking 6 years in.
Yeah.
That's when now we like said we we have the ability now to even approach a financial
and say look we have a track record. We we are banking everything we are making. You can see what we look like from a financial standpoint. uh and if we were to think about equipment, what would that look like,
we were also very clear around the kind of equipment we wanted given that we had outsourced to all these other bigger players, we had visibility on what they were using.
Yes.
And we had an idea of where the tech was going.
Yeah.
And and what that would mean in terms of economies of scale and even profitability.
Okay.
Uh the other piece about that is we wanted to deal directly with the equipment manufacturer. M

10:19
we did not want to go through a middle person
through brokers.
Yeah. Through brokers like like in our case.
So we reached out directly. Um and if you're thinking laundry, you want to think about some Italian players. There are some players who are German, a few Americans. A lot of them have over time taken their manufacturing to the far east to Asia
uh for obvious reason labor costs and all that. But the good brands at the time seemed to oscillate around Italy and Germany and that's what we went for.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Now let's speak about that journey because you're you're you have a lot of uh similarities to my professional life in laundry in the sense that the move to become an infrastructure owner is not a small one. You know your your your things don't come cheap. Yeah. So even though there's margin gain on that the the capital expenditure to go so let's let's dive a bit deeper into that journey of making the decision to go that route. Um what

11:19 when you did make that decision finally to to invest in your own equipment uh based on your knowledge. I like the way you went because you those those years from 2004 to to 20 from 2004 to 2010 six seven odd years. Yeah. Is a great learning and you have great data and that data is almost underestimated in terms of its value
100%.
But you now have it. So what does your then strategic business plan look like in that investment journey? What do you decide to buy? How does the staffing journey look like and and so on?
Okay.
Yeah.
Um yeah. So we get to that point where we we've built up all this traffic, all this customer traffic. And indeed, you're right. Uh that six, sevenyear run allowed us incredible insight into what these customers are looking for. uh most of which you will not typically get when when your customer comes through the door [clears throat]

12:15
uh or when you're doing some market research somewhere in a library. So we knew the brand of equipment we wanted to get in terms of the durability uh you needed equipment that would really stand the test of time. You want something that will take you 10, 15, 20 years.
And that's what we see in our industry.
Actually, when we are doing the training, which I hope maybe at some point we can get into when when we touch when we touching on training, we we use the analogy of the motor vehicle.
Um what you invest in is what you take out.
So we were very clear about the the brand and also the capacity. We understood if you go for the 10 kilo 15 kilo yes you'll do the work but you not not you may not be able to achieve the economies of scale and the level of profitability that you might be interested in. So we we we we primarily started with the wet cleaning. The wet cleaning being the normal cleaning you and I know from the from the home.

13:10
Uh so we went for the equipment that would allow us to do that.
We went for uh the finishing or the pressing equipment uh but now at industrial scale. Yes,
a lot of this coming from from Italy.
Um, and then we ended up after a couple of years, we ended up now doing the the dry cleaning now for the delicates. So even in terms of outsourcing, we were shedding off progressively. So when we bring in a certain piece of equipment, we would tell the third party provider as from this point forward, we are now able to take care of this.
We're inside
internally. internally. Yeah.
But uh if you if if you could kindly continue supporting us in this role and because of the volume that we were sending their way, we were also able to attract very good rates in terms of the wholesale the wholesale packages would get from these people. And then somewhere between 2013 2015 we brought in the equipment necessary to just have our own in-house uh facility. And our model was such that you have this central cleaning place

14:12 with distributed collection points. Um so the customer is able to drop off their items at different points. Everything gets shipped in uh to the central uh facility and then the following day it's sent sent back and depending on the customer's preference it might be sent back to the branch for the customer to pick up or it might be sent back to Blendard's home depending on his preference and we proceeded on that basis. It was a period of rapid growth.
Yeah.
2014 all through 2019. Rapid growth at some point opening one, two locations a year.
Yeah.
We grew it to I want to say 14 locations by 2019. Then the pandemic hit.
Yep. Yep. The pandemic [laughter] and guys don't need suits to go to work.

