Eunice Maina-Mburu — transcript

She Doesn't Just Build Companies. She Helps Others Build Theirs 20X | Eunice Maina-Mburu. Ep. 33

This transcript is generated automatically by YouTube and has not been checked by a person. It misspells names and mishears words, particularly around Kenyan English and company names, so read it as a guide to the conversation rather than a quotable record. Each timestamp opens the video at that moment.

0:03 [Music] Greetings ladies and gentlemen. Um, it's a pleasure to be with you here today. Um, those of you who are keen followers of the African Blue podcast may have noticed that uh in uploading the various episodes, we have skipped episode 33. Um, that is uh not planned, unintentional. Unfortunately, we had a bit of a technical glitch and we lost some of the video of episode 33. So, the first five to six minutes of the episode will be without video, but we'll have clear audio. Uh, we thought about re-recording, but it was a brilliant episode with Unis Muru and we felt that we should just go ahead and introduce the episode without the audio at the beginning and and the audio the video will kick in from about minute 7 or thereabouts. So, we apologize for this mishap on our part and we hope you enjoy the episode. It is a very interesting story and we hope that you'll still tune

1:02 in and and listen to the episode. Welcome. [Music] Uh, greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to episode 33 of the African Do podcast. Um, today we're very privileged to have with us Ununice Murup. Ununice runs a very interesting business around sales.
Uh all things sales I like to say. Um and uh 20X Entrepreneurs.
Yeah.
Limited.
Yes. Limited.
20X Entrepreneurs Limited. And we'll discuss that in greater detail. But first, let's get to know Ununice. Ununice. Welcome to the African Blue podcast.
Thank you very much and I'm happy to be here.
Excellent.
Yes. So Ununice um before we get into building a sales business, I'm sure which people asking must be questioning what a sales business is. But before we get to that, let's speak about Ununice. Yeah.

1:56
And uh where you start this journey. Yeah. Um you are uh um you started in corporate. So maybe you can take us through that the early days of your career and how you found yourselves as
a sales professional. Mhm.
Yeah.
Yeah. I I will take you a little back to university. I studied chemistry and mathematics.
Wow. Okay.
So, ideally I am a scientist.
Uh then after that I I worked a little bit in the pharmaceutical industry
um in the lab and then I joined a training company which was training ICT. Mhm.
Again there I was able to be trained to be a trainer and I also studied computer studies. So I got an advanced diploma in computer studies. Uh became Microsoft certified system engineer.

2:50
So I would say clearly I'm a scientist.
Okay.
Uh yeah when I worked there for 5 years
and at some point I I felt I need to make money. um you know training wasn't making money.
Okay. Okay. So paying your salary not enough. Yeah.
Yes. And I I I love to read. I read a lot of books. So at that time I was reading Robert Kisaki the rich dad poor dad
you know the the cash flow quadrat. And I was like you know this employment thing is not working for me because I want to make a lot of money. So I these books were directing me to look for a sales job. So when you want to sell, you just look for a sales job. And the easiest job to get in Kenya is actually selling insurance, life insurance.

3:41
Yeah. Easy to get. Extremely hard to do.
Yes. It was the easiest to get.
Yeah.
But um Yeah. So I I walked in. I had bought a policy. So I was just um asking now that I don't have a job cuz usually when I make a decision I don't look at you know what next. I first decide you know make the move.
Uh for example I decided to resign.
Mhm.
And so I resigned.
Mhm.
In fact it's actually my sister who wrote my resignation letter
because I kept you know complaining that I need to resign. So she did it for me on my birthday. So I resigned and then after resigning he's asking what next.
Okay.
Uh so I went to the insurance company to ask what do people do when they lose jobs?

4:32
Yeah.
Um when they have a policy.
Which company? Which insurance company?
Britam. You went to Britam.
I went to Britam cuz where I was working was ground floor. Britam was is it me or first floor?
Okay.
Yes. And the manager like what do you mean? They have many jobs here like Allah. Okay. Um, so he told me and I like but selling insurance not for me. Uh, then he asked me why. I said because I think it's very hard. Then he asked was it hard for you to buy? Said no I wanted I knew I wanted insurance. Say there are many people who want insurance. So anyway that's how I was hired.
Mhm. So you joined So you joined Vam as a saleserson.
As a sales agent.
Yes. And as sales agent, that's commission based work.

5:20
Yes.
That's not salaried work.
It was commission, pure commission.
Mhm.
And um it wasn't easy. Uh so I was trained in February.
Mhm.
Um many years ago.
And the training is how long?
I think it you trained as you're going to say.
Yes. Yes. Yes. It's a train as you go thing.
Yeah. So maybe the first three or so days is when you're fulltime and then you go to the field. Mhm.
And so I go to the field and you know at IAT I was training people who are working KPA you know people with money.
Yes.
So I start calling them
and I asked I tell them now I have left IAT I'm selling insurance and that's the last call I would hear from them.
Mhm.
Cuz you see those are my first contacts.

