Sawari — transcript

World-Class Hospitality Shouldn't Only Happen in Big Hotels. Idza Kashero Is Proving It | Sawari

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:05 Greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 53 of the African Do podcast. Today we come into my world hospitality and I'm very very privileged and proud to have as our guest today a relative of mine and good friend Ida Casherro of Sarawi Hospitality Limited. Ida welcome to the African Do podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah. Yeah, it's been a long time coming.
So, is I've had the privilege of watching your career.
Yeah.
Yeah. Uh from when you thought about doing hospitality to you going to uni, coming out, graduating to your early days. Yeah. Um
so you you maybe let's speak about your early days as what drove you to to consider hospitality as a career. There are not many. It's when I think about my career in hospitality, I say it it it sounds very sexy, but it's also one of the careers that has huge sacrifice.

1:06
Yeah.
On a personal and family level,
yet you're one of the ones who's standing the ground and you're still here. You know, you haven't
exited into banking or into [laughter] something that's a bit more friendly. You're still there
in some shape or form. will speak about that. But maybe tell me about your inspiration. Where did you start? How did you think about hospitality? And what inspired you to to seek a career in hospitality?
Wow. Okay. Um, so firstly, we grew up around hotels a lot.
Um, a lot of our family is in the hospitality business. I think
every one of my uncles stepped into that line of work.
Yeah. [clears throat] And growing up around said uncles, we were always within hotels. Be it Serena, be it Utali,

1:57
these are now the place we go for lunch every Sunday. So it was it became such a regular thing for me that I couldn't see anything else. Um and then also I just had the personality. I love people. I like engaging with people, helping people. Just that hospitalitable personality. So, it was very easy for me to now decide, okay, um, I'm not going to become a psychologist,
and hospitality is the closest thing because you're constantly dealing with people, talking to people, trying to make their day a little bit better. Um, so it was the closest thing to psychology for me.
Yeah.
Um, while also making people happy. Um and yeah, so I started off um with an internship because the moment I told my dad that I wanted to do hospitality, he was like, "Uh,

2:48
yeah, I've [laughter] seen it with you that you really want to do this. I've seen how demanding it is and despite the the luxury background because everyone thinks, wow, you're in this fivestar hotel,
you're living a good life, there's a lot of time that it takes from you." M
um especially for my uncles who are GM of fivestar hotels in Nairobi in Mobasa it's very demanding so my dad was very hesitant about it and he said you know what before you even go to uni
let's get you an internship you try it out so I did two different internships one
before uni
before uni was the first one I did was at Sheraton in Uganda
yes
which was now the first time I was exposed to hospitality Mhm.

3:35
Still loved it. My dad was like, "Ah,
okay."
Mhm.
We we tried it again. Um second internship was at Serena in Campala again. And I still loved it. I loved it even more. And now when I was on that internship is when I got accepted into the university that I went to.
Yes.
Which is um Lar Ro in Marba, Spain.
Yeah. um [clears throat] ended up going there immediately after high school and it was the best experience. And that's another thing I need to say about hospitality schools. They will make it seem so
amazing and luxurious.
Yeah. Yeah.
And our school was really good in that we had theory and practical within the course.
So you're getting to see both best of both worlds. You're working in fivestar restaurants, fine dining restaurants. You're learning about wines and cocktails and, you know, all the fun stuff.

4:32
All the fun stuff. Butler service, the things that really make um hospitality luxurious
and I loved it.
Y
and I finally graduated in um 2016, I believe.
So, you you you now finish you finished with training. you had this fabulous time in Spain and uh you now transition and I remember we had a conversation around that and you said that
you would like to try your hand at working outside the country
uh before you you come here. So where where does life after uni take you?
Um so luckily enough we had connections with a lot of hotel brands around the world
straight from uni. managed to get a management training in Qatar with the Hilton Doha.
Okay,
that's where I started off. Um, it was a nice intense training. You moved through the different departments. I focused mainly on food and beverage and operations.