15:01
Guys, you guys just decided to
We're just chilling at home.
A do over. I do over
maybe before we get into the nuance of the pandemic.
Yes.
Water is a crucial part of your business.
It is.
Um so how did uh water and its availability in a Nairobi context
inform your location selection? Yes.
For when you went with your own in-house equipment. Yeah.
Gotcha. Um water was not as much of a biggie as electricity.
Okay. Um the fortunate thing for us was water. We where we set up the first uh cleaning facility cuz that's not where we are currently. At some point we moved we moved to a bigger a bigger location. So initially we set up in Milimmani.
Mhm.
Unfortunately in Milimmani that's the same line that goes to the the house on the hill.

15:54
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Um so even when there's water outage it would really go for a couple of hours. Mhm.
Um what appeared to be a bit of a bottleneck was the power
because um we doing a lot of drying, we doing a lot of heating when you're pressing garments and so on and so forth and you want a transformer or a point of electricity that is able to carry that load.
Uh and unlike many other parts of the world whereies depend on other sources of power like solar and um and gas and and uh and uh and steam. Steam steam is a big one.
Uh we are we are mainly reliant on uh
electricity
on electricity. Yeah. On electricity. So so that that was a bit of a constraint especially when there's downtime. But we were also fortunate that we were housed inside a hotel that had a generator to which we could tap in.

16:47
Okay.
So it would slow us down when there's a power outage but it would not completely.
No it would not stop. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah.
Now 2020. Yeah. the year of the pandemic. I can speak to you about what it did to us in the restaurant and hospitality.
Hospitality, you know, you know,
but now it would be interesting to hear your nuance from a laundry perspective.
How was the pandmic?
I feel like I'm preaching to the choir. You guys were at the heart of it. Um, restaurants were at the heart of it. I mean, overnight guys were told shelter in place.
All of a sudden the dress code has changed. Leonard used to show up. If Leonard was a banker or a lawyer, he was showing up in suits. All of a sudden he's sitting behind a computer. Mhm.

17:27
He has his shirt. God knows what he has down here because he's in a he's on a Zoom he's on a Zoom call.
And that uh order basket in terms of the laundry order just dips overnight.
Um and and that was across the industry. It didn't matter whether you're you're doing retail or or institutional.
Leonard, I can tell you how I saw many friends get wiped out of of of business like overnight. Especially those who were whose who whose whose laundry businesses were solely geared towards institutional the ones who are doing service departments and restaurants. [clears throat]
Yes.
Um however even for us we said now in our case we said okay fine uh our our clientele has shifted in terms of the the the dressing but they're still wearing clothes. M

18:14
so as a as a service provider we needed to quickly figure out how do you pivot and how do you adapt to the new dispensation because the laundry basket I mean the clothes still going into the dirty laundry basket.
Yes. So how do you compete with with whatever other solution this client is using whether that is a mamafura
whether that is the domestic washing machine
how do you compete against that
and earlier on you had asked me about our our our HR our people metrics and that's where I think a lot of it came to bear okay
because now we started asking ourselves against the resources that we have how can we bring this cost down
it pushed us to think Leonard that's what I can It also pushed closer many things that we had been planning to do that we had not actualized. For example, going online.

19:03
Okay.
We we had a website but it was just a website.
Yeah.
Now we were put in a position where this website needs to move like a shop.
Okay.
Yes. It needs to act actively acquire customers, process them uh from the safety of their homes.
So it also pushed us to a nice space where we could move on that. M
it also pushed us to think around laundry in a deeper context.
Yeah.
By deeper I mean how can you take this very transactional experience turn it into something like a subscription.
Mhm.
Something that Leonard can do remotely without thinking about it on his phone hit a button and his clothes magically move from the laundry basket back into his closet. M
that led us to develop solutions like how do you clean by the bag? What if I made you an offer? Like in restaurants you have that all you can eat offer.