6:13
Yeah. All my first contact did not pick my calls the second time.
Mhm.
So 3 months no sale. You have no job. So no salary, no sale. Um that time uh you I have a a child. I'm married. So husband is saying, "Hey,
what are you doing?
Hey, what's going on here?
Well, you know, you can stay at home and I can take care of my baby and you."
Yeah. And I'm like, "No, I want to make money."
So the fourth month, I made a few sales. I started earning 5,000 per month. And another 3 months, because now I'm doing COP cuz there's some licensing you need.
Another 3 months I did not sell anything.
What's COP?
Uh certificate of competence.
Okay.
For insurance agents.
Okay. Yes. Okay.

7:05
It's quite a rigorous training.
Mhm.
Yeah. So no other no sale in between there when I'm not making any sale I get a job offer. Uh when I was leaving IAT I was earning 25K.
Now I get a job offer to be an IT manager in a micro finance
and the offer is offering 75K.
So good job.
So I'm like oh so you just leave a job and value goes up.
Okay. So, but then I looked at it and I'm like, "No, this is not the money I want. I don't want the money that is fixed."
So, I told myself, "Unice, can you just be patient
and just keep pushing a little bit?"
Yeah.
By the end of the year, just make a 100,000.
Mhm.
And the following year, January, I was making 100,000.
Okay. By selling insurance,

7:54
actually 100.
So, what did you learn? What did you learn that that made you? Because insurance is is is really difficult to sell.
It is.
I'm one of those people who hung up on the on the insurance sales.
So, I'm just like, if you're calling me, I don't know how are you financially. I'm just like, uh-uh, I'm okay. I'm okay in all aspects of my life. So, how how do you then crack this beast that is selling insurance?
Yeah. So those months that I was not selling I was actually trying to understand when I was training people used to look for me
when I go to church everybody want to greet me
when I said I'm selling insurance nobody
running for the heels
I we are leaving church and even the women who are your friends are just looking for ways to you know do you

8:43
so I asked is it me who is a problem is it the product is it the you know the industry what exactly is the issue?
And doing selfexamination, I knew I'm not the person who is wrong.
Mhm.
So I knew then there could be something
uh about the industry that people do not like.
Yes.
So I started investigating and I realized people don't want to be sold.
Yet in insurance we say that insurance is not bought, it is sold.
But people don't want to be sold. M. So I started asking myself, how can I make them buy?
Mhm.
How can I make people want to buy?
So I started doing trainings. Remember, I'm a trainer.
Yes.
So I started asking, what can I train that will attract people to me? What do they really want?

9:36
Cuz people buy what they want, not what they need.
Yes.
Cuz from the training I had in insurance, I knew that people needed insurance.
Yes.
But they didn't want it.
Yeah. So how do I make people want insurance or what do people want?
I discovered people were struggling with debt, people were struggling to manage their money. People wanted to achieve goals and so I asked how can I, you know, being a trainer, how can I train them on how they can achieve goals? Yes.
And then insurance becomes part of
the way for them to achieve goals. So I started doing something I was calling Friday P.M. am tea and talk.
Mhm.
So, so I call a few people who are listening to me. I tell them please invite a friend come. They buy their tea and I train them on setting goal setting, managing money, managing debts and in the process people started looking for me.

10:35
Mhm.
Yes. So the more I did this, the more people were like if you want oh you're having troubles with your money and I want a unit. So actually is if you ask many Britam Mombasa agents will tell you that they saw people quue
to buy insurance for the first time.
Oh really?
Yes.
So you didn't you didn't tell the people that you're selling them insurance
initially I was telling
you sorted out a need.
Yes.
So they they want financial security. Yes.
They lack this knowledge of and maybe the tools to achieve this financial independence that they're looking for. Yeah.
So you took it from that channel.
Yes.
So is that did that become a widely adopted model?

11:20
So eventually I became among the top sales agents.
Okay.
In the industry.
Yes.
Yes. I was um among top 20 sales agents in the industry. Not just Britain across
the insurance.
The insurance industry. Why? Because now that became my model.
Yeah. I Okay. At that point I wouldn't know what others were doing. But
for me that is that became my model. Actually I realized every time I'm doing business education becomes the model. Educate educate
and then people find what they need and then they buy.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah.
And how long does this take you from the time you joined Britam to
you achieving this this uh ability to say that you're a top saleserson in insurance? How many years? In 3 years I was earning over half a million.

12:12
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Based on insuranceances and this is commission based business. So you must have been selling a lot more to to earn a commission of that amount. Excellent.
Great. So um and you become this insurance salesperson. Yeah. But you transition onwards into Britam leadership.
Yes.
And and and how does that journey look like?
Uhhuh. Now after after those 3 years that was must have been 2014
I realized that I need more.
Mhm.
I need
I I need to grow. So I was feeling I need to be in a strategic leadership.
Mhm.
Um so I went actually to our CEO and I told him
I want to do more.
I want a different job. and he's asking no you should be thinking of how to do 20 million per year

13:09
and I'm telling him no I want another job he asked me which job I told him I want to be in business development
at that time insurance companies did not know anything about uh business development
we used to call it sales managers and all
but banking used to use the title business development so I had copied from the banking yes
and so I had this idea that business development is the way.
I didn't know so much as to what I was going to do, but I knew I needed more.
Yes.
And so he was like, you know, it is be hard to find a job that will afford you.
You know, the kind of money you're making and you can even make more.
Then I was I told him then I've outlived uh my importance in Britam. So

13:58
I may have to leave.
Yes. Uh by God's grace uh there was now another job that was advertised.
Um
actually I went to another CEO I mean another uh leader in in Britam.
I walked in they were leading the micro insurance.
I walked into his office and I asked him why are you guys not hiring a sales manager? M
and he asked me you're already doing so well where you are why do you want to
to move?
Then I told him you do you like mediocre people?
I thought you would want those who are doing well. So you're like okay so go send me your CV. So I sent my CV.
Yeah.
And I forgot.
So later they advertised the position of a sales manager in micro insurance.
I saw it but I did not apply.