5:34
Um, and I think that's where now solidified that I wanted to be in hotels. I really wanted to move through FNB manager, operations manager and eventually to GM. like my career path was set
you know
um and with the Hilton they have a really good program where you can have a direct um training to go towards GM so that's now
I was set that was the plan
um so I did that training for uh in Qatar for one year um I was then transferred to the Hilton in Dubai on JBR uh and spent two two years there started off as a supervisor worked my way up now food and beverage um restaurant manager.
Yeah.
And it was amazing.
Mhm.
But Dubai
um despite it being this very lovely, luxurious place can get very cold and lonely,

6:34
especially because of the hotel that I was working in, JBR was at a very very high touristy area.
Yes. and we were always at 99.9% occupancy through the year.
So, we were making good money.
Guests were overflowing.
Um, [clears throat] and that meant I was working crazy crazy hours. I was working about 6 days a week, 15 hours a day. It was very demanding. And the one day off you have in a week is literally just for rest. You do your laundry, you stay in the house, you sleep and then you go back and do it again the next week.
So it became very very lonely and my family became the hotel. So the hotel was everything and the good thing about Dubai and majority of the hotels the way they work there is they provide you accommodation, meals. So you're not paying anything. You're not paying any bills.

7:31
Your money is your money
but you're in the hotel all the time. So you're not even getting to enjoy the money that you're making. M
um so it became it really took a toll on my mental health
and I started to think about where I wanted to progress in life and despite now still having this idea of me wanting to be a GM and focusing on GM GM GM I started to wonder is this does it get any better? Does it get any easier? does my life do I suddenly get more hours in the day, you know, to enjoy?
It wasn't looking like a plan.
And um
this is where I'm like, "Dad, dad knew."
He was right.
Yeah.
Um but there's no part of me that regrets that experience that I had in Qatar and in Dubai because they've really honestly paved the way for

8:31
so
after making this discovery. after many discovering
the reality of life and work as opposed to the dream.
Yes.
So what do you do with that information?
So I quit.
Mhm.
I quit with no plan.
And every parent tells you never quit without a job.
Yes.
I quit. I moved back to Nairobi.
Mhm.
And my dad honestly was not very happy but he was supportive.
Yes.
And I started now doing the ground work. I applied to every hotel in Nairobi and I figured with my experience I should have no issue
getting a job.
And um it was very interesting. It was a bit of character development because now I've come from restaurant manager Dubai money
and then you come to the industry here in Nairobi and they're not paying as well.

9:25
Yes.
And the hours are not great. M
um so even as I was going through the interviewing processes, the money they were offering me was nowhere near
what you were earning.
What I was earning. A lot of people even a lot of hotels depreciated my value. Um instead of giving me restaurant manager position, I was getting supervisory roles, hostess roles. I'm not sure what that was about. Um but I knew my worth and I knew my value and I said I'm going to wait until I get what I need. And where does that take you?
That eventually takes me to Sankara.
Okay.
I started off at Sankara. They offered me a restaurant manager job
and it wasn't Dubai money, but it was good enough for me to survive in this Nairobi climate.

10:15
Yes.
And it was fantastic.
Yeah.
The only thing is that when I got that job, it was March of 2020.
Yep.
1st of March 2020.
Yeah. It's going to be, you [laughter] know, you know, when I think about now we are six years from the pandemic. Yeah.
But when I think about it, the pandemic for hospitality people, not that hospitality, airlines, the things that that just went dead.
Yeah.
I think that's going to be a thing that decades to come. You know it'll be like you know how in in books you read about the great drought of 1914. So [laughter] guys will talk about the pandemic
that's the equivalent
you know hey I was working in hospitality and 2020 the pandemic came

11:02
the pandemic
because you don't even have to say what happened [clears throat]
but it's just such it was just so impactful
honestly.
So what happens and what do you see in your new job as restaurant manager? Ah so it was literally 3 weeks that I worked and the country shut down.
M
um we [clears throat] closed the hotel. A lot of people unfortunately lost their jobs. I by some miracle was fortunate enough to re to be retained.
Yeah. And after that we were at home for about 3 months and now we started working towards reopening because now we had to redo SOPs you know set up restaurants according to the new laws according to the new parameters everything had to change
and that was a lot of fun preoping and redoing.