19:58
So we also had something like a bag that allows you to put different items within the bag
at one flat rate
and that's how we navigated the pandemic.
Some of those products picked up very quickly. Some of them are very popular to date.
Okay.
Um of course we had a little restructuring. It pushed back our footprint from 14 stores I want to say to 10 stores
and even our headcount it came down from we were north of 50 before the pandemic. Uh today we are just shy of 40. We in our mid30s. Okay. Yeah. So that was the effect of the pandemic. Yeah. And so the pandemic came and went and and and sometimes maybe we look at yes the pandemic was this monstrous thing that forced all of us to rethink our business models and all that but it also cames with with a lot of intense targeted

20:46 learning because we all had no choice but to
but to figure it out.
Correct. Yeah.
Correct.
So let's move now post pandemic. uh that's mid 2021 coming to date.
How did that journey look like? How did your website take off? How did the other initiatives that you came up with during the the pandemic? How did those impact your business?
I I am not sure if this was as a direct consequence of the pandemic, but there's something interesting that happened post pandemic that left all of us wondering what has changed.
We had a lot of people uh developing interest in this laundry business space. M every third block you would see you would see people opening up a laundromat. You would see people opening up uh you know just buying a small washing machine and setting up. So there was a lot of interest of people trying to solve the same problem for the consumer.

21:43
[clears throat]
uh still within that same point uh 2021 2022 we started getting customers who had been with us like ever since early 2000s all the way you you had somebody come and tell you um Sam I've used your brand um I've seen you guys grow if I have a nephew or a sister or a relative who would want to get into this space are you guys able to hold their hand
again coming out of the proliferation of that interest so we started I mean I would find myself setting aside a day. I I I I chat with somebody. I tell them, "You need to think about this with customer acquisition equipment. This is what you need to think about." But Leonard, over time, those requests became quite recurring
really.

22:29
And it became so recurring that now it got disruptive to our core our core work. Um, and as as we went along that stage or that chapter, we started asking ourselves, what would this look like if we put out a tool for other people to learn from?
Okay, because a lot of the people who are coming forward were saying, I'm struggling with customer acquisition. I'm struggling with uh picking out a profitable location and even when I'm ready to buy equipment, I don't know which equipment to invest in.
Okay. And quietly uh through the years I'd also harbored a selfish I I would say a selfish interest in teaching. I've always wanted to teach. Yes. Maybe that comes from
share that
my mom my mom's side of the of the family.

23:10
Yes. uh uh and and and I found myself investing more and more time to support that cause and that led us now to say can we use our knowledge our 20 plus years of learning to hold the hands of others who are trying to get into the industry and I want to say 70% of my time post post uh pandemic has been spent uh in building that
and you now have a fullyfledged teaching arm It's called
it's called Laundry Business Learning.
LB LBL. Excellent. Now, let's tell us about Laundry Business Learning.
Laundry Business Learning uh as I mentioned was an initiative born out of those inquiries that quickly snowballed.
Okay.
And became something that we felt cannot be ignored.
Yes.
We held our first workshop in February of 2024. Prior to that, we had just set up the website. I had recorded a few videos where I would talk about those buckets, location, equipment, HR,

24:14
uh specifically within the context of laundry uh and people would come in there and and and consume both free content and paid content. But come 2024 February, we held our first uh physical workshop.
Yes.
And the turnout was amazing.
Okay. So you had guys coming in from different places. You had owners coming in who had legacy businesses. They were trying to answer questions around how do I how do I bring in my family in terms of succession? I know you've had conversations around that space.
We had owners who were completely green trying to get into the space and since that time we've had a couple of workshops.
Initially we thought it would be an annual thing. We maybe hold it once a year maybe in February.

25:00
Yes. Lately we are having a cohort once every two months.
Oh wow.
Yes. So the last one we had was u we in the month of we're in the month of August. Yes. We had it first week of this of this month.
The previous one we had had it back in June.
And each time we have a full house that is trying to solve for all these problems. Um the June cohort had friends who came in from as far out as Kala.
Wow. uh uh these are people who already own their businesses but they want to take them to the next level and they want to learn from how other operators are doing their thing here. So that has been the evolution of of that platform and and it's it's a pretty interesting platform that that is

25:41
maybe let's let's let's leave uh your businesses and speak about that state of laundry in in Kenya in Nairobi. Um I actually found out recently that uh one my in my family one some one some of my uncles invested in the 50s late 50s early early 60s invested in a laundry business and this was still washing by hand and ironing with a charcoal iron. Yeah. So
do you know the brand?
It was called commercial
in Maria in that.
So it's quite interesting. Yeah. So one of my uncles was actually in in that in that business.
Interesting.
So so clearly there's been this relationship we've had with laundry services for a long time and it's now come full cycle. Uh but if you drive around Nairobi particularly when you see um the urbanization that is taking place um and even the investment that we're now seeing in in um in h affordable housing uh coming up countrywide. Yeah. Or even developers taking very structured routes. We're now getting to the stage like many uh I would say more