14:53
Still in Britam.
In Yes. in Britam. You see Britam has different department.
Yes.
So I saw there the advert but already it was maybe like 3 months after the fire of moving away
so I didn't apply. So he called me he said have you seen that this advert?
Um
have you left Britam and this branch?
No I'm still in Brit still with your sales job sales.
Yeah now I'm a unit manager but in the branch.
Okay. And I told him, "Yeah, I saw it. What about it? Have you applied?" Said, "No, why am I supposed to?" So he said, "Please go ahead and apply." So I applied.
Uh they interviewed and I got a call from the HR that Ununice, you were the best candidate, but we can't afford you.

15:44
Mhm.
And I told her, "Okay, go ahead and hire your second and the third best. You clearly don't want performance. Anyway, they readvertised the job.
They didn't get and later in the year I just get a chat. Hi, I've been thinking are you still interested in this job?
Like of course, but you said you can't afford me.
So, can we meet? So, we met and she asked me what is the last last last amount. So, I wrote a figure. I told her please don't call me if you can't find this money.
For sure. She didn't call me but um the other the leader for the business called me and said unice where are you can we have breakfast we went had breakfast and he told me help me afford you
so that's how I was able to negotiate so I took what they were offering and I asked I requested him to uh you know negotiate for my other commission

16:42
yes
to be added to this
and we I was able to get uh something they were calling override. Was it override? Something valuable pay. Yes.
That for every sale that was coming in I was getting a 0 I can't remember 0.05%
or 0.5% something small.
So you customized your earnings.
Yes. Yes.
Based on your worth.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah. And that's how I got the job.
Okay. So you you started doing entrepreneurial things in in your corporate
Yes. I think I've always been an entrepreneur even inside corporate. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. So that's how I became the country sales manager
for the micro insurance product. Okay. And how does that journey look like in micro insurance because those are radically different products right

17:28
from what you are you you had polished up and you knew and you are making a good commission on.
You now move into this space that first of all the unit numbers are much smaller.
They're smaller.
Yes. And it's a it's a it's a volume game.
Yes.
So how do you then transition? I would assume your tea and and and chart model doesn't quite work in that in that space.
Yes. So after I went to micro insurance, it was a whole different ball game.
And so I realized now I need now to bring my skills for partnerships and collaborations.
Okay.
Why? Because the the the amounts are so small for micro
Mhm.
that going to sell one after the other doesn't make sense. M
so it's about partnerships. How do we partner with banks? How do we partner with HR managers for the

18:21
for the factories you know manufacturing
companies? How do I partner with brokers who have big man you know customers who have many employees? And again I was also in charge of the agents you know the the same
agency model in Britam what we do is that we would um they would do cross selling
so again train the agents to be able to see partnerships not to sell one after the other but how do they bring in partnerships so I got some agents who are actually doing very well like you'll find in Kiricho
Kicho was my best um you know in terms That's because of the tea factories.
The tea factories uh you know the there were a lot of them and the circles. Yeah. So we started partnering with circos and and um factories.

19:14
What do micro insurance products look like? What what are you selling?
No. For example, did you remember a product that was called Linda Jam?
Yes.
Uh that was one of the products that I was supposed to sell.
Yes.
But as soon as I got in
Mhm. In about 6 months we realized it was not viable
and we needed to shut it down.
Yes.
Now please note immediately I came in I usually bring all the energy I have. M
so I had come
I had come in now uh you know it's like almost the whole country knows me
because I was going for example if I go to Mombasa I call the HR managers of the the big companies
and now showing them how this leader jammy works
now 6 months into it uh unice we are shutting this thing down

20:09
and actually people think I'm the one shut it down because I was the only new person
in the department.
Yeah. So we shut that down and what do we do? I go to my boss ask okay so what are we selling
and like you find you know design products. So I became I actually was put in the committee for product design and development and now in the product committee everybody is scared cuz we had lost a lot of money and I'm like no we're going to tweak there was another product that was called
ale
so let's tweak this ale
so that then it fits the customers we have been talking to so it will not deviate so much from the leader
jam
so again in 2 months we out in the market and going back to the customers. Now the thing is on the year that I the previous year they had made huge losses and in the year that year that we even closed in Dejami and started selling this Afia. Now you notice for insurance the secret is sell good business or rather a low claim ratio. So the secret is in the claim the loss ratio it need to be as low as possible.