11:53
Had you ever done a pre-opening of a hotel before?
Uh not a hotel but of a restaurant. Okay.
Right. So it was it was something I knew very similar. It can be very intense but it's it's it's also a nice journey. You're redoing menus. You're tasting a lot of beverages. It was it was lovely.
But then when we opened and remember at that time um when
Nairobi reopened to or rather the lockdown um parameters were reduced. It was only hotels that are open to serve.
Yes. during the day and Nairobians and their day drinking would come in at 8:00 a.m. and leave at 8:00 p.m. And it was hectic.
Remember, we at about 50% of the staff we are we had
and we still had the flow of a full restaurant.

12:46
So now me as restaurant manager at the time, I am on the floor
serving guests. I am welcoming guests. I am in the bar making drinks. And then after now my long shift of being on the floor, I'm going to the back office and now doing my admin. So my budgeting, my planning, my ordering, all of that. And um it wasn't something that I wasn't familiar with, but the sheer demand was
very Dubai like, isn't it?
Very Dubai like. I was back to square one.
Yeah.
And at this point, I'm just thinking, okay, okay, I've moved back to Nairobi. I have my support system. I have my family, I have my friends, but I'm still back at the place I was at in Dubai.
So, it wasn't really about um the job or rather it wasn't really about being lonely or in an isolated city,

13:39
but now how much the job was demanding and taking from me.
Yeah.
And I know COVID time was a very isolated situation. Um it was just very unfortunate that that was when I resumed work. Um but yeah, then I had to make a decision again. But this decision,
before we even get to the decision,
Yeah.
Um maybe speak to what did you see, you know, um uh you you
you're back at work. The customers were there's pent up demand because people have been locked at home,
you know, for a long time. So the few places that opened most experienced an upsurge you know people coming out and trying to stay out and socialize which they had been denied for
exactly
maybe 3 four 5 months. Yeah.

14:27
So what did you witness from not so much from the customer side you walked us through that
but what did you witness from a staffing side? M
how does the hotel you're working in handle this increased business yet they laid off staff
exactly
maybe let's speak a bit about that and and what you observed in that time
right so um we were working with about 50% of the staff particularly in food and beverage they had reduced significantly I think at the time we were about five managers two hostesses and maybe seven waiters in two bartenders
managing an entire hotel
and [clears throat] keep in mind we had about four outlets that were running.
Um so what I witnessed was the hotel now had to look for other ways to supplement our service because there was no way that small team was going to still sustain all the operations, the food and beverage operations. And there were companies in Nairobi that were providing casual stuff. Um but majority of the companies that do so are focused in housekeeping. Okay.

15:42
So the housekeeping sector it run as usual.
Yeah.
Food and beverage however is such a niche um department because it's very specific service especially in fivestar hotels.
Yes.
You can't just bring anyone to appear and
you can't pick someone off. can't
do the standards, know the menu. Even you guys know when you're in a restaurant um let's say in town versus a restaurant in a high-end hotel, the service is very different. Okay? And that's something you cannot teach um right off the bat. Someone cannot just step in and you know um kind of carry out that role to perfection. So for me it became very difficult in that yes we were receiving people to help but they could they still could not help. So

16:33 there's no one who's going to jump in the bar and make the drinks that they do not know. That was still going to be me.
Yes.
There's no one who's going to be able to come and explain to you what ingredients are in a certain dish. And remember we are so understaffed. There's no way we have even time to train these new people who are coming in
at a moment's notice. And that for me was now the gap that kind of stood out.
So you've now encountered um basically what are staff outsourcing companies, right?
Exactly.
Uh but there are staff outsourcing companies. Um and I think that speaks to
the maturing of Kenya's market because like in Dubai, in the states, in the UK, uh staff outsourcing companies are standard. They they are very very normal things. You know, you can get them. But in Kenya, they're new. And it's interesting that you mentioned that you observed them starting from housekeeping.

17:26
Mhm.
So, okay, fair enough. So, this would be cleaners, housekeepers, people who make up the rooms, clean the public areas and like Okay. Okay.
Very doable.
Yes.
And um like you said, abroad, it's something that's very easily done. Something that I saw in the hotels that I worked in. And you know a funny thing is when I was back on one of the holidays um while I was still working in Dubai and I spoke to my uncle about this idea the same uncle that is a GM in fivestar hotels here in Nairobi
and he said it's actually a good idea but the problem is in Nairobi the salary range is so low that we are able to hire as many staff as we want um without having to think about keeping a minimum amount of staff and supplementing with um [clears throat] casual staff until COVID came and people realized okay we do not need 100 waiters