26:57 mature economies where uh people need centralized services and um Leonard Macharo Sabo who's been a guest on the podcast. Yes. The architect.
Yeah. been driving around his developments around Nairobi and one of the things that I've seen as is becoming a standard in each of his new development is the laundry person.
So people are now looking
so maybe tell us a bit about the state of laundry in in in this market. You've had a 20 plus year journey in it. You've seen it. You have you actually probably the one of the best people to comment on this because you started as a broker
and then you moved on into So tell us where is laundry now?
Laundry has grown Leonard. Um laundry has grown in leaps and bounds. Uh and of course this has been um accelerated by the more discerning consumer over time. uh like you've rightly alluded all these new infrastructural developments are coming with all manner of demands. You have somebody who will take up space in an apartment block and expect that this apartment block I'm actually I'm actually choosing to be here because it

28:10 comes with this bouquet
of services or or or or amenities that I don't have to worry about. So as I pay my my rent or my service charge, I want all these things to be taken care of. Unlike the traditional sense where you Leonard would have to set aside time at the end of the week and and also psychology at the back of his mind, he knows I'm dropping it off on Saturday and maybe somewhere on Wednesday I'll have to come back and pick it up. So we are seeing that completely going away and the the the the the today's customer wants uh a solution where I'll wear my clothes I'll place them at an agreed place a designated place whether that is the laundry basket whether that is a locker box outside my apartment like Savo

28:54
whatever that looks like
I want to place it there and I want for an affordable fee
to be able to get that problem solved for me in a most friction less way possible.
Yeah.
So, I like saying even when we engage with with with friends that tomorrow's laundry consumer wants their clothes to move from the laundry basket back into their closet magically.
So, if you if you hope to be successful in playing in that space, you need to figure out how can I how can I add value within that whole ecosystem. Yes. Um so, that's where I'm seeing this going. when you look outwards towards uh Europe um there's also a lot of awareness in terms of the chemical and the detergents that people are using um in the past you've heard stories around chemicals that are not very friendly to to the to the

29:44 consumer in terms of what spotters are being used what detergents are being used what softeners are being used and what that means in terms of the the physical the human health of the consumer so you're also seeing a lot of awareness so it's not unusual or uncommon for you to show up at a new client's place and they demand to know what chemical are you guys using? Uh what are you putting my clothes through? Are my clothes being isolated? Are they being disinfected? We are seeing a lot of aware awareness and a more discernment uh compared to what we were seeing 20 years ago. And then of course the level of sophistication in terms of the equipment, the processing equipment.
Um as as as early as 2014, 2015, I like to encourage entrepreneurs to invest in themselves. I remember making trips to attend trade shows and friends would ask me

30:33
where are you going
at your laundry trade show you guy what are you talking about
like we've been cleaning clothes since we were born what what what are you talking about
but when you go out there um and and the and and you see the skill the scope where the technology is at whether that is Asia whether that is Europe there there are big trade shows even in Vegas where a lot of these uh operators manufacturers come and they exhibit what is available uh as far as the laundry operator is concerned and you see equipment that is really good that is able to manipulate different things including things that we are being shown now in the form of AI
people have been working on those things for a very long time

31:16
so I I am I'm I'm I I suspect you'll see a lot of activity especially in the AI space uh people trying to see now as a laundry business how can I leverage uh this this emerging technology to take my business forward and to solve more problems for this consumer. Yeah. I mean, you want to know if Leonard came last week to your branch. You want to know the previous time he had come was two weeks ago, the the software you're using should be able to build a certain kind of a trend and predict and even prompt him.
Oh, Leonard, it's been a while since we saw you.
Yes.
Uh or even tell Leonard, oh, we notice you've only been sending us your suits. um we have this offer on blankets or duvets or carpets and in so doing you also now leverage that kind of technology to build to build your yeah to build your work. Yeah.