21:28
Yes,
leader jam had very high loss ratios.
So we have shut that down that means you stopped bleeding that
okay ideally insurance you have to go through the whole year. M
so so long as anybody had bought so we still have the liability but then what we do is sell so much and very quickly so that we are able to pay this
at the same time make some profit. So that year we made some profit.
Okay.
Yes.
With a new design.
With a new design. Yes. Yes. Yes. So
Okay. And do you think that you are able to design a product that was useful because of your close interaction with the customer?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. cuz all the time every time I always begin with
what does the customer want,

22:13
how do they want it?
So it's more of uh they called it the the the human center design thinking.
Yes.
Yeah. So I didn't know what it was called then. I learned that later. But at that I was still doing it.
I was doing it without knowing what it is.
Yeah. And um
so that's how we transform the micro business. today it's it's a big business as we speak.
Okay. So you you you've you've now evolved from a trainer training in computer courses to an insurance sales agent to now
a leader
a leader in in your sector I think it's fair to call you a high-flying insurance corporate you know.
Yeah.
And then what you you give all this up to to to venture out into entrepreneurship. Yeah.

23:04
What what does that decision process looks like? Because you you you you live and work
in Kenya which is a very corporatized market. You know, people earn their stripes in in corporate. People look good through corporate. You know, they have the cars, they have the titles,
but you then wake up and and decide to give this up. So,
what's the thinking behind that?
Okay. Now, thanks to my a lot of financial understanding.
Yes.
Financial literacy because I I studied a lot. You see, you can't teach something that you're not practicing.
Agreed.
So, when I get into a job, I usually know I'm going to lose it.
And there are many ways of losing a job. You could either resign, you could be fired, you could retire, you could die.

23:52
So, every time I walk into a job, I know any of the four
can happen
can happen. M
and most likely the first two.
Yes.
Resigning or being fired.
Yes.
So all the time I I start saving for the day that I leave.
And that's a mindset you live by. I'm walking into this job and it will end.
The day one I know it's ending.
Okay.
So I plan as though I don't have it tomorrow.
Okay.
Yeah. And so whatever I do including the work I put in, I say I'm going to give it my 100%.
Why? because I don't know how long I am here.
Okay.
And I want fast to leave a legacy,
an impact and I live money. I have money.
Okay.
So those are normally my three things.

24:39
So that was very useful. So
uh fast forward uh you know I realized okay now we stabilize the business and I don't like the person I'm reporting to.
Micro.
Yes.
Yes. Uhhuh. And I go to the boss and I say, "Boss, can you separate us?"
M.
And I think it was a hard decision.
So I realized there was hesitance.
M.
Um, so this is December. We are about to go for hol, you know, we we we're going for December.
Yes.
So he didn't respond. And I was like, this means that it's time to leave.
Mhm.
Okay. my mind, my brain said it's time to leave
because if this is a difficult decision and I can't leave, I can't do another month reporting to this one person.
So,

25:36
m
so now it's time to go take leave and go think about your life without Britain.
Okay.
So, I go for holiday. I take a leave and I said for the first time I was on leave and I was I to I do the autoresponder.
Yes,
I usually don't do that because even if I've traveled I believe I can always respond to my emails. So I was I think I don't know whether I'm aaholic
but I always used to respond but on this time I put the autoresponder
and I knew I don't want to respond to emails cuz I want to think about my life without Brit and I was writing this book this one
okay
they sell me this pen
okay
I had started writing it when I was still in Britam why cuz agents whenever I went to train they were like can you mentor me can you coach me so I was creating Mhm.

26:31
A kind of a manual that they can be using while I'm not there. I was asking how can I replicate myself
so that I'm in a thousand places at the same time.
So I thought just write a manual. M
so I just continue now I'm on leave so I continue writing the book
on 31st December that was in 2016
I am writing this I I didn't want to write that day cuz I usually had set target every day I have to do a thousand words on that day I had not written anything and it is headed towards kuruka
so I sit and say what can I write about then I'm like let me Right. What is the future of insurance?
So I start writing given the mobile penetration
uh the you know the young generation that is don't want to see an agent how will insurance look like

27:28
and I start writing that
and then I start researching
and then I see that some of the things I'm writing actually exist like comparison platforms they exist in India in UK. Yes. So why are they why are we not you know doing it?
Yeah.
And and in the morning on 1st of January 2017 I look at all what I've written and I ask and who is going to do this?
And I analyze my SWAT. I do a SWAT.
So Unice you're the most qualified to actually do this
and I decide I'm leaving Brit on 1st of January. Now, Unice, I'm going to ask you a question because as you're talking, it's just occurred to me that
throughout your story thus far.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You have a very strong sense of selfworth.

28:26
Yeah.
You're very clear on who you are, what your value is, and that has manifested.
Yeah.
From the time you left IIT, you're doing training till the time you became an agent. Not many people come into an organization
h to sell insurance and then basically break it apart and put it back together in a different way to achieve more sales.
But you seem to have a very strong sense of clarity
on your worth.
Where does that come from?
This comes from my father.
Okay. U my father constantly reminded me that he used to say you're brilliant.
Yeah.
You're powerful.
You're the best.
Look at you.
There's no better person than you.
Wow. Yeah.
So, I didn't know it worked