18:27
12 months out of a year it does not make sense
because business fluctuates
h January are slow December's are crazy busy you need to account for that
and that's now
what I say is the positive of co for sawi is that that opportunity then presented itself.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, do you leave now to set up salary?
That's when I leave because I've seen Okay. I have the knowledge. I've worked at this point in hospitality for about 8 years. Um I know how to train food and beverage staff. There is a lack of a company that um trains food and beverage casual staff. And I said, "Okay, I've seen how the business runs. I see how the hotels are interacting with casual companies and I make the decision to leave with the information that I'm

19:17 gathered.
And what is Sawari at its at its inception? You know, what is it? What does it do?
Yeah. So, at the start of Sawari, I only began consulting up until um maybe two months in is when I now decided to start training food and beverage staff.
Yeah. So I was doing both consulting for um a cigar business actually um in business development and creating a hospitality field in the business. But at the same time now I was building my team. Um I started off with about 10 waiters doing training with whatever amount I had saved. I rented out a space at Nairobi Garage started training. Soon enough, the numbers grew to 60. And at this point, um I decided to now start approaching hotels.
Okay.

20:09
Okay.
Telling them what?
Telling them, look, um I understand the situation now. Um we have gotten through COVID, but we've not fully recovered, right? And me being in that situation myself, I understand restaurant managers need trained, casual staff. We are here to make their life easier. I'm offering you an added value of the staff that you receive are already trained in fivestar standards. All you need to do is menu training
knowledge training
for the specific hotel brand.
But in terms of fivestar standards, it's the same across the board. You know, serving from the right side, clearing from the left side,
forks and knives placements, all of those small things. Um, and funny enough, Sankara was my first client.

20:58
Oh, wow. So, there was no there was no bad blood. There was no bad blood.
There was no bad [laughter] blood when you when you walked away. Yeah.
There was no bad blood at all.
And what do they give you as your first client?
So, we start off with a small section of food and beverage service and um I slowly took over the department. Started
in that small segment. They say provide us the waiters. provide us with 10 waiters.
10 waiters.
We start with 10 waiters. We see how they fare on.
Mhm.
And that was in banquetss and slowly they said, "Okay, I like the waiters you're giving us. Let's do a restaurant. Let's provide for this restaurant." And eventually slowly um they fully use our services to this day.

21:41
So now that the if you if you if you do end up in Sakara for a meal,
Yes. The waiters who will serve you are actually your staff outsourced.
Correct.
Yes. And what this does for a hotel if we if we go into the numbers from a from a maybe P&L perspective,
right?
Is they these are not their staff. Exactly. So they can say we need 12 today, next month we'll need 15 or we'll need 30. And it's you to
provide.
Okay. And how do you contract? your contracts speak to that or how maybe tell us a bit about the nuts and bolts or the back of house. How is the sausage made in this outsourcing world?
Um from the client perspective or from the okay
both. So essentially what will happen is we'll engage a client uh or rather a client engages us because every client that we have onboarded is via word of mouth gratefully and um we'll engage a client. They'll tell us what they need because every hotel requires different standards. Some only use casuals. Some will now have um their their staff fully contracted by us, subcontracted by us. and we'll get into an agreement and then

22:59 according to their needs we provide the staff. So let's say they have an event where they have 100 people. They need 50 waiters, one one call, one phone call away, 24 hours or 48 hours later, we provide to the staff.
Um there's some instances where we have staff that are fully stationed at hotels. So they're there 6 days a week. They are fully on payroll. We are doing all the statutories. So they're take technically our staff but subcontracted to hotels.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's a very interesting space. Yeah. and who let's walk through how that space has been. We're now talking 2020 you start. So you're six years in. Yeah.
You've been at it. You now have a whole bevy of clients. So there are several hotels where you're providing this service.