32:05
Okay. Yeah.
One thing I like talking about particularly professionals like yourself who have invested uh both your time and your knowledge in building businesses like this like to speak about ecosystems. You're in a very input heavy business. Yeah. where uh your inputs are almost as important as the machines that you'll select. Yeah.
So let's speak a bit about the supplies that you you procure
to enable you to to undertake the service that you provide to the market.
How is that landscape? How does it look? Who are the players? um when you upgrade your equipment to certain levels. I know one of the challenges locally is being able to find input suppliers who can match the level of the machinery you have invested in because they demand of course higher grade inputs. So how does that landscape look like for you?

32:58
100%. Um you're you're you're right on the bottom when you say when you say it's input heavy. Indeed it is. And I could tell you a quick story around one time when we imported a piece of equipment. Um that was before they did the inland container terminal. Yes. And and we brought in something through Mombasa. And I remember it came to Mombasa. It was a it was a it was a dry cleaning machine. And I was called and I was told when that the clearing agent called and they said you have to come here.
Mhm.
And I said no, we agreed it's coming to Nairobi. And they said, "No, the customs guys have withheld it and they're saying there's no way this kind of equipment can cost what we are seeing on the invoice."

33:37
Uhhuh. [laughter]
This thing this thing can't be for washing clothes.
This thing cannot possibly be washing just at washing clothes
because the equipment we are used to is 50,000 100,000 shillings. Now you've brought something in that is 20 times 30 times this cost doesn't make sense. So the customs official was approaching it from a point of suspicion. There might be something else within that uh consignment. And the reason I use that story is because there's such a disconnect between professional laundry and the kind of laundry that we do in the homestead.
Yes. And we you hear people asking you okay fine if I invest 3 million 5 million shillings in a piece of equipment and I'm and I'm cleaning a suit at 500 800 shillings how long will I take to recoup that investment?

34:29
And to your specific question around now the inputs that come with that kind of equipment. You need somebody to maintain it. Somebody who may not have been trained in Italy or Germany where you sourced that piece of equipment. you need detergent that is going to allow that machine to run smoothly without hurting the whole mechanical thing. Um same way you'll have for your uh for your for your for your kitchen where in hospitality. So the technical bit is a big one. uh we also over time we have built uh a team of service providers technicians who are good and who also invest in themselves
in terms of uh staying ahead of the curve knowing what kind of equipment is coming out of Europe and Asia and other places. Um you you you also want to really really invest in your people beyond even the equipment beyond the detergents and and and and the other inputs. We have found through our journey perhaps our biggest input in this journey is the people.

35:33
I would be I'd be remiss not to to mention their contribution in being able to get to where we have we have reached. Specifically, I'm talking about being able to organize people, being able to build SOPs, uh, uh, standard operating procedures, uh, being able to build a customer success team, of course, with the respective team leaders because we feel if our experience has been if you don't have the people who are the right people to attend to that customer, that laundry customer, then it doesn't matter what level of equipment you're invested in. It doesn't matter how hot your location is, whether it's enough prime hot mall, it doesn't matter. And we have found continuously investing in these people, attracting the kind the right kind of people, attracting the right mindset in terms of people who are able to help the customer and go above and beyond. I feel

36:25 that's what has gotten us over the edge. Yeah. So, it's input heavy, but the software, the human bit is also just as just as critical.
Do you self-source your detergents or do you work with local suppliers? We work with local suppliers. We do have other players even players even owners in our learning programs who have gone the whole extent of integrating backwards and manufacturing their own detergent. For us uh for us through the journey we have relied on uh a small panel of service providers. Yeah. Testing
and that's working well for you.
That's working ex excellently well for us.
Okay. The trick is for example if I use the detergent example you you've shared the trick is um when when when an owner comes and asks me Sam where do you buy your detergent I hesitate to tell them go and buy it from Leonard

37:11
I encourage them to build a relationship with Leonard and this is the difference when you go to a detergent service provider and you engage with them and you invite them to your place you hold them accountable
it stops being a transaction where I'm paying you 20,000 shillings every month so what we do in our case is we invite the detergent service provider. They'll come, we will put them in touch with our technical, our factory team leader
and they will have a very robust conversation, a conversation that I would not even be able to
to have
to have and they'll talk about the kind of stains that they've been seeing. They'll talk about the kind of fabrics that are coming out of China