29:23
until now that I'm grown. Cuz when I trace back
Yes.
he visited me in the university every week. Okay.
And every week he would come take me out
and remind me, look at you.
You're very brilliant. You see how powerful you are.
And then he would tell me, you know, powerful people don't go t trampling over weak people.
So you take care of the weak because you're strong.
Yeah. So I would attribute all this to my father.
Excellent.
Yeah.
Good. So now you now you've now reached
I've decided. H you've decided because and and so your decision if I get you correctly
is coming from the fact that you've written the book. Yeah,
I was writing the book
and you're in the process of writing the book and in the process of writing the book it dawns on you

30:11
that
someone will actually need to do this.
Yes.
To train around that. Is that is that a fair statement?
To start
to start
a comparison platform.
Okay.
Yes. Why? Because with the
What is a comparison platform? It's um okay this is how I imagined insurance.
Yes.
I asked people like going to the supermarket. Why? Because they want to choose what they like.
Yes.
So when it is bread for example
why do they choose to buy one type of bread and not the other one is because they all there and they have the ability to choose.
Yes.
Now what was lacking in the insurance in my opinion is that people felt sold. Yes.
So I wanted to change. Okay. I've I've been trained that insurance is not sold.

31:01
I mean it's not bought. It is sold.
Yes.
So how can we make insurance bought?
Okay.
And not sold.
Mhm.
So so in this case and I had a privilege of using uh platforms like Booking.com while booking our holidays and all.
So I'm like when I go to booking.com I don't talk to anyone.
Yeah.
I see all the hotels. I see all the flights that I want and I choose.
So how can we make insurance buyable you know in my own language
hence the comparison platform. Hence a compar comparison platform. Okay. And I felt having the technology background understanding both
uh you know the mainstream insurance and the micro insurance.
Yes.
This combination of experience seems to be I'm the most suitable.

31:49
Okay.
To to do the comparison platform. That's how B Smart was born.
Okay.
Yes.
And B Smart was a comparison platform. It is. It still is.
Yes. Yes. It still is. Yeah.
So you you're a you're a Unice, you're a you're a serial entrepreneur. I
So Bismart is still is still is still trading and still is a is is still a and it is what you set it out to be or did it evolve into something else?
Yeah, it's still a comparison today. If you want insurance in Bismmart, you will get
a comparison of various options in the industry. Interesting.
Yes. Yes. Now what we learned is that
unlike booking.com and others customers really don't want their lot of doing it themselves.

32:38
So what they do they just want to leave their email and you send them the comparison. They feel closer. So so we now shifted to okay fine just come to the to the website just leave your contact and we share with you the comparison and help you through the process. Yes. To buy Yeah. Yeah. cuz it's a bit a complex product.
So how do you make money?
We make money when they buy through us.
Okay.
When you buy through bismart then we are paid commission from
so back end it's an agency.
Yes. It's an agency.
Okay. With a comparison front end.
Yes. Okay.
Yes.
Very interesting. But let me ask you a because of your history with insurance.
Let me ask you a question.
Kenya has extremely low insurance penetration. Yes.

33:24
Yeah. We we've been hovering at what 3 4% for a while now.
Yeah.
So isn't that gone up? How how high
with SHA?
Yes. All right.
SH SH SH SH SH SH SH SH SH SH SHA is insurance.
Yes.
The penetration has gone so high 25 million has never been achieved.
Yes.
Yeah. Because
million people
people. Yes.
Okay.
We were hovering about 7 million.
Yes.
Yeah. So now
that's how many times? Seven times. Yes.
At least four.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the penetration of insurance is is becoming more
and because what I like that is happening because we've tried it. Oh my god. It's been a hard journey
to try and develop design products that Kenyans understand and can interact with on a daily basis.

34:16
Especially health. If you look at our story online, you'll see we've been trying to innovate around health.
Yes. We even had a product called um AIA smart.
Yes.
Afia smart was actually was working like SH
yes
capation. So we had partnered with with hospitals and we offering that unfortunately we lost a lot of money and we didn't have more money to keep going.
Okay.
But now when I look at what SHI is doing is basically what we were doing on a very small scale. Yeah. So based on this depth of insurance that we have seen with SH for further deepening because I've always argued with my friends who are in insurance I'm saying if the penetration was that low particularly at the time when we're talking about five six four 5%.

35:07
It was 3%
3%. Yeah. So at 3% I would have thought that
one or two of the major insurance would have been focusing on this 97% opportunity
as opposed to everyone fighting for this 3% cake.
It's easier said than done. It's hard.
And what are the stumbling blocks?
Um
in your opinion? In my opinion and I if you can find my online conversations about insuranceances,
insurance is that thing that people need but they don't want it.
Yes.
Okay. And our culturization
in Kenya is not pro formal insurance. We actually there's insurance that happens cuz the WhatsApp group you join that's an insurance. Yes. So if I'm in as many WhatsApp groups as possible, that's my insurance that in case something happens,

36:00
these guys will sort me out. So we understand insurance at that level.
And so I I used to say we either force it
Mhm.
or you know drive it through what we understand.
Mhm.
So what sh is doing is force
and no choice.
No choice.
Liper. Yes. Or else.
Yeah. Now the way we were trying to do it was trying to uh like the a smart was organized such that you you may not need it cuz you have the other insurance but your relatives your cousins your brothers they call you in case of they have gone to the hospital see they have you as the insurance so they call you and say hospitality and uh we need 20,000 so who is it affecting you the you're the one mitigating that risk. So we had come with up with that

36:58 that you become the principal
but the others become the beneficiaries. So you can put your cousin and their children
uh the other one the other brother with their kids. So it's one group. They don't need to be the same nuclear family, but you as the principal, you the one who will authorize hospitality. When they go to the hospital, you will get an OTP.
Mhm.
Actually, you would get a message asking so and so is on this hospital. Should we treat them? So, it was a yes or no. It's a USSD. It was a USSD. So, you say yes. Then they are treated. So you you the insurer becomes so you can pay for them or they can cha we're calling it chang.
Yes. Yes. Yeah. That way we were trying to align with this mango thing. Yes.