23:47
Maybe walk us through the insights what you've seen. Is it entrenching? You you are
I think you have a better visibility of the industry because you look at it holistically. multiple
um first of all business fluctuates within the years um how small things for example USA living can affect the entire city business can drop and and pick up at a moment's notice it's very um unpredictable and I think that's also been quite beneficial For us, having multiple hotels under our belt means that we can move staff to different hotels according to business needs. So you'll have one waiter can be at um moving pick today, tomorrow they'll be at Sankara, they'll be at XYZ, XYZ XYZ. Um also provides them the benefit of learning and adapting. Um the industry itself um has changed a lot I would say from the time that I used to be in hotels running around as a child to now it has grown significantly. Um they've been within even just the past 5 years postco they've been about four to five international hotel brands that have stepped into Nairobi

25:19
um to cater for very different needs.
Yes. um it has has been great for us. I would say the industry itself has really developed in a way that we're almost achieving international standards.
Um there's a few points that lack um but I would say if we really really stepped into it and put our minds to it, we could be at par with the Cape Towns, the Joe Bugs,
hopefully one day the Dubai, um even the restaurant scene in itself. Um, if [clears throat] I think about the restaurant brands that were here when I just started off uni, you would say Java was one of the major ones. Now we have Art Cafe which is at par. We have lots of individual restaurants that are really focusing on food, atmosphere, vibes. Um, so it's been very very interesting to see the industry develop in that sense.

26:17
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. You're how can I put this? You are you're one of the let me call you you're not that I wouldn't call you a young t in the industry but you're now you're seasoned in the sense that you've been in the industry for a while but you're younger than your uncles myself and so on.
So I I would be curious to to take your read on this Kenyan landscape. We we are experiencing some very interesting things. You're one of them. Yeah.
Um exporting of talent, you know, people recruit for hospitality and nursing, other industries and Kenyans are leaving the country and going to work abroad. Um maybe let's speak to um that versus the growing of the local industry. What have your observations been around that

27:14
and thoughts?
You know what? Um I always encourage especially hospitality graduates to go and experience the hospitality outside of Kenya.
Not saying that we need to leave Kenya and um not n our industry back home but I feel that the standard um [clears throat] that you will experience and the culture and the different types of people you're going to serve, the different types of service you will experience, you can then bring that back. Um starting off I always say that that's a good thing and for me I would say that that is what has given me such a major advantage. Um now I'm not saying anyone is going to get that opportunity to go abroad. Okay. Besides um hotel brands abroad we have cruise ships which can be very intense and have taken large numbers of hospitality staff um from Kenya from my company as well.

28:15
Yeah. You felt it. I felt it. And um you know what I always tell people? I always give a disclaimer. Cruise ships is a different ballgame. You are going to be working um 24/7 for 6 months
which can be intense but the experience you'll gain in those 6 months is going to be unmatched. Um and then when you come back now build your home, build your um your hotel brands, build build your restaurant brands, bring the experience that you have gained and nurture what we have here at home. Um now for those who don't have necessarily have the opportunity to go abroad, it's not to say that there's no opportunities here. We have some very good hospitality schools that are doing amazing things. We have IHDI, we have Bulma, we have even Kondeni that we've also partnered with that are um I don't want to say producing good students but they have really really

29:11
taken to train people well and from there now even partnering with us they're able to have opportunities with fivestar hotel brands which may not have been the case. So honestly, I would say whichever works for you. I think there's opportunities in both areas. Um, but I'll always say if you can, even if just for a couple of years, go and see what's out there and then bring that culture here back home.
Yeah.
So, from that base of Sankara being your first customer and you them outsourcing their stuff with you slowly and growing through that, where where do we find ourselves today? today. Um, honestly, Sankara has been such a good platform for us because once we got Sankara, um, it was very easy now to bag other hotel brands and we're working with the AORE brands. So, the Move Pics, Pullman, um, and then we also have Brayban Group of

30:10 Schools um, that we're working with. We've worked with Hayatt brand. So, it's been really um, [clears throat] a good platform. Beyond that, we're also working with workable co-working space where we now do consulting in SOPs and training and staffing as well. So, it's it's really just um we've doubled in a lot. Okay. Yeah, we've
and your staffing still comes in two groups. You have two categories. You have either the permanent staff who are permanently subcontracted to the unit on a fixed number basis and then you have a whole pool of casual staff who move around your various institutions on a need to basis.
Yes.
So group schools you said brabban schools and and and you mentioned co-working spaces.