37:50
and how those fabrics are misbehaving when you put them through this kind of a process. M uh and through that conversation you also hold that service provider accountable and you tell them the second I start hearing complaints from my consumer Leonard about this thing is not coming off it's not coming off I'm sorry I may have to review our arrangement.
Yeah. And that and that puts them in a completely different um conversation.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Interesting. I think you you've touched on something that I hold very dear which is the value of building a technical knowledge base in a subject matter and being able to talk authoritatively on that subject matter in your specific line you know and it is really encouraging to see Kenyan businesses growing in that way like yours for example cuz that's the same fight we have in the restaurant business you know um I I we've I've had I can

38:50 tell you a story or two similar to your custom story
about someone who sees a a piece of equipment and can't believe what you're saying it is, you know.
Um but I like to use the analogy of cars and say I I can get into my Toyota and I'll get to Mombasa. Yeah. and you can get into your 2026 Range Rover and you'll also get to Mombasa%
but there'll be two different drive.
I'm an [laughter] old mentor who used to tell me when you show up in in Mombasa it's not written on your face how you showed up. Nobody knows.
Exactly. But you both reached there and and both of you are justified in whatever means you chose to get you there.
Yeah.
Let's come back to AML and LBL. Yeah. What what where are we going? Your what does the future look like in this landscape?

39:44
The future looks exciting. The future looks um extremely fulfilling especially for that owner. I mean we live in times where people are told there are no jobs. There are no there's no there's no meaningful hustle.
But we are seeing people doing so much with very little. Leonard we are seeing mamaas coming in from the stage where they washing with their hands and within a short three five years they have this outfit where they have equipment uh and they are serving a huge number of uh client uh clientele and through that they're also being able to support themselves and their loved ones. I am seeing a lot of uh independence in an industry that used to be extremely fragmented. I'm seeing that uh fragmentation slowly consolidating.

40:32
I'm seeing people taking the industry more seriously.
And you and I have very many parallels given that when you're in the when you're in the restaurant space, I'm sure you appreciate this narrative. If our grandparents had been told that one day a place, an outlet, a food market like QuickMat or NAS would retail what you see Geri.
Yeah. some some mint. Yeah. Yeah.
Our grandparents would have said, you know, why
you guys are Yeah. Yeah. You're pulling a first one on us,
but today that is the case. I would argue that's where we're headed. And I've had a couple of these conversations with some of these um supermarket um executives and I tell them it's just a matter of time. The customer will want to come in and do all these errands one stop. initiate the their groceries, initiate all these other conveniences. At the end of the day, it's a convenience store. And I wouldn't be surprised if you see

41:35 one of these chains actually going that extent because the consumer wants somewhere where they'll go if their laundry is in their car. They can drop it there and they'll find it in their home. Um, so I see that kind of sophistication and and and it's and it's it's there. It's in Europe. You'll see you'll see stores that have partnered withies. You'll see uh that have been acquired in some instances by by supermarket chains because they understand the same consumer that we are targeting is the same consumer who is uh procuring these laundry services. Okay.
Yes. And you see laundry also happens to be in that bucket Leonard which has a two heat a two heat signal.
Mhm.
So it will be picked and it will be delivered. And for these other players, actors in the ecosystem like supermarkets and others, they only have one hit. So they also looking out for services that allow them

42:31
more hits on the customer per transaction. So that's where I see things going. Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Have you ventured out of Nairobi?
Um we have ventured out of Nairobi. Like I said, precoid we had footprint uh 14 locations that sent us to Kimu. We had two locations in Kimbu on Kimbu road as well as Kikuyu. We had also done two in Kajiadu specifically in Gongtown. Um in terms of now the rest of the growth has come through the learning platform.
That's what has allowed us now to move now even beyond the borders. It has allowed us to have conversations with people in Kala to have conversations with people in Kegali as far as Abuja. Yeah.
The the kind of laundry problems that your operator is having in Abuja Leonard. Very interesting problems. Mhm.