37:50
So that then it is not a complex thing and making you in control of the claims management. Yes.
Why? Because for a long time people feel forced to do you know and they're forced to to do what they don't want to do. They think is insurance or rather the insurance company. So when you authorize or you decline a claim they think is insurance that is refusing to pay you.
Yeah.
So we were making you as the principal the claim manager. What does that mean?
Next time when somebody
you see that year has gone like now the first year we made a lot of loss. M
the next year what we would see is the principal says no remove this one
because they're claiming too much. So we were actually starting to change the behavior.

38:37
Unfortunately we gave up early gave up. We didn't have money.
But I usually say that is an excuse because if we really wanted money we would have gotten but I would say I ran out of steam. I got tired.
Okay.
Yes. Um I
something you pursue in the future. Um I was looking at SH because I'm still interested in the insurance. I've been looking at how SH SH is working.
I see some gaps um that now insure text can fill in. For example,
they don't have a last expense cover.
Yes.
Which is what we are changing in the WhatsApp groups. So I've been thinking and I was telling afred yesterday can you consider designing a last expense that will be sold with SH cuz when Kenyans understand insurance then it will become easy to add

39:32
to layer products.
Yeah. To layer products on it. Yeah. So I see a big opportunity in that. Yeah. Let's come back now to so be smart
sorted comparison company is running today but it's not it's not what we we the basis of even our conversation today.
So now let's come to 20x entrepreneur
limited or entrepreneurs.
So what is 20x
can I just explain why 20x
how did how or let's start with how did it come about? Yeah.
So, in 2021, as I was telling you, after we've lost a lot of money,
uh, I got fatigued.
Uh, some people would call it depression,
others would call it, me, I call it fatigue.
Okay.
Yeah.
And this after signing very good partnerships with Britam, my former employer, we had just signed a mega partnership with them.

40:31
And which company is this now? Eh, be smart. Be smart. Yes. Yes.
And one day I wake up and I can't
I can't work.
Of course, that was caused by I've been on a on the move
through Bismmart, you know, I never rested.
Yes.
And then after the this time I was expectant, I lost the baby and I couldn't recover.
So, and I thought I am useless. M
you know there's nothing I can do that works.
And it was a period of over 8 months of feeling useless.
I wanted to become a monk.
You see I didn't want to die.
Yes.
I knew dying you know I I don't want to die but let me go.
But you go you turn
become a monk when you're useless.
Yes.
What do you do?
In my mind at that time was just go become a monk. M

41:30
and life goes on and probably one day you leave the body or okay I had studied monks
so that period so that's how I actually handed over bismart to my employees who are running it now
okay
good thing because you have had investors before we had systems
so it wasn't difficult to let go the business
so you mean handover you're not involved in bismart today
um I meet them once a week
but you're a shareholder Yes, I am
minority.
I'm still a major shareholder.
But you you got Oh, you you gave you
still my company, but
but but they run it and they have shareholding in it.
Uh not yet. That process is not yet.
Yes. Okay. Okay. But you handed over day-to-day management of the company to the team.

42:19
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.
That's tough to do. It's it's it's easy. I said it's it's something that very few people manage to achieve.
I think I was forced to.
Okay. because I was in
and also they were forced to step up because I told them I can't
I mean I am
if you guys don't need your salaries, you don't need your jobs, just close the company.
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm okay with it. After all, I'm going to be a monk.
Anyway, so fast forward the day I was supposed to go to Kathmandu or rather
I was supposed to go to Kathmandu in March
Yeah.
2022. M
that was my plan.
Yeah.
Then in February I get for the first time I get an idea.
M
I had not gotten an idea for like 8 months

43:09
and I'm an idea person. Every time when I look at something I see opportunities, I see possibilities.
I hadn't seen that in 8 months. Now this time I'm showering in an afternoon and the whole about training training my client enterprises training sales
comes
and I leave the bathroom and as I'm writing it becomes clearer and clearer.
Yeah.
That I need to get back to training.
Mhm.
Remember my first job was training. I was 24 years when I was trained to be a trainer but I ran away from it cuz it was not not making money.
Yes. So now I realize I can actually even do e-learning platform.
Remember my technology?
Yes.
And I call the team the BMAT team and I tell them I have a new idea. It was looking like it's a holiday is in celebration for me and the technology team is the one I called and I told them now I want stop everything else.

44:11
Let's create an e-learning platform for sales training. We are going to be training sales. So I created the um as a trainer I can develop curriculum.
I can yeah and even run it. So I developed the curriculum. We came up with a 5day sales challenge and we are launching on first of March very fast you know nothing. And do you know what? On 1st of March, we had a platform and we had the 5day sales challenge ready and we launched
and as I was taking people through the 5day we had 33 students.
Mhm.
Our first class online. I don't want to see people physically. I want to
I want them to learn. But now the first day the first course I was like I have to do it myself. So that then I I as I see where the gaps are.