30:54
Yes.
Those are not traditional hospitality institutions. So who are you sending there?
Right. So um beyond now the food and beverage service we also expanded into kitchens. Okay. So we are also having chefs and stewards under our
um positions that we provide.
And um for Brayburn group of schools, they have kitchens.
Okay.
And the kids have to eat serving meals. So um we provide uh chefs and stewards for them. And then within co-working spaces, you still have receptionists um that have that hospitality touch.
Um so we also double in that.
Okay. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Now let's let's let's put on our dreaming caps a bit and talk about the future,
right?
Yeah. You're ambitious. You have tried um you you have built something 6 years in um and it's continuing to grow and develop. What does the future look like or what are you seeing and what do you plan for Sawari to become into the future?

31:58
Um I have big dreams. you know entrepreneurs we always dream big
tell us about them [laughter] tell us about them
so beyond being in Nairobi I want to focus on capital cities within Africa
okay
okay mainly because um business hotels are key drivers within capital cities um resorts can be a bit of a different ballgame because the the business can really fluctuate for example in Mombasa that you only have maybe very specific seasons. December that is going to be high season.
Um I don't know if August is still high season
all school holidays holiday Easter very very specific um timings within the year but with business hotels majority of the year is going to be busy whereas December is probably going to be only half the last half of December is probably going to be quiet. M

32:56
so focusing on um international brands within um capital cities.
Yes.
And international even local brands the Srovas the Serenas hopefully um that have built a name for themselves.
Have you made inroads into local brands?
Um the thing with hotels is it takes a lot of attempts. There's a lot of levels of approvals, a lot of directors. So we have had intros with some local brands and we're still waiting on
okay
um some feedback.
So let's build on that story about uh capital cities. So um and uh cognizant of the fact that this can change.
So how do you see that working? Do you see you going into the um the capital cities and doing what you did in Nairobi training and then getting absorbed or do you see you as being the exporter of talent from Kenya core group you what how do you see it evolving?

33:57
Um actually I see it in both senses. Um I'll give you the example of Kgali. I have had a hotel approach me from Kigal, Rwanda, but then they just want to use Kenyan talent. Um there's also a lot of situations where Kenyan talent is taken to Tanzania to [clears throat] Uganda.
Um so I see that opportunity to export our talent, but I also do want to build the talent within those cities as well.
Just because Kenyans are very good at hospitality doesn't mean um
you can't pass on the skill to
other Exactly. Um so I think beyond now um exporting our talent I would want to set up the departments within Kgali within um Daris Salam within Kala um that we can have training that we can elevate the talent and still have the same model that we are doing here in Nairobi. Do you see yourself venturing out of FNB and being a one-stop solution for staffing, you know,

34:56
to to a new property, or do you see or do you want to retain your focus in in the food and beverage space?
Um, it's something I've been wanting to do. Housekeeping particularly, um, they've been all of the hotels that I partner with are quite literally asking me to step into that role. But one thing about me is I don't do things halfway. I want to set up a good department. I want to have a department head where
the training is because my focus isn't I don't know the details about training in housekeeping. So for me the training needs to be completely right
before we can launch that side of things.
Okay.
Um with housekeeping you need a very elaborate training facility which is also what we're looking into.

35:41
Okay.
Um so it's not something that um I've not thought about. It's a department we are currently working on building and then once it's launched it's going to be launched right.
Okay.
Yeah. So let's take out this uh we have talked a lot about hospitality but now let's just talk about IDA the entrepreneur in a Kenyan landscape and speak about the the challenges or the trials and tribulations and opportunities and strengths of building a business as a young lady
in this market landscape and let's speak to how that journey has been for you. What has your experience been? uh what's your relationship with the tax man? What's your relationship with regulatory authorities that sit in your space?

36:28
Has there have been some ups and downs? And let's let's speak about that experience.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean as I mentioned I never saw myself coming into this career path. I was a GM. That was the goal.
Y
and then I think God called me into something completely different
which is this. And honestly, I really wonder [laughter] I really wonder what
when people say, "Oh, I just want to be an entrepreneur." I look at them [clears throat] and I'm like,
"Are you sure?
Are you sure you want to do this?" Because it's
Tell us more.
It's not. It's not easy. And you know, people say it's not easy. A lot of people just say it's not easy. But guys,
it's it's not.
So, what have the some of the challenges been