43:19
Um they are solving they are solving an energy problem. Uh ironically given Nigeria is such an exporter of of fuel but [clears throat] they still struggling with things that are as basic as power.
So in terms of uh footprint uh the learning platform I would say has spread out further
than the core which is the which is the the laundry business.
Do we see ML then? Should we look out for AML in these markets in the future?
100%. Um I mean when when I move around when I when I visit some of these uh cities especially the African cities and I and I and I and I and I strongly believe uh your platform is speaking to to the African business owner.
Um I see a lot of our learnings through our 22 years being replicated. Yeah. The question that we are now asking ourselves is do we want to go there as a business or do we want to go there as an agent of change? Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

44:17
That's that's that's the crossroad that we are trying to navigate right now.
And you're in the process of doing that.
Yes. And from the feedback that we're getting, I mean I mean by the time you're getting friends coming in from from from all these uh neighboring countries. Um I'd be lying to you if I told you we are not I mean we we we are seriously asking ourselves where could this learning uh take the brand. Yeah.
We are. Yeah. And that's a very interesting knowledge as a as as a product and it's it's a very good way to to build your brand and to continue growth in that sense. A personal curiosity I've had. Washing machines were not a big feature of our youth. Uh but now uh when you walk into the the the various uh players in the market, you do see huge banks of washing machines coming up.

45:12
What have what has I would be curious to hear your insight on that?
What what what what is is it convenience? What is driving it? And and and do you at any point play in that residential space from a training perspective? because I feel that we have these machines they are very technical but I would argue that many of the households do not use them to the optimum level that they are able to be used because of a lack of knowledge I would say
asked and answered
asked and answered I feel um you I mean you said it um 10 years ago I was still getting asked that question I was being told um people are picking up machines domestic IC washing machines like you know in the supermarkets. What does this mean for your business and does it mean uh you might have to rethink 10 years down and 10 years down we find no Leonard is still pressed for time

46:13
and it's not that Leonard is super super busy just that Leonard is very discerning of what he wants to do with his time. So now the question becomes what premium does Leonard place on his time? And you will find across the market your consumer will place different customers will place different amounts of premium on their time. That's why you'll hear somebody go to one laundry and say no you people are too expensive. Let me use the one in the estate. And still on our side you'll find somebody come and say I tried the one at the estate. I'm never going back.
Why? Because they're also looking for other things. that consumer when they come for the for for for for the laundry stop they're looking for certain uh quality elements that may not be readily available everywhere they're looking for things like uh your ability to deliver a defect-free process. You take care of the stains all the time consistently. They are looking for attendance or an interface that is that ex that that

47:11 demonstrates quite a bit of empathy. So when you bring your clothes like you bring your jacket, you place a certain uh premium to the jacket that you're wearing.
Yes.
It may not necessarily be the price that you bought uh from the shop.
It might be a jacket that was given to you by your son.
Yes.
Or your wife.
That has a different value proposition.
And depending on how I treat it, you will make a a decision in your mind. I think these are the guys who know how to handle my clothes. uh there areries that struggle with things like responsiveness. You ask them to take care of things uh they are taking two three days to do that
or when your mama fua comes to the home even if you have that washing machine that you've just described what else do you need that uh that lady that domestic manager to handle.

47:59
Yes.
Maybe you want them to attend to your children. Maybe you you feel their time is better invested if they handle your children
and then this routine stuff can be taken care of by somebody else. So that's what we are seeing. We we are seeing a lot of people who have because that's people say my competitor might be across the street. I choose to disagree.
My competitor is that washing machine.
Yes.
My competitor is that whatever solution Leonard has at home.
Yes.
I'm very very interested in if he has it. He has an 8 kilo. He has a 10 kilo machine in the house. Why is he not using it?
And when you get into those conversations, clients are very forthcoming. They even tell you for those things for for for that machine I only throw in my bed sheets.

48:39
Okay?
Because I know the level of care you people put into you know I separating colors uh the pressing the final finish. I invest in my image maybe I'm a creative maybe I'm an architect like uh the gentleman from Savo
those people care how they show up
and and for that kind of a discerning person I feel if you get these other attributes of the business right there'll always be a market for you.
Okay.
Yeah. Okay. [gasps] Institutional. Have they become your clients? The the the hotels of the world and the restaurants. Are you are the people who really burnt their fingers? [laughter]
Did that scare you off to the heels or
out here? Leonard, you guys are not my friends outside this door. You guys are not [laughter] the hotel guys. We are not your people.