45:11
So day one, day two, day three, I'm crying because the feedback I'm getting
people are saying it was remember 2022 people are coming from COVID.
Yes.
But he had made my CV and now through this training I have decided I'm going to sell by 5 days people are saying in 5 days I've been able to sell more than I've sold the last one year. And I'm like how is that even possible? what were you doing you know so I get these stories and I'm like god can I be useful then I remember what my dad told me you're powerful
you're brilliant
yeah so that's how I didn't go to kathmandu that's how 20x entpreneur started why 20x because when I left my job of 25k it took me 3 years to earn half a million that was 20 times

45:59
yes
so I believe that small and micro enterprises can grow 20 times times I believe that sales people can grow their income 20 times. Yes.
Interesting. So what is 20x today?
So 20x it is actually exactly I saw it
in that when water was flowing the idea was flowing
because I saw it as number one is going to be a sales training um organization.
Yes. And in addition to that, a sales people recruitment specifically
just focusing on how do we get the the not so good sales people. Remember, if you're not a good salesp person, you can grow 20 times. Yeah. So, how do we move them from being novice to excellent salespeople? And then those who are already in sales, how do we train them to increase their income 20 times? So our dream is that sales people and because sales I mean entrepreneurship is actually sales can also grow 20 times. That is number one.

47:10 Then over time something I had not seen we started being asked for more training. So when we train sales people call us do you train on leadership? Do you train on customer service? So we got trainers. I'm not good at training anything else. Me I only train at sales. Yeah. Yeah.
So we started getting other trainers to do the other kind of training that corporates are asking for.
Yes.
And then number two, so it is training. Number two is recruitment but specifically for sales people
and number three now we introduce for microenterprise specifically cuz it's a special kind of selling cuz they need systems, they need processes uh and they need products to sell. So we call it business development services. So we have a BDS section.

48:02
So what you're seeing me doing in the counties is called Chanuka Japang now business opportunities.
It is a business development service an initiative by 20X to go to sensitize microenterprise. This one we're going to the you know mama the real mama
crowd just first shift their mindset to see that what they are doing is very important for the country cuz many times we hate what we do or we do it in the hope that somebody will come and remove me from this and I become something else.
So you don't put in your best self
because you're hoping you know You know when my children get educated they will get me out of this.
Yes.
So that kills business because you're not able to see the opportunities as they come. So that's what we are focusing on. How do you shift

49:00
your mindset from looking down first on yourself and then second on your business to seeing possibilities of what you can. And in that uh we help them look at how do you even spot a business opportunity? Maybe what you're doing people don't need it.
Okay.
Yeah. Because people buy what they want.
Yes.
So how do you spot opportunities to know what people want
and this is where we take them through. Just listen to the complaints that people What are people complaining most about? Cuz you could be there just selling your tomato.
Yes.
And people are saying we want tomato sauce.
Yeah. and you you you just want to keep pushing what you know but every time they tell you something what are they saying can you listen so we teach them listening skills

49:50
yes
and then the other thing is we also teach them that when you're in business you cannot ignore government policies because today they might say no more selling of tomatoes
and then you'll find yourself jobless
so how do you listen what what is the you know plan for government because money follows policy. How do you plan around that? How do you tap into such opportunities? For example, we're talking about SHA.
What opportunities do insure takes?
What opportunities should they be looking at? So SHA is already delivering the health insurance. You can't go there and start replicating the same. But what is the gap in the SHA and where do you as an entrepreneur come in?
Yeah.

50:39
Yeah. So those are the things that you're training them and of course some of the people who come in this training. Um they don't have a business per se. They go for karua. How do you increase your value as a karua person so that you move from being paid 500 bob to maybe 600 or to 1,000? By the way we that low.
Yeah. You know now if I start telling you 500 Bob you can't comprehend 500 bob.
Fair enough. But
500 is what they earning. How do they move that? How do you show up on time? How do you offer good customer experience? Cuz you're in business. Karua is business. Yeah. So those are the things we teach them. And then of course the PE the the four Ps,
people, process, product, and profit. How do you see all that? Yeah. But you also have an you also have a a service where you uh outsource sales departments.

51:41
Yes.
Tell me a bit more about that. Yeah.
So this one is whereby we find a very good business and their challenge is sales.
Mhm.
And they they are tired of keeping on hiring and firing but it's a tedious process.
You know establishing a sales department
is not easy. So if and you have a product that people want, you just need sales. For example, it's a fastmoving product. So how can we we can actually hire people who report to us and you you know tell us these are the targets we're meeting these you do the operations bit. We focus on sales. So we will hire, fire, train, uh grow and develop the teams to deliver your target. Yes. Yeah.
And how's that journey been?
That one has not been easy.

52:36
And and it's mainly because of some of the products we have chosen and now we have learned lessons uh that some products and also businesses the business uh model or structure matters cuz one of the clients we took I would say one of the failures that we experienced. So we took a client who is selling products that are not his.
So they are an agent of a company.
Yes.
So what does that mean? So as much as we open a good market for example we we had opened supermarkets or we we had took them in front of supermarkets who are willing to stock the product but they have no capacity to do that.
Why? because a supermarket will need 60 days
credit but this is an agent they're not the manufacturers so those are some of the mistakes we've done taking people who are not in the you know they're not the real owner of the

53:37
yes
business so lessons learned is no only work with manufacturers
we don't want to work with people who are broke
intermediaries
yeah intermediaries yeah yeah
wow you you are really you're really pushing the envelope in a very very interesting way. Um, so as we draw to the end, what does the future look like or what are you seeing? You you are you are in an interesting situation because you're on the ground.
Yeah.
You're now selling products to county governments. You're helping them train their people. So what are you seeing? Where are we going?
Yeah. Um what I see u first of all for me as a country I think we're in a very good place very good space
yes
uh be I usually say beyond the noise forget about the noise

54:27
the noise
forget about the noise
there are beautiful things happening in this country
and my call to each and every entrepreneur is
just just remove the noise and start listening to where opportunities are
um Having been an insurance person, Sha is the best thing and I pray that we don't sabotage it
cuz Kenyans have a way of sabotaging things.
We don't sabotage sa it's for me is the best thing that has happened to this country.
And now for us entrepreneurs is to ask how do we come in into you know
into this emerging ecosystem.
Yes. It's a new ecosystem and truth be told you know that when older ecosystems are closed newer ones comes. So yes, I know there are people who are really struggling because uh the business is not money is not moving where they it used to move. Yes.

55:22
Because now it's moving in a new ecosystem. It's moving in the housing affordable housing. Yes.
And I see a lot of opportunities in that from where I sit because I'm seeing this is when you start asking these guys who are going to move into these spaces, they are going to be numbers.
You know, they will need transport, they will need
they will need repairs.
Yes. and you're a plumber and you're there complaining and saying jobs have been taken from you. But this is the moment cuz when people enter the house
then it is they will call whoever they want. Yes.
So position yourself. I think it's time for upskilling as a country need to start upskilling
upgrading also our mindset.

56:02
Yes.
And look forward to to the I see I see a a bright future.
Excellent.
Yeah. Yeah. Uni Buru H founder B Smart it's called B Smart is it B Smart Insurance
B Smart Insurance which is a
an insurance agency
an insurance agency but what's the word you use compar
comparison platform
a a comparison platform for insurance and of course 20X entrepreneur limited um I'll give you a chance to speak to the audience and just tell them a bit about your business about where they can find you both be smart and and and and 20x
and anything else you feel is relevant for them to know.
Okay. So I will start by first
that story.
Yes.
That I was sharing here is documented here. The my story in the insurance

56:55
sell me this pen.
Yes.
Okay.
So this one it will tell you the story. It's it's not just for insurance people.
Yes. It's for anyone an entrepreneur who want to grow
because you need to understand communication. You need to understand like there are things I learned that I've documented here.
So get a copy of this. We call it the sales bible. Not me.
Where can it be found?
Those who have read
where can it be found?
You can find it on 20xpreneurs.com.
Yes.
Uh or you can find it on Oh, I've forgotten that platform for books.
Which one?
Um
Nura. Which one?
Yeah. Nura. Nura bookto Nura. Yeah, you can find it on
Nura. Yes.
Now, this is the insurance journey.

57:37
Yes.
This is my moment.
Yes.
Of where I was like, I thought I could change the world and clearly,
okay,
I just need to be a monk.
Hits and hits and misses. Diary of an African entrepreneur.
Yes. So, this is quite read that one.
This is quite raw.
Yes.
Um, it leaves people, you know, like with a sober moment. Yes.
Uh because these are the realities that I personally have gone through
becoming broke.
Yes.
Going to places where you're so elevated like can you imagine
I was I sat at the table of Mastercard.
Yes.
Yes. Because I was innovating and then you see it just all those things crumbling down
in in front of you.
Yes.
And you realize how useless you can get

58:27
that you opportunities. Yes.
Um, so that's about the books. Um for if you're looking for a sales team
uh or if you're looking for sales training uh corporate sales training or training on leadership mental wellness customer experience 20xprepreneurs.com we are 20x entpreneur on Facebook on LinkedIn on Instagram on Tik Tok on YouTube we are 20x entpreneur just look for us there You you can follow us also mostly on Fridays we are live. Yes.
On Facebook. Yes.
Uh in our county
conversations like tomorrow business opportunities with microenterprises. Excellent.
Yeah. Um for BSmart again find b.co.k. That's a website. Uh LinkedIn is B Smart. Uh yeah B Smart Insurance. B Smart Insurance on LinkedIn. be smart insurance everywhere.

59:32
Excellent.
Yes. And for me, do you want to follow me? For me,
I'm sure they do. Yeah.
Uh Facebook, um Unice Miner on Facebook, LinkedIn, uh Unice Buru on Instagram.
Excellent. So, ladies and gentlemen, there you have it. Junismu a very interesting conversation about building businesses about the challenges that come with businesses building businesses in this environment of ours but all along espouses what what we're about on this podcast which is African excellence so look her up in in the contacts provided and we look forward to seeing you on our next episode thank you very [Music]