37:14
or the big ones? I think um for me particularly first of all being a solo founder is probably the most difficult because a lot of the decisions rest on me a lot of the repercussions rest on me. So the weight of decision making and you're thinking about um currently we have 400 casual staff we have just over 100 permanent staff. All of these people, their families, their children, my decision impacts all of these people. So there's a lot of pressure to constantly make right decisions. And as a solo founder, not having someone to bounce ideas off of, you're not, you know, weighing the pros and the cons from different mindsets can be very daunting. Okay. So sometimes you're going to make bad decisions,

38:09
you know, and it's going to weigh on you. That for me I would say is probably the most difficult thing when you've made
at the top.
Yes,
it's lonely at the top.
I have a great team that work with me but even then at the end of the day the decision rest on me. So mistakes will be made and the repercussions of the mistakes can be massive
and then you still have to sleep at night and figure it out the next day.
Yep. Um so that's where I would say the the major major difficulty is lies. I would say um other than that the Kenyan climate
has been so unforgiving to that sense of yours.
Uh in the past I would say 5 years there've been so many changes particularly for me because my biggest product is people.

39:07
Yes. So NSSF which has doubled almost tripled.
Um you have pay numbers which are constantly fluctuating. You have housing levy which was newly introduced. All of these costs which we have to match. Um that have just come up out of nowhere. One January you're told okay this is being implemented this is being implemented. Um so that has been quite difficult. you can't budget, you can't plan because something will just happen and you have to adjust accordingly. Um, and then for me, another thing that really really weighs on me is no one teaches you how to plan for K.
Mhm. [laughter]
Uhhuh.
And you know what? K will come knocking on your door and no one teaches you how to handle it. No one teaches you. For example, even just the VAT application, no one teaches you how to do it. No one is guiding you. It's not not something that you learn in school. There's no course you can do. You literally learn on the go.

40:13
And it doesn't matter whether you quite frankly did not know. When the tax man comes knocking, he comes knocking and you have to answer.
Um so that for me was was also quite daunting. um figuring out how to be relaxed in such situations because I would panic. M
I'd panic and I'd think okay bus this is the end sari is done we are closing business we're closing shop but as I've now navigated it for the past few years I've learned it's just conversations you know you can work things out you can figure out um [clears throat] you know any previous mistakes that you have made you can learn from them and make sure you don't repeat them again the the most important thing is just not to repeat it and just do clean business, guys.

41:05
Clean business as much as you can. Um, but yeah, even even
some would argue that it can't be done. [clears throat]
You try your best.
Yeah, you try your best.
You do your absolute best.
I think it can. I think it can. And I think your your testament to the fact that it can. Yeah. Because um
I've heard you and I I hear your lamentations and it is difficult, but I don't hear impossible.
Exactly. And and the way I look at it and one of the reasons we do do this podcast is because I believe very strongly that this is our market. Yeah. And if we are going to see change in this market, then we'd better allocate our best and brightest to tack us to tackle our most difficult challenges. Yeah. Otherwise, what are we doing? We know um there's no shortage as you say the the hospitality industry is growing

42:03 um hotels international brands are coming but one thing you learn from the past is that international brands will leave as fast as they came should anything
go wrong you know they will take their brand and they'll move on to the next big market
so what excites me about companies like Sawari and what you're doing is that when we as Kenyans own the Kenyan ecosystem and aspire to own the African ecosystem. I believe that the foundation becomes solid
and the base becomes more robust. Yeah. Cuz if the talent is coming from you even when the international brands come and grow that skill set is here right
and it's going nowhere. So I'd give you some encouragement and tell you that listen you are doing great stuff and keep doing it. Don't be threatened or afraid. K will be here and and and you have have now seen I guess what business is

43:01
that these are just people like you sitting on the other side of the table. It's not a big bad monster, you know, it's just another person
and you'll argue your case. And the beauty about the system
is when the system is documented as K is evolving into with the E teams and the VAT and all that, then it's there.
You know, if you learn it, you will not know it today,
but tomorrow, if you choose to know it, you'll know it. And if you subscribe and build your business model around it, then you're there
to stay.
Yeah.
So maybe um let's let let's speak um as we draw to the end of this conversation, let's speak about your outlook on the future of African hospitality. Um there's been a lot of in evolution just as recently as when you were going to to uh college you know in 2016 to date.

44:00
Um so where do you think what's the future of of the African tourism landscape and what would you like to see it evolve into?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think there's a lot of potential um for growth. One thing I will say is let's not be stuck in our old ways. Um
we still have hotel brands or um people who are in the industry that really think old school and want to maintain or or latch on to that old school hospitality mentality. I would say let's embrace innovation. Let's embrace change. You have restaurants that are now having robots. Things are much more automated. Um let's look into that. It will cost a lot but um there's a lot of opportunity for growth in that area. Um in terms of brands and restaurants and um growth, I think there's so much room for growth within Nairobi, within uh East Africa. We have a lot of um brands that are willing to come in and you know help us grow the industry and even within local brands we have a lot of restaurant chains that are really coming up locally that are really doing amazing things. I would just say let's not forget that the core of hospitality is the people the personnel

45:29 um those are the [clears throat] ones that make a difference. So let's appreciate them. Let us appreciate the service and focus on the service and good service. Good food and the trifecta of ambience, good food, service, all of that. Um I don't think we have a problem in terms of Nairobi. Um
uh our service industry is compared to a lot of African countries, we are doing great. Yeah,
we are doing great. It's only up from here,
you know. Um, like I said, we could be at par with international standards if we really really wanted to, if we really invest in it.
And for me, that's that's basically it.
So, I think those are very good points that you've made, but I' I'd think I'd add I'd love to see and I think we are already seeing it the emergence of Africans traveling in Africa.

46:28
Yeah.
Yeah. you know where we can see how I was um in December I was in Lamu, one of my favorite places to go to in the country.
And flying back from Lamu, we were sitting in the flight with six young ladies from South Africa.
I love it.
And I was like, "Oh, so how did you?" And I'm like, "No, we've heard about this place. So we came. We've been here for a week and we love I'd love to see a lot more of that."
Right. unashamedly pro- African and Africans moving within Africa so that we can begin you've you've seen it uh in in terms of how needs of a certain type of business traveler you know the more they travel the more their needs are curated by the establishments you know and they say oh um the Ugandan tourists need this and the Nigerian tourists need this and if you want to design and it even creeps into design if you want to design, you

47:29 know, um, for the South African tourist or for the Angolan tourist or for the Zambian tourist. I'd love for that to become a really freestanding, robust segment of our industry
and I hope that we can see it in our lifetime.
I definitely think so. There's been a complete shift in that a lot. Even just within my friend groups, you'll see you're hearing a lot of people are traveling to Sagal, to Ghana, to South Africa, Nigeria. We are really really trying as our generation to stay within even before going outside we are prioritizing media places you'd never even think oh that's a priority to go to so I'm really loving that shift as well.
Excellent.
Yeah.
So it's a first of all um like I said let me give you your flowers now. You are doing you're not talking and challenges not withstanding you're in the game

48:21
and a lot counts. Um, one of my favorite, um, I'll share it with you is I don't know if you have heard of, have you have you read the man in the arena? Teddy Rose Roosevelt's quote.
Not yet.
That credit belongs to the man in the arena because you're there, you know, you're in, you're in it. You're not talking from outside. You're actually doing.
Yeah.
So, I think for the benefit of the audience, I'll now give you a chance to speak about Sawari hospitality. uh any uh hospitality uh brand owners or restaurant owners, hotel owners and even schools
uh who would like to use their your services where they can where can they find you? What are your handles? Where Yeah.
Okay. So, you've heard about what we are doing. We are taking personnel, elevating them and then now seconding them to hotels within um Nairobi as of now and then hopefully East Africa. Um so you can reach us on Sawari Hospitality via Instagram um via LinkedIn. Um we also have our website sarihosity.com if you want to read more information about us and our team. People who would like to apply looking for waitress um

49:36 positions anything in food and beverage front of house back of house you can also apply via our website. And any client who may be interested, it might not be the most conventional hospitality area, but anywhere you feel that has a hospitality or needs a hospitality touch, please, everything is on our website. You can always reach us via sawarihosity.com.
Excellent. It's a cashero saw hospitality. Thank you very much for being a guest on the African Do podcast.
Thank you for having me. Ladies and gentlemen, that was episode 53 of the African Do podcast where we tell stories of excellent Africans executing excellently. And today we are very privileged to have with us Ida Casherro of Sawaru Hospitality. So, thank you for being with us and we look forward to having you in future episodes.