49:28
You get You get what I'm saying? Um and I and
I'll share why. Yeah. hotels, good clients on the volume side, but technically I mean if you really unpack that relationship, they are also resellers
Mhm.
of the laundry service. So, for example, when they call you and you pick up 100 or 300 bed sheets, they're also reselling that experience to an end user.
So, it's also not in their interest to set the most optimal price. And you will find at least this has been our experience. You will find you might be retained on a panel
of service providers with maybe two or three other cleaners and uh the clients will use the three of you at different uh levels and there are people who thrive on that basis and they focus on the hotel. Um in our case we have focused on the retail

50:26
to make a line. So you come we sort out the the items that you need processed and the transaction comes to a close and then the following month the cycle repeats itself. So depending on how the person is structured there are those who do well with the hotel space. For us we prefer to focus on the on the retail side of the Yeah. But I I I think I I I see I do see an area that going forward at least in the next decade will particularly on the LBL side will begin to require your services because we are seeing the we we have seen it in the restaurant space and I believe we're going to see it in the hotel space. The restaurant space over the last two decades has been brilliant in the emergence of brands.

51:13
Yeah. M
uh we didn't really have many consistent replicated branded experiences.
Now um I think 3 weeks ago I saw Java have opened their 109th store you know art cafe [clears throat] in the 60s you know and and you can there are many other examples I believe that's going to happen also on the hotel front. Yeah. And I believe that's going to lead to a demand for a wellplanned
design and setup of laundry.
Okay.
Yeah. And I think that LBL as I listen to what LBL does, I think that's going to be an interesting area.
I I think I agree with you. I think there's massive opportunity opportunity for learning uh for those hotels uh when it comes to processing that uh linen at that level. The other piece I think um the other piece of opportunity I see there is something I may have seen in Europe where you have hotels um leasing their linen from a third party

52:15
and now it becomes the third party's headache as to how that linen will be maintained how it will be processed how it will be made available just in time
for the end user to use it. So you find it is not the hotel that is carrying the inventory of battery. Oh yeah 100%. So that's that's also a direction you're likely to see where you have an intermediary who maybe is in the business of stocking. They even have maybe 20,000 bed sheets.
They're not branded. They're not branded intercon or the regency or anything.
But anytime the regency needs they see their occup their occupancy go up, it's just requisition.
Yeah.
Made available and you're just build for that particular for that particular output.

52:56
Wow. Sam, what a fabulous fabulous We could go on. fabulous conversation. But um I think at this point I'll now give you a chance you know to speak to the audience and and tell them where can they find AML and um we I know we have an audience all around the world. So um LBL2 those who are interested in your courses and your training where where can they find you and how can they interact with you?
Thank you Leonard. This has been an absolute delight. First, even before um I put in my plug, I just want to honor and commend you for the wonderful work that you're doing.
Thank you.
I think Africa African Do is a heck of a platform. I mean, when you when you invited me, I I just reviewed a couple of the episodes you've done, I didn't think twice about it. I feel you are mobilizing conversations that have been long overdue.

53:47
Thank you.
Uh and that need that need to go on and that need to move on to the next uh next level. Um, in terms of AML, AML is all my laundry.com. Uh, we serve clients in and around Nairobi. Uh, we also serve clients in Kikuyu. Um, we have both, uh, physical brick and motor stores as well as an online presence, meaning we are able to pick up your laundry and deliver it back to you. Okay.
We also extend the array of services to shoe cleaning, things like carpet cleaning and so on and so forth. All that is available at allmy laundry.com. As far as the training is concerned, we have brought in a lot of business owners uh into the laundry business space, tried to hold their hand. We have a lot of case studies uh men and women who wake up every day uh to run their laundry businesses. Some come before they start, others come when they have

54:37 already started but they are struggling with either location, HR, uh equipment and so on and so forth. uh for that initiative the platform is laundry businessarning.com.
Okay.
Um but I mean anybody looks up or laundry business I'm likely to pop up in in one of those searches. So thank you very much.
No thank you for a fabulous conversation. Thank you for sharing your insights. You have also given me as a hotel and a restaurant a lot to think about about where the market is going. But we wish you all the very best with both AML and LBL.
Thank you very much Lena.
Thank you Antifana. So ladies and gentlemen, that was episode 72 of the African Do podcast where we featured Samoik and his laundry business. What an immersion into what is happening in the laundry landscape, not only in Kenya, but insights into what's happening on the content continent. And long may it last. We look forward to having you in future episodes. And thank you very much for joining us. [